Venting…dentist office stuff.

[daisy2013]

Good for you and the firm you're at. I don't really care what your practices are for your clients or how you create your files.

If a client asks to change the way we list them, of course we would change it, because..... It doesn't matter. I'll say it again since you probably couldn't be bothered to read all the replies, if it's an existing female client that gets married, she stays as the first listed (taxpayer) and hubby is listed as the spouse. Why? Because it's easier that way since she's already in the system and adding a spouse is much easier. If they are new clients, our default is husband first, then wife. Just like your firm has a default putting who the caller is first, that's our default.

Sorry a few of the posters are so offended by that. It's really not that big of deal.

You also said your stuff gets “confused” when the woman is listed first which indicates you need to better train your staff. What do you do with a same sex couple? Must be total pandemonium.

And then of course this chestnut

“I can just imagine the looks I'd get asking a client, if they have a preference who is listed first and who is second ”

You have decided it “difficult” and laughable to inquire if your client has a preference.

 

[HopperFan]

Sorry a few of the posters are so offended by that. It's really not that big of deal.

It doesn't matter to you, and your firm.

It does matter to many people, and is a big deal to them.

kymom99​

My goofy SIL who is in her 60s insists on sending cards addressed to Mrs. John Doe. . And to my son it was Master Bob Doe. What the heck.

Well, I've been hating on that reference for 40+ years ...
..... I would have to find some kind of reverse comeback ...

 

[TAX GUY]

...and laughable to inquire if your client has a preference.

Because it is

 

[TAX GUY]

It doesn't matter to you, and your firm.

It does matter to many people, and is a big deal to them.

And those that it bothers will be sure to complain when the completed returns are done, I'm sure. Odd thing is, of all the ones we've done, not one person complained or asked/demanded it be changed. Weird.

 

[cobright]

Not sure what the big deal is. Listing your husband first isn't a jab at you, just their in house practice. We do the same in our office (CPA firm). We typically list husband first (as taxpayer) and wife second (spouse). It's not because we are trying to insult women, but our internal practice is that way, and has been that way. When we all look at documents and returns, "taxpayer" will be associated with hubby's docs. It means nothing to anyone other than within our office.

Your rant comes off as more of a reason on why you want to switch dentists, which if that's the case, just switch.

If you don’t think this is a jab, just see what happens when you switch it up and list the woman as primary even if he’s the breadwinner.

 

[shh]

The females in the office will have comments about bring tripped up because, wait for it...... the female was listed as the taxpayer!

We're on the same insurance and our dentist maintains two separate accounts. Seems like each person should have their own relationship with a health provider...I've never seen a "shared" account before.

But as far as the IRS and taxes, TaxGuy is NOT wrong.

As much as we women resent assumptions of male as primary, woman as "spouse", it can save IRS headaches to do it that way. I'm the high earner, but female. I'm listed as "spouse" vs primary. My CPA advises to file this way because the IRS still thinks it's 1952 and gets confused otherwise. When the IRS gets confused, it's usually painful for the taxpayer.

He said when a few clients reversed it, they had to waste time correcting IRS mistakes. This was a few years ago when you could reach the IRS in a reasonable timeframe to fix issues!

In our post-COVID world, you rarely get a human without a 2-3 hr wait. They're 24 months behind on mail: whatever you send will sit in a huge pile unread. No appts in many areas.

It's annoying, but I choose my battles - and try not to fight the IRS. My goal is to pay what I owe and minimize interaction. If that means "secondary" status for me on a paper return, I'll take that over the alternative.

 

[Disneychick13]

I had to look because I had no idea, but apparently the account at my dentist’s office is a shared account with me and my husband, My name is at the top of the receipt/statement even if it was my husband’s visit. We don’t have dental insurance so that is not a consideration. He is the primary household income earner. I would be shocked if my husband noticed or cared that his name is not at the top of the statement.

It seems like the biggest problem with the OP is the fact that their last name was incorrect. I mean that seems like it could cause all kinds of headaches with insurance filings. No excuse for that. But who is listed as the “primary”? I don’t know but as a previous poster said….seems like that wouldn’t be the hill I would choose to die on. But everyone has their thing I guess. My take- if you don’t like the dental practice then you should switch to another one.

 

[Turn the Page]

We're on the same insurance and our dentist maintains two separate accounts. Seems like each person should have their own relationship with a health provider...I've never seen a "shared" account before.

But as far as the IRS and taxes, TaxGuy is NOT wrong.

As much as we women resent assumptions of male as primary, woman as "spouse", it can save IRS headaches to do it that way. I'm the high earner, but female. I'm listed as "spouse" vs primary. My CPA advises to file this way because the IRS still thinks it's 1952 and gets confused otherwise. When the IRS gets confused, it's usually painful for the taxpayer.

He said when a few clients reversed it, they had to waste time correcting IRS mistakes. This was a few years ago when you could reach the IRS in a reasonable timeframe to fix issues!

In our post-COVID world, you rarely get a human without a 2-3 hr wait. They're 24 months behind on mail: whatever you send will sit in a huge pile unread. No appts in many areas.

It's annoying, but I choose my battles - and try not to fight the IRS. My goal is to pay what I owe and minimize interaction. If that means "secondary" status for me on a paper return, I'll take that over the alternative.

You do NOT want to have to fight the IRS. That is the headache to end all headaches.

A few years back my mom did our taxes like she did every year and handed me the paper returns to sign and mail in. She wouldn't efile because it would cost a few dollars and she is notoriously cheap. I noticed on the forms that the kids' social security numbers were redacted but didn't think anything of it and signed them and mailed them in.

Holy wah what a mess. This was 2020 so not only were our taxes messed up but the IRS was way behind so it took months and months to get it fixed not to mention we didn't get the appropriate amount of stimulus payments because it was based off the tax return that was incorrect and I am not at all convinced the IRS won't try to give us even more stimulus money back on our tax return this year. I actually tried to argue with them that they had given us too much at one point but they insisted. I don't know.

Moral of the story is, spent the $40 and efile. It makes everything SO much easier in case there is a problem. And it's faster.

 

[kymom99]

We're on the same insurance and our dentist maintains two separate accounts. Seems like each person should have their own relationship with a health provider...I've never seen a "shared" account before.

But as far as the IRS and taxes, TaxGuy is NOT wrong.

As much as we women resent assumptions of male as primary, woman as "spouse", it can save IRS headaches to do it that way. I'm the high earner, but female. I'm listed as "spouse" vs primary. My CPA advises to file this way because the IRS still thinks it's 1952 and gets confused otherwise. When the IRS gets confused, it's usually painful for the taxpayer.

He said when a few clients reversed it, they had to waste time correcting IRS mistakes. This was a few years ago when you could reach the IRS in a reasonable timeframe to fix issues!

In our post-COVID world, you rarely get a human without a 2-3 hr wait. They're 24 months behind on mail: whatever you send will sit in a huge pile unread. No appts in many areas.

It's annoying, but I choose my battles - and try not to fight the IRS. My goal is to pay what I owe and minimize interaction. If that means "secondary" status for me on a paper return, I'll take that over the alternative.

Our tax person does this as well. Consistently. It also helps that then no one signs on the wrong line. If it’s a joint return the front desk knows the husband is line 1 and wife line 2. I have no problem with this. It prevents mistakes.

Now State Farm listing my husband first in every insurance card even if his name is not on the vehicle title. That I have a problem with.

 

[ronandannette]

If you don’t think this is a jab, just see what happens when you switch it up and list the woman as primary even if he’s the breadwinner.

I doubt there are many men anywhere that would even notice, let alone be perturbed by it. Would you make a fuss if it were you?

 

[amylevan]

If you don’t think this is a jab, just see what happens when you switch it up and list the woman as primary even if he’s the breadwinner.

Are there really people who care about this stuff? I don’t see how anyone who is secure with who they are and who they are within their relationship would care what order others list them.

FWIW, my DH is listed first on almost everything because that’s just what I tend to do when I’m filling out paperwork. (And yes, 99% of the time it’s me taking care of things and he’s just signing when told to.). That said, our financial advisor has me listed first. I assume that’s because he deals with me and wants to be sure to remember that when he makes his quarterly phone calls.

 

[ronandannette]

Are there really people who care about this stuff? I don’t see how anyone who is secure with who they are and who they are within their relationship would care what order others list them.

FWIW, my DH is listed first on almost everything because that’s just what I tend to do when I’m filling out paperwork. (And yes, 99% of the time it’s me taking care of things and he’s just signing when told to.). That said, our financial advisor has me listed first. I assume that’s because he deals with me and wants to be sure to remember that when he makes his quarterly phone calls.

My DH is in sales and I just discussed this with him. First off, it was hard to get him to understand even what the question/issue is. When we finally got it straight, he said he fills out his contracts with the “primary” being whichever member of the couple seems to be driving the transaction and is likely to continue to have the most active role in the process. He always asks which/whose phone number and email address is best to contact first and goes from there.

 

[Kestryl]

I truly don’t remember- do we list sex/gender on tax returns? (I just glanced through a 1040 and didn’t see a box for that.) What do same sex married couples do? What if someone has a “gender neutral” name like Jamie or Riley? Or a name often associated with a different gender (ex a man with the name Shannon)?

 

[amylevan]

I truly don’t remember- do we list sex/gender on tax returns? (I just glanced through a 1040 and didn’t see a box for that.) What do same sex married couples do? What if someone has a “gender neutral” name like Jamie or Riley? Or a name often associated with a different gender (ex a man with the name Shannon)?

My understanding is that with the IRS it really doesn’t matter which gender is listed first. The problem can occur if it changes year to year. So, in other words, if the husband is listed first, they should always be listed first. Ditto for the wife. Gender, gender neutral names, same sex marriages, etc all do not matter as long as you are consistent from year to year.

 

[AppleDumpling]

But as far as the IRS and taxes, TaxGuy is NOT wrong.

As much as we women resent assumptions of male as primary, woman as "spouse", it can save IRS headaches to do it that way. I'm the high earner, but female. I'm listed as "spouse" vs primary. My CPA advises to file this way because the IRS still thinks it's 1952 and gets confused otherwise. When the IRS gets confused, it's usually painful for the taxpayer.

For the record, the IRS does not require the husband to be listed as primary taxpayer. What they do prefer is consistency from year to year. So the first time you file a joint return as a married couple, you have the choice of whose name to list first. After that, it makes it easier for them if you list the names in the same order as the prior year. You’re not expressly prohibited from changing the order at any time, however, doing so will likely cause delays in the processing.

I truly don’t remember- do we list sex/gender on tax returns? (I just glanced through a 1040 and didn’t see a box for that.) What do same sex married couples do? What if someone has a “gender neutral” name like Jamie or Riley? Or a name often associated with a different gender (ex a man with the name Shannon)?

Gender is not included. Yes, there are gender neutral names, as well as many foreign names that most Americans would be unable to identify as male or female. And of course same-sex marriage is now legal. It doesn’t matter. Name and social security number only are used for identification purposes.

*Edited - I see the poster above said the same while I was typing.

 

[TAX GUY]

I truly don’t remember- do we list sex/gender on tax returns? (I just glanced through a 1040 and didn’t see a box for that.) What do same sex married couples do? What if someone has a “gender neutral” name like Jamie or Riley? Or a name often associated with a different gender (ex a man with the name Shannon)?

Everyone truly is just a number with the IRS. Everything is tracked by SS number. Because there are certain caps/limits on some items within a tax return, they need to be coded by taxpayer and/or spouse, so calculations can properly be allocated. It's not a gender or power trip, it's just a method to keep things properly aligned and allocated. Being listed as taxpayer or spouse has no impact, other than keeping income/deductions flowing to the proper person. Some file an injured/innocent spouse form WITH a tax return. If the other has outstanding obligations or tax liability, but file a joint return now, the "innocent" spouse can still claim their refund based on their earning, deductions and/or credits. If data is misrepresented because who is listed where flip flops from year to year or is something other than a typical/normal practice, then mistakes can and will happen.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Are there really people who care about this stuff? I don’t see how anyone who is secure with who they are and who they are within their relationship would care what order others list them.

FWIW, my DH is listed first on almost everything because that’s just what I tend to do when I’m filling out paperwork. (And yes, 99% of the time it’s me taking care of things and he’s just signing when told to.). That said, our financial advisor has me listed first. I assume that’s because he deals with me and wants to be sure to remember that when he makes his quarterly phone calls.

I'd care if a business (business practice is what we're talking about) made a poor assumption without asking and attitudes account for a lot. Antiquated feelings don't always mix with good business practices.

I don't care if a place asks me "who would you want as the primary account holder?" Or "who is considered the head of household" I would care if the place never even thinks it's possible for me the woman to be that and assume the man, my husband is and doesn't care to ask nor think it's worth their time. Security in a relationship has zero to do with that. My husband thinks it's stupid how tax guy's place goes about stuff but we're modern progressive enough thinking people.

It's not about who is listed first. The why behind it is the discussion with. No amount of "but I the woman am listed first on this other thing so there" is going to make the point if you're missing the point.

 

[amylevan]

I'd care if a business (business practice is what we're talking about) made a poor assumption without asking and attitudes account for a lot. Antiquated feelings don't always mix with good business practices.

I don't care if a place asks me "who would you want as the primary account holder?" Or "who is considered the head of household" I would care if the place never even thinks it's possible for me the woman to be that and assume the man, my husband is and doesn't care to ask nor think it's worth their time. Security in a relationship has zero to do with that. My husband thinks it's stupid how tax guy's place goes about stuff but we're modern progressive enough thinking people.

It's not about who is listed first. The why behind it is the discussion with. No amount of "but I the woman am listed first on this other thing so there" is going to make the point if you're missing the point.

Not missing the point, apparently you’ve missed mine. My point is why should someone care who is listed first? We’ve gone so far passed modern progressive thought that we’ve moved into getting annoyed or offended over stupid things. A company needs standards. If that policy is to list the male first, why on earth should that offend me?? If that policy is to ask me who I want listed first, my question is going to be, does it matter? And if they say no, then why did they bother asking? Who cares!?!?!

 

[TAX GUY]

My husband thinks it's stupid how tax guy's place goes about stuff but we're modern progressive enough thinking people.

You didn't bother to read the reason why?

Everyone truly is just a number with the IRS. Everything is tracked by SS number. Because there are certain caps/limits on some items within a tax return, they need to be coded by taxpayer and/or spouse, so calculations can properly be allocated. It's not a gender or power trip, it's just a method to keep things properly aligned and allocated. Being listed as taxpayer or spouse has no impact, other than keeping income/deductions flowing to the proper person. Some file an injured/innocent spouse form WITH a tax return. If the other has outstanding obligations or tax liability, but file a joint return now, the "innocent" spouse can still claim their refund based on their earning, deductions and/or credits. If data is misrepresented because who is listed where flip flops from year to year or is something other than a typical/normal practice, then mistakes can and will happen.

No one said a female can't or isn't able to listed as the taxpayer (head of household has a completely different meaning regarding taxes so I won't drag that into this). Curious, did your tax professional ask how you wanted to be listed on your returns? How are you listed? Unless you're a "self prepared" and put yourself first (as many self prepared persons do)?

 

[atxbound]

Are there really people who care about this stuff? I don’t see how anyone who is secure with who they are and who they are within their relationship would care what order others list them.

FWIW, my DH is listed first on almost everything because that’s just what I tend to do when I’m filling out paperwork. (And yes, 99% of the time it’s me taking care of things and he’s just signing when told to.). That said, our financial advisor has me listed first. I assume that’s because he deals with me and wants to be sure to remember that when he makes his quarterly phone calls.

I care. I've had experiences where mortgage companies didn't speak to me because I wasn't listed as first on the account . Then the school alumni charitable requests for the spouse (not me). Things listed first are usually given more importance than those that follow.
I'm proud to be a wife but that's not all I am. Having my name be second makes me feel more like a possession than a person at times.
Than again, I grew up with strong females that greatly encouraged me to always be able to support myself with a job and credit. One broke the abuse cycle and it was far harder than it should have been to establish themselves with laws against females and credit at the time.