f1rstxlas7
Mouseketeer
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2022
I actually originally posted this a couple days ago over on the r/WaltDisneyWorld subreddit and it gained considerable attention and discussion, so I wanted to share some findings with you all too.
tl;dr with Tips/Strategy at the bottom
Understandably so, Disney is rather opaque when it comes to the logistics & details of their coveted Genie+ service. The rules of the system are fairly clear, as are the rules governing Advanced Dining Reservations(ADRs) and ILL/IAS passes. Guests must play by these rules, as they're intended, to ensure fair play and enjoyment for all- or at least that's the idea. Unfortunately, because many details are left in the 'grey stuff area' (sorry, I had to), it takes an impassioned community to formulate strategies for more efficient ride planning, proper ADR structuring around limited reservation times, and guesswork as to how these things culminate together for your park day.
The reason for this thread is simple: The Genie+, ILL/IAS, and Advanced Dining Reservation systems are a frustrating experience, but there's some misinformation about them that I'd like to clear up (and also theorize a bit about too!).
Misconception: Disney "releases" more ride return times at 7:10am and periodically throughout the day. The best example of this is when park goers are speaking about how Rise of the Resistance sells out almost immediately.
Reality: This is only partly true. Disney will adjust Genie+ & ILL/IAS availability throughout the day depending on demand and that has been noted many times before. If you'd like to look at the evidence that supports this claim, thrill-data.com is a great resource. This much is true, as is people cancelling their reservation times which then returns those times back into the general 'inventory' of time slots available for the ride. It happens, but is still a small percentage of total Genie+ reservations where this occurs(plus, it can't even happen with ILL reservations because they're non-refundable.)
Here's where what I'm calling the 'invisible' or 'hidden' cart system comes into play... It's 7am on the dot and you refresh Hollywood Studios' tip board. You've already pinned Slinky Dog Dash and Rise of the Resistance to the top and morning time slots are available so you click on Slinky Dog to try for that first. You get into the checkout process and are selecting your party, go to the next screen, and your app crashes! Quickly, you restart the app, see that you didn't not complete the booking process, and go back to the Tip Board to try and get Slinky Dog except... the return time isn't until 5pm. Instead, you try for an 11am Rise of the Resistance time, go through the checkout process, AND THE SAME THING HAPPENS!! Again, you quickly restart your app, refresh the Tip Board and both are sold out by 7:05am. You are devastated and the only hope you have is to try rope dropping one of these or to continuously refresh throughout the day and pray it works out. But what if I told you that both Slinky Dog Dash and Rise are actually still just sitting in your cart waiting for you to buy them, without any rush at all?
What does this have anything to do with Advanced Dining Reservations?? Believe it or not, the Disney app and website are really just ecommerce platforms. They utilize a cart/checkout system to provide us a way to easily make purchases. Dining Reservations operate under the exact same cart system that Genie+ & ILL/IAS systems do. When you wake up early, 60 days out from your trip, you experience the exact same system in place. There are multiple time slots of 'inventory' for each restaurant- when you click on one, it gets added to your 'cart' for checkout. I want to be clear here, and it's also going to be important for a later point about guest relations, this is an entirely separate cart system from what you use to purchase Merch, Tickets, or anything else through the Disney site. That's a very clear and durable cart with persistence, this hidden cart system is NOT.
So what does this mean? It means that when you click on an ADR time slot, it gets added to an invisible cart on your account. From here you can either complete the checkout process for reservation, cancel it, or just walk away. The reason this works for guests and Disney alike is that it gives people a chance to go get their credit card, put in their personal info, and safely reserve a time slot without it being picked off by someone else who is quicker. How do I know reservations are 'held' by Disney in this way? Go add a dining reservation time to your 'cart', cancel it, and check to see if it's immediately available again OR if it's available in... 10 minutes. This test is most applicable when a restaurant doesn't have a lot of "inventory" for certain time slots. For example, most restaurants in Disney World are set up for tables of 4 so those time slots will typically stick around a bit longer and might not disappear because there are plenty of them.
What does 10 minutes have to do with anything? If you recall, I mentioned above that people believe Disney "releases" more return times at 7:10am for the most popular rides- this is not true. What is actually happening is that you are adding these ride reservations to your 'hidden cart', but if your app crashes then you have no way to get back to them! They still exist in your account for 10 minutes, but the cart is functioning as though it's inactive because you can't progress(because you can't get back to it) and therefore will return these times back into the general 'inventory'. And guess what time the majority of the inventory is returned. Yeap... 7:10am after phones & apps started to crash during the checkout process right around 7am.
How Disney rectifies this system's shortcomings on behalf of us Guests: Ever tried to get one of these rides at 7am, your app crashed, and so you went to Guest Services so that they could reinstate the passes? Yeah... they're not doing it because they want to keep you happy(although they do), they're doing it because they can see the very same cart you created and tried to checkout with. Technobabble bit: Each cart on the Disney website has a cartID. This is a common feature amongst eCommerce platforms so that retailers can keep track of each visitor's shopping stages. What Disney is actually doing here with Genie+, ILL/IAS, and ADRs is actually very simple. They provide a unique cartID to when you add a ride to your cart, track the shopping stage of it, and keep track of it's expiration time. When you go to Guest Services, they can easily look up the cartID, see what you added at what time, and can provide you with passes despite the technical problems.
What this means for you/tl;dr:
Tip #1: If you missed out on a ride at 7am, start refreshing immediately at 7:10am again. The 'expired' inventory will be released back into the available inventory over the course of the next few minutes. You could honestly keep this up and try again at 7:20 for a few minutes as well because people will still have trouble with their app crashing at the 7:10am mark.
Tip #2: If you click on a Dining Reservation time, cancel it, realize that you actually do want it, but don't see it available anymore... wait 10 minutes and refresh! You can apply the same tip above to this as well. When your 60 day mark comes around, while the dining reservation release time fluctuates, it might still help to refresh 10-20 minutes after they've been released because people do cancel.
Tip #3: Fiddle Faddle during the day. Molly from AllEars talks about how effective refreshing the Tip Board can be, but many people do not realize it's helpful in large part due to the technical problems that the app experiences.
Tip #4: If you successfully clicked on a return time, you can just go to Guest Relations, mention it to them, and they should be able to look things up to get everything righted.
tl;dr with Tips/Strategy at the bottom
Understandably so, Disney is rather opaque when it comes to the logistics & details of their coveted Genie+ service. The rules of the system are fairly clear, as are the rules governing Advanced Dining Reservations(ADRs) and ILL/IAS passes. Guests must play by these rules, as they're intended, to ensure fair play and enjoyment for all- or at least that's the idea. Unfortunately, because many details are left in the 'grey stuff area' (sorry, I had to), it takes an impassioned community to formulate strategies for more efficient ride planning, proper ADR structuring around limited reservation times, and guesswork as to how these things culminate together for your park day.
The reason for this thread is simple: The Genie+, ILL/IAS, and Advanced Dining Reservation systems are a frustrating experience, but there's some misinformation about them that I'd like to clear up (and also theorize a bit about too!).
Misconception: Disney "releases" more ride return times at 7:10am and periodically throughout the day. The best example of this is when park goers are speaking about how Rise of the Resistance sells out almost immediately.
Reality: This is only partly true. Disney will adjust Genie+ & ILL/IAS availability throughout the day depending on demand and that has been noted many times before. If you'd like to look at the evidence that supports this claim, thrill-data.com is a great resource. This much is true, as is people cancelling their reservation times which then returns those times back into the general 'inventory' of time slots available for the ride. It happens, but is still a small percentage of total Genie+ reservations where this occurs(plus, it can't even happen with ILL reservations because they're non-refundable.)
Here's where what I'm calling the 'invisible' or 'hidden' cart system comes into play... It's 7am on the dot and you refresh Hollywood Studios' tip board. You've already pinned Slinky Dog Dash and Rise of the Resistance to the top and morning time slots are available so you click on Slinky Dog to try for that first. You get into the checkout process and are selecting your party, go to the next screen, and your app crashes! Quickly, you restart the app, see that you didn't not complete the booking process, and go back to the Tip Board to try and get Slinky Dog except... the return time isn't until 5pm. Instead, you try for an 11am Rise of the Resistance time, go through the checkout process, AND THE SAME THING HAPPENS!! Again, you quickly restart your app, refresh the Tip Board and both are sold out by 7:05am. You are devastated and the only hope you have is to try rope dropping one of these or to continuously refresh throughout the day and pray it works out. But what if I told you that both Slinky Dog Dash and Rise are actually still just sitting in your cart waiting for you to buy them, without any rush at all?
What does this have anything to do with Advanced Dining Reservations?? Believe it or not, the Disney app and website are really just ecommerce platforms. They utilize a cart/checkout system to provide us a way to easily make purchases. Dining Reservations operate under the exact same cart system that Genie+ & ILL/IAS systems do. When you wake up early, 60 days out from your trip, you experience the exact same system in place. There are multiple time slots of 'inventory' for each restaurant- when you click on one, it gets added to your 'cart' for checkout. I want to be clear here, and it's also going to be important for a later point about guest relations, this is an entirely separate cart system from what you use to purchase Merch, Tickets, or anything else through the Disney site. That's a very clear and durable cart with persistence, this hidden cart system is NOT.
So what does this mean? It means that when you click on an ADR time slot, it gets added to an invisible cart on your account. From here you can either complete the checkout process for reservation, cancel it, or just walk away. The reason this works for guests and Disney alike is that it gives people a chance to go get their credit card, put in their personal info, and safely reserve a time slot without it being picked off by someone else who is quicker. How do I know reservations are 'held' by Disney in this way? Go add a dining reservation time to your 'cart', cancel it, and check to see if it's immediately available again OR if it's available in... 10 minutes. This test is most applicable when a restaurant doesn't have a lot of "inventory" for certain time slots. For example, most restaurants in Disney World are set up for tables of 4 so those time slots will typically stick around a bit longer and might not disappear because there are plenty of them.
What does 10 minutes have to do with anything? If you recall, I mentioned above that people believe Disney "releases" more return times at 7:10am for the most popular rides- this is not true. What is actually happening is that you are adding these ride reservations to your 'hidden cart', but if your app crashes then you have no way to get back to them! They still exist in your account for 10 minutes, but the cart is functioning as though it's inactive because you can't progress(because you can't get back to it) and therefore will return these times back into the general 'inventory'. And guess what time the majority of the inventory is returned. Yeap... 7:10am after phones & apps started to crash during the checkout process right around 7am.
How Disney rectifies this system's shortcomings on behalf of us Guests: Ever tried to get one of these rides at 7am, your app crashed, and so you went to Guest Services so that they could reinstate the passes? Yeah... they're not doing it because they want to keep you happy(although they do), they're doing it because they can see the very same cart you created and tried to checkout with. Technobabble bit: Each cart on the Disney website has a cartID. This is a common feature amongst eCommerce platforms so that retailers can keep track of each visitor's shopping stages. What Disney is actually doing here with Genie+, ILL/IAS, and ADRs is actually very simple. They provide a unique cartID to when you add a ride to your cart, track the shopping stage of it, and keep track of it's expiration time. When you go to Guest Services, they can easily look up the cartID, see what you added at what time, and can provide you with passes despite the technical problems.
What this means for you/tl;dr:
Tip #1: If you missed out on a ride at 7am, start refreshing immediately at 7:10am again. The 'expired' inventory will be released back into the available inventory over the course of the next few minutes. You could honestly keep this up and try again at 7:20 for a few minutes as well because people will still have trouble with their app crashing at the 7:10am mark.
Tip #2: If you click on a Dining Reservation time, cancel it, realize that you actually do want it, but don't see it available anymore... wait 10 minutes and refresh! You can apply the same tip above to this as well. When your 60 day mark comes around, while the dining reservation release time fluctuates, it might still help to refresh 10-20 minutes after they've been released because people do cancel.
Tip #3: Fiddle Faddle during the day. Molly from AllEars talks about how effective refreshing the Tip Board can be, but many people do not realize it's helpful in large part due to the technical problems that the app experiences.
Tip #4: If you successfully clicked on a return time, you can just go to Guest Relations, mention it to them, and they should be able to look things up to get everything righted.
