Helpppppp not sitting together? Sort of budget related

[KBoopaloo]

You people are so weird. If you can't afford prefered seating, a child under 13 should just be alone? How is that fair for the CHILD? Let's spend some more time judging people with tight budget and punishing their children for it.

Clearly, airline should book any child with a parent. If no two seats next to each other are available, they shouldnt let the booking go through. It's not rocket science.

I hate that mentally. If we lived in a world where the money you own was entirely based on merit and effort, I might get it. But we don't. You're lucky you can spare dollars for those upgrades. Other people can't or if they do, they'll have to cut somewhere else along the line.

Also, it is entirely true that airline DO NOT let you see all available seats.

The feature to pay to choose seat shouldn't even exist. If a family is split and you feel pressured into giving up a seat you "paid for", you should be mad at the airline who didnt block at least two seats together.

I can't always spare the extra for upgrades. I am never going to be willing to pay for a truly first class or business class seat even if I could afford it. So if I am booking a trip and trying to find a flight and find one that only has first class or business class seats left, guess what? I am not going on that flight. And that is my choice.

I do think there is a genuine issue sometimes with airlines moving people's pre-selected seats and breaking up families and I would agree 100% that is the airlines' issue. Or overselling a flight. However, this particular situation is not that. It appears that the OP purchased tickets at the lowest possible fare. The reason this is the lowest possible fare is BECAUSE it does not allow you to pre-select your seats. When you purchase these rates, you know and accept what the restrictions are. You are essentially allowing the airline to make YOU the person they move around arbitrarily if necessary because you are exchanging the right to choose a desirable seat for a desirable price instead. It is a choice.

It stinks that airlines now have all of these different fare categories but part of the reason they are able to offer the much lower fares with so many restrictions is because they are making money elsewhere via all of the upgraded fees and higher fares. What if they eliminated all of the upcharge options and just made every seat the same price? All of the prices would likely go up to cover the lost revenue from the upcharges. So now there may not be any fares at all that are affordable for some tighter budgets. Would that be a better option?

And again, let me say that if there are unsold seats on this flight, then I absolutely think the airline should do what they can to move things around to let the OP 's family sit together. I am not a heartless jerk who thinks a 3 year old should have to sit alone when there is an obvious solution. However, there is not always an obvious solution. Sometimes in these situations someone else is going to be inconvenienced to make something work for the OP. And while that is sometimes unavoidable and the fault of the airline (due to equipment changes, flight delays, overselling, etc), in this case that does not appear to be true.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Can I just say I'm very confused.

Now granted I haven't flown Delta since 2013 but I'm set to fly out on Monday to Hawaii on them.

I understand that since I last flew with them they adjusted their booking classes and added the basic one where you don't get to select your seat. That part I understand but the parts I'm not understanding is coming from some posters saying you paid extra to pick your seat. Well for all 5 flights (From KCI to LAX to HNL and on the way home HNL, LAX, MSP, KCI) none even had Basic as the booking class the lowest was Main Cabin for all 5 flights which is what we picked. I technically didn't pay extra to select my seat because Basic wasn't even an option (though admittedly we would have book Main Cabin regardless). So would the OP's flights then have the Basic booking class and the OP actually booked that booking class through Expedia in order for it to say "seating assigned at gate?"

I can say this that since we booked in the middle of June they actually did change our seats on our last flight within the last week and a half from MSP to KCI even though we picked our seats. We didn't pay attention to the aircraft when we booked so we're a bit perplexed at why the seating was changed..it went from 22A and 22B to 17A and 17B so we're not sure if it was an aircraft change or what-it's not the biggest deal to us though because we are still sitting together in the aisle with only 2 seats. The interesting thing is we have two different reservations-one for me as reward travel and one for my husband. We were moved together so my only guess is they either saw that the Delta Skymiles member number was the same for both tickets or they saw our names were nearly the same (mine is hypenated as you can see by my name on the DIS).

ETA: Spoke to my husband and he had a hunch too. He wondered if maybe the OP booked too late and booking 3rd party could also be interferring with it. He said it's common for the airlines to hold back a few seats for last minute people, preferred members (part of an affinity group like SWA A-List or something like that), and that you might see seats as unavailable when you are selecting your seats but they actually haven't been truly sold yet. He said that it could have been that the person was guaranteed a seat on the plane but not necessarily together (that reminded me how I used to fly Northwest and Delta back in the day on stand-by due to my step-mom's travel agency discount). He said it's also possible that it was oversold as well (which is common to do nowadays).

 

[KBoopaloo]

Can I just say I'm very confused.

Now granted I haven't flown Delta since 2013 but I'm set to fly out on Monday to Hawaii on them.

I understand that since I last flew with them they adjusted their booking classes and added the basic one where you don't get to select your seat. That part I understand but the parts I'm not understanding is coming from some posters saying you paid extra to pick your seat. Well for all 5 flights (From KCI to LAX to HNL and on the way home HNL, LAX, MSP, KCI) none even had Basic as the booking class the lowest was Main Cabin for all 5 flights which is what we picked. I technically didn't pay extra to select my seat because Basic wasn't even an option (though admittedly we would have book Main Cabin regardless). So would the OP's flights then have the Basic booking class and the OP actually booked that booking class through Expedia in order for it to say "seating assigned at gate?"

I can say this that since we booked in the middle of June they actually did change our seats on our last flight within the last week and a half from MSP to KCI even though we picked our seats. We didn't pay attention to the aircraft when we booked so we're a bit perplexed at why the seating was changed..it went from 22A and 22B to 17A and 17B so we're not sure if it was an aircraft change or what-it's not the biggest deal to us though because we are still sitting together in the aisle with only 2 seats. The interesting thing is we have two different reservations-one for me as reward travel and one for my husband. We were moved together so my only guess is they either saw that the Delta Skymiles member number was the same for both tickets or they saw our names were nearly the same (mine is hypenated as you can see by my name on the DIS).

Truthfully, I don't know. My assumption based on the information she provided was that it was likely a Basic Economy ticket booked through Expedia. The description of Basic Economy includes this sentence:

"If you’re looking for a low fare, your travel plans aren’t likely to change, and you don’t mind where you sit, Basic Economy just may be your ticket."

http://www.delta.com/content/www/en...oard-experience/main-cabin/basic-economy.html

It's entirely possible that she booked another fare class all together and this is a weird situation that comes from booking through Expedia. I will say that the last time I looked for flights via Kayak, the cheapest result for Delta was almost always Basic Economy so when I actually went to the Delta website I realized that the flight would actually be more expensive if I wanted to purchase Main Cabin and be able to choose my seats so I ended up on JetBlue instead and still got a lower rate even paying the upcharge for Even More seats.

 

[KBoopaloo]

Also, I do want to say that I hope the OP was able to work something out so that she was able to get at least two seats together.

The debate in these threads often gets a little more intense than the OPs intend - they are usually just trying to get some advice on how to hopefully end up in a workable situation and I totally get that. I don't have all the details of the OP's situation and my posts are really more of a general observation that everyone should make sure they are purchasing a fare that accommodates their needs. I absolutely hope this OP gets a solution that works well for her (and her son) on her flight!

But I also think it is valid for people to say that flyers really should be making fare purchases based on their actual needs and not just purchasing the cheapest, no frills option and then expecting the airline (and possibly other travelers) to accommodate them when they get on the plane. Don't buy a fare that says "This fare is for you if you don't care where you sit!" in the description and then complain when your seats aren't together. And again, it is not even clear if that is the case for the OP here. Her situation may be a weird glitch of buying third party and not really knowing what the fare restrictions are but it is certainly something everyone should consider when buying airfare.

 

[megster1123]

Can I just say I'm very confused.

Now granted I haven't flown Delta since 2013 but I'm set to fly out on Monday to Hawaii on them.

I understand that since I last flew with them they adjusted their booking classes and added the basic one where you don't get to select your seat. That part I understand but the parts I'm not understanding is coming from some posters saying you paid extra to pick your seat. Well for all 5 flights (From KCI to LAX to HNL and on the way home HNL, LAX, MSP, KCI) none even had Basic as the booking class the lowest was Main Cabin for all 5 flights which is what we picked. I technically didn't pay extra to select my seat because Basic wasn't even an option (though admittedly we would have book Main Cabin regardless). So would the OP's flights then have the Basic booking class and the OP actually booked that booking class through Expedia in order for it to say "seating assigned at gate?"

I can say this that since we booked in the middle of June they actually did change our seats on our last flight within the last week and a half from MSP to KCI even though we picked our seats. We didn't pay attention to the aircraft when we booked so we're a bit perplexed at why the seating was changed..it went from 22A and 22B to 17A and 17B so we're not sure if it was an aircraft change or what-it's not the biggest deal to us though because we are still sitting together in the aisle with only 2 seats. The interesting thing is we have two different reservations-one for me as reward travel and one for my husband. We were moved together so my only guess is they either saw that the Delta Skymiles member number was the same for both tickets or they saw our names were nearly the same (mine is hypenated as you can see by my name on the DIS).

ETA: Spoke to my husband and he had a hunch too. He wondered if maybe the OP booked too late and booking 3rd party could also be interferring with it. He said it's common for the airlines to hold back a few seats for last minute people, preferred members (part of an affinity group like SWA A-List or something like that), and that you might see seats as unavailable when you are selecting your seats but they actually haven't been truly sold yet. He said that it could have been that the person was guaranteed a seat on the plane but not necessarily together (that reminded me how I used to fly Northwest and Delta back in the day on stand-by due to my step-mom's travel agency discount). He said it's also possible that it was oversold as well (which is common to do nowadays).

What's confusing about paying to select your seats? It's become (unfortunately) a common practice on many airlines. Especially the budget ones like Spirit that sell everything a la carte.

On my Delta flight from Detroit to MCO, there were 4 pay classes available. The economy class (that I quoted earlier and does not include preselected seat assignments) and then three additional pay classes above and beyond economy. I paid the higher price per ticket so we could have the larger seats in the area of the plane we wanted and in the seats we wanted. Perhaps you didn't see these choices available on your flight, but that doesn't mean they're not offered.

 

[ConnecticutFlea]

A little off topic.....

I was on Southwest. We had finished boarding and ready to close the door when a family of 4 arrived. They had two young children with them (under 5). The mother was very loud in expressing how Southwest should have waited for them before boarding group B because they had family boarding, and her entire family had to sit together even though they were so late.

The flight attendant announced that people were going to have to give up their seats. It took a while for anyone to volunteer. The family "settled" for one parent to be seated near each child.

 

[SirDuff]

Also, I do want to say that I hope the OP was able to work something out so that she was able to get at least two seats together.

The debate in these threads often gets a little more intense than the OPs intend - they are usually just trying to get some advice on how to hopefully end up in a workable situation and I totally get that. I don't have all the details of the OP's situation and my posts are really more of a general observation that everyone should make sure they are purchasing a fare that accommodates their needs. I absolutely hope this OP gets a solution that works well for her (and her son) on her flight!

But I also think it is valid for people to say that flyers really should be making fare purchases based on their actual needs and not just purchasing the cheapest, no frills option and then expecting the airline (and possibly other travelers) to accommodate them when they get on the plane. Don't buy a fare that says "This fare is for you if you don't care where you sit!" in the description and then complain when your seats aren't together. And again, it is not even clear if that is the case for the OP here. Her situation may be a weird glitch of buying third party and not really knowing what the fare restrictions are but it is certainly something everyone should consider when buying airfare.

Agreed. And, I cannot speak for anyone else, but though I'm clearly in the "people need to take some responsibility for themselves" camp, I am likely to move if asked (though I admit that threatening me with "move or sit beside my airsick/loud/clingy child" will generally backfire). I also did provide concrete suggestions to help the OP. Gnashing of teeth about how Delta shouldn't have let this happen and that it is all the evil airline's fault (which I don't agree with anyway), doesn't actually help the OP.

 

[kamik86]

Honestly I think the law when it does take affect was the wrong way to go. I think airlines should be able to just not allow those under 13 to buy a basic ticket. They should have to include seat selectin to buy the seats.

I don't think parents that can't afford to upgrade should just have to sit without the kids. I think parents that can't afford to upgrade can't afford their trip.

I'm flying in a few days and specifically didn't book the losest fare even though we are two adults because DH really rather not sit seperate from me. It was just part of the cost of the trip.

 

[GaryDis]

Wrong! To quote the article:

It does not mandate that passengers be move to accommodate a parent, nor does it mandate that parent and child be upgraded to preferred seats to place them next to each other. It only states that the parent cannot be charged an additional fee in order to be seated next to their child. An airline is more likely to offer an upgrade to the passenger who paid for their seat selection than they are to offer the parents who took no responsibility to ensure that they were seated next to their child.

A bit of a tangent: Whenever Congress delegates policy or rule-making authority to a Federal agency, there's implicit authority to define and add to the rules anything the agency decides is necessary or appropriate to achieve Congress's intent, so long as it doesn't actually go against anything else in the legislation. This is why we'll often see court cases arguing over whether an agency's rule making was consistent with the law. (The EPA tends to attract these because their rules can have the financial impact to justify the cost of a legal challenge.)

I haven't read the legislation in question here. I wouldn't be shocked if it were interpreted as requiring the airlines to reseat a passenger (and refund anything extra they paid for the privilege of choosing their seats first). Nor would I be shocked if, instead, it merely required the airline to waive seat selection fees for a child and one parent whenever it saw a qualifying child and other adult on a reservation - but no other implications, say if there were no other pairs of adjacent seats available (regardless of fees for advanced selection). It would depend on the precise wording of the legislation, other existing legislation, and even the legislative history. What I wouldn't do is draw too many conclusions based on a newspaper's interpretation of the law.

 

[mjkacmom]

Honestly I think the law when it does take affect was the wrong way to go. I think airlines should be able to just not allow those under 13 to buy a basic ticket. They should have to include seat selectin to buy the seats.

I don't think parents that can't afford to upgrade should just have to sit without the kids. I think parents that can't afford to upgrade can't afford their trip.

I'm flying in a few days and specifically didn't book the losest fare even though we are two adults because DH really rather not sit seperate from me. It was just part of the cost of the trip.

13?! Dd20 started flying without the silly unaccompanied minor fee around 11. United recently changed it to being mandatory for under 14, I think. Children, starting at 8 or so, should be very capable of sitting a few rows from their parents for a few hours.

 

[kamik86]

13?! Dd20 started flying without the silly unaccompanied minor fee around 11. United recently changed it to being mandatory for under 14, I think. Children, starting at 8 or so, should be very capable of sitting a few rows from their parents for a few hours.

you know what good point. I was going with the age of the law and didn't really think about it that hard. However whatever age is the age where you can buy the basic I don't get a seat ticket is the age where you can't complain and expect to sit next to someone just because they are a kid.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

What's confusing about paying to select your seats? It's become (unfortunately) a common practice on many airlines. Especially the budget ones like Spirit that sell everything a la carte.

On my Delta flight from Detroit to MCO, there were 4 pay classes available. The economy class (that I quoted earlier and does not include preselected seat assignments) and then three additional pay classes above and beyond economy. I paid the higher price per ticket so we could have the larger seats in the area of the plane we wanted and in the seats we wanted. Perhaps you didn't see these choices available on your flight, but that doesn't mean they're not offered.

It wasn't the fact of paying for seats (yeah I wasn't that confused on that part) it the information other posters were putting out. I may have missed it but I'm not sure the OP said she booked Basic which is why I was wondering if that's how it got booked if that was the issue (either by mistake or by default) with Expedia.
-----
When we booked our flights there were plenty of seats left on all 5 flights. Other flight times did have Basic but the ones we selected did not. I think I didn't see it because it wasn't offered on that particular flight times I think that at least for my airport Delta does not have Basic on every flight time.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

A little off topic.....

I was on Southwest. We had finished boarding and ready to close the door when a family of 4 arrived. They had two young children with them (under 5). The mother was very loud in expressing how Southwest should have waited for them before boarding group B because they had family boarding, and her entire family had to sit together even though they were so late.

The flight attendant announced that people were going to have to give up their seats. It took a while for anyone to volunteer. The family "settled" for one parent to be seated near each child.

That's really interesting. Wonder why they were so quick to make other people give up their seats.

According to SWA rules-

From your story above I can't tell if they were in the gate area 10 mins before your scheduled departure.

Can't assume too much here but almost sounds like either they didn't get to the gate area in time and if so they may have not told the gate agent they would like Family boarding.Technically the Family Boarding rules are only an adult NOT two adults. Either way sounds like the family messed up and expected to get their way. I for one would have stuck firmly in my seat.

 

[tasha99]

Delta knows the age of its passengers. I think for a grade school or under aged child, they should at least have the kid sit with one parent. If that can't be done without moving someone, that's not a flight that family should even be able to book.

That said, that's not how it is. I pay extra to sit where I sit. Sometimes first class, often the extra space economy seats lately. I would not move without compensation, and that would be more than I paid for the upgrade. I have anxiety about flying and claustrophobia and compensate with a good aisle seat in the 2nd or 3rd row, and gin and tonics.

 

[crisi]

I'm gonna venture that whoever is sitting next to that 3 year old will GLADLY give up their seat. Middle seat > crying/kicking 3 year old ANYDAY!

That's how I ended up next to two undershowered overweight "nice guys" who thought a business trip would be a great chance to have a one night stand with the woman traveling alone. From now on, I'll take the kicking screaming three year old every time.

 

[crisi]

13?! Dd20 started flying without the silly unaccompanied minor fee around 11. United recently changed it to being mandatory for under 14, I think. Children, starting at 8 or so, should be very capable of sitting a few rows from their parents for a few hours.

My daughter flew to Europe for a school trip at that age. They had kids scattered all over the plane because charter tickets are bought on the cheap.

 

[SirDuff]

13?! Dd20 started flying without the silly unaccompanied minor fee around 11. United recently changed it to being mandatory for under 14, I think. Children, starting at 8 or so, should be very capable of sitting a few rows from their parents for a few hours.

I was so excited to be old enough not to fly as an UM. I actually "aged out" during a trip and insisted on not using on my way home (not because of the fee (I didn't even know about that), but because I knew enough to do things by myself and hated being babysat).

 

[Hikergirl]

You people are so weird. If you can't afford prefered seating, a child under 13 should just be alone? How is that fair for the CHILD? Let's spend some more time judging people with tight budget and punishing their children for it.

Clearly, airline should book any child with a parent. If no two seats next to each other are available, they shouldnt let the booking go through. It's not rocket science.

I hate that mentally. If we lived in a world where the money you own was entirely based on merit and effort, I might get it. But we don't. You're lucky you can spare dollars for those upgrades. Other people can't or if they do, they'll have to cut somewhere else along the line.

Also, it is entirely true that airline DO NOT let you see all available seats.

The feature to pay to choose seat shouldn't even exist. If a family is split and you feel pressured into giving up a seat you "paid for", you should be mad at the airline who didnt block at least two seats together.

In the OP's case, the child is not alone. They have the middle seats of 3 rows. That means the 3 year old could sit behing mom and in front of dad. Definitely not ideal if you want to sit with your child but its not like the child is sitting in row 27 and mom and dad are in rows 16 and 3.

And again, Delta did take responsibility, they let you know that you don't get to pick your seat before you hit the "purchase" button. This is on the parent, totally. If you aren't willing to take the chance, or you can't afford the higher priced tickets you don't book that flight. Plenty of people find alternatives, drive, change your dates around, have a garage sale, whatever. We all make choices based on our budget, that is called being responsible.

 

[GaryDis]

In fairness to the OP, the idea of paying for early seat selection (as opposed to paying for seats with more leg room) is relatively new. Unless the booking information explicitly said "you may not be seated together", it's not totally unreasonable to interpret that as "the airline will pick three seats together for you, but they may not be the best seats and might straddle an aisle". Many people simply don't do enough flying to think about the implications, or maybe in the past, when seat selection was included for free, they always booked early enough that they've never before seen a seat diagram with only center seats available.

Or maybe they just remember the good old days when everybody got their seats at the gates, so nobody had to think about any disadvantages of not picking seats in advance.

 

[ldo]

I had this issue with my older child, 15, whom I needed to sit by, in case she felt sick, on a flight where seat reservations cost extra. I paid for 2 of us to sit together at the higher fare, and made DH and D a reservation without seats. I chose window, aisle, hoping middle would be empty for son (or I would siwtch aisle for middle, if not). Son was able to sit in middle and DH was at the back. Saved $50 over everyone having seats together. I just viewed that lower fare as unavailable for DD and me.