Transgenders and bathrooms....

[VulcanGirl]

Honestly, I'm not all that well versed on the transgender thing as it isn't intersecting with my life yet but....

That's okay. The internet can be a good place to learn about new subjects. There are some great educational resources out there.

Though, I would mention that it may actually be intersecting with your life without you realizing it. There's generally no way to know if somebody is trans without them telling you. I can pretty well promise that you have indeed met a trans person at some point in your life.

When transgenders are permitted into the bathroom of the gender with which they identify, what's to stop some pervy guy/gal from just saying they identify with a certain gender just to go into the bathroom and "be pervy" (whatever perverts might do in the bathroom to be perverts)?

Honestly, nothing. But, there currently isn't anything to prevent that. Somebody who really wants to try to spy on others in restrooms could do so regardless of gender, sex, gender presentation, or anything else regardless of the law. That person would no doubt stand out trying to spy upon people and be called out or get in trouble for doing so. Generally, it would be obvious if somebody was doing something that they oughtn't be in a restroom. Neither that person's gender or genitals really have anything to do with that.

Ultimately, none of the concerns you talk about have anything to do with the issue at all. There are zero reported cases of anybody pretending to be transgender and harassing, assaulting, or in any other way negatively affecting anybody else in the restroom. This is not and never has been an issue.

What is an issue is that 70% of trans people have been harassed or assaulted when attempting to use the restroom. The realities of the difficulties that trans people regularly face around something so simple as being able to use restrooms in public locations cannot easily be summed up, but are very real and affect folks around the world.

Laws of the sort that you are concerned about, that allow folks to use the restroom that correlates with their gender, rather than their genitals, are in place in order to attempt to help protect trans folks from harassment and physical danger of this kind.

Though, they are still unable to combat the public mentalities that can threaten trans people regardless of what laws are in place intended to protect people from such issues. I live in Colorado, a state with such laws in place, yet I still have countless friends who are regularly questioned and verbally harassed in restrooms and a few that have experienced being physically dragged out of them and otherwise assaulted.

States, such as North Carolina, that have passed laws requiring trans folks to use the restrooms that correlate with their genitals, rather than their gender, do not protect anybody. But, they do cause serious harm to trans people. They give trans folks the fun choice between the possibility of physical assault (and let's remember that North Carolina is an open carry state) and using the restroom (because that's always super optional, right?) and effectively justify and make legal the discrimination that trans people experience when they try to use the restroom.

So, to go back to your initial concerns, there is no history of anybody using anti-discrimination laws in order to do anything untoward in a restroom. And, personally, I have no doubt that anybody attempting to do anything inappropriate in a public restroom would be quickly called out for it regardless of the surrounding circumstances.

And, I would also go further and speak out against the anti-trans rhetoric that these conversations too often further. Laws such as the current ones in North Carolina actively hurt trans folks, but let's remember that these attitudes exist even in places without those horrible laws and that combating them must be an ongoing effort if our true goal is to protect folks.

 

[verleniahall]

THIS is the reason that I now carry pepper spray and I am not afraid to spray a guy using the women's bathroom while screaming for help

 

[VulcanGirl]

Honestly, I'd find it weirder if someone who looked like a man (but was biologically) was in the women's washroom (which is what the law states in those states with it) than if someone who looked like a woman but happened to have a ***** (which I wouldn't see/know about).

I appreciate the sentiment of your post, but I would like to take a moment to point out that not every trans person 'passes' as their actual gender. Because of some of the problematic ways in which society is set up, those who do not 'pass' are often the most vulnerable in such situations and are every bit as deserving of protection and respect when using the restroom best for them as those who do 'pass' are. Long story made short, what gender others perceive a person as has nothing to do with what gender they are and has nothing to do with which restroom they should use.

 

[FairestOfThemAll37]

THIS is the reason that I now carry pepper spray and I am not afraid to spray a guy using the women's bathroom while screaming for help

But under the bans being proposed, that man you pepper spray down may very well have female parts and be legally required to use the women's room.

How exactly will you know if it's actually a man? Not all women have long hair and wear dresses. I'd be very cautious with your approach as you may find yourself facing charges.

 

[Albort]

maybe companies should just put in family bathrooms instead. then we dont have any problems...

 

[tzolkin]

Honestly, I'd find it weirder if someone who looked like a man (but was biologically) was in the women's washroom (which is what the law states in those states with it) than if someone who looked like a woman but happened to have a ***** (which I wouldn't see/know about).

And, as NHdisneylover said allowing transgendered people to use the washroom matching their gender makes it no more likely that a perverted person would use the wrong bathroom with some perverted motive than it is now.

This is the common sense thing that I just can't understand why everyone doesn't seem able to figure out.

I'm in NC and I'm constantly reading/hearing about how "I don't want a MAN in the bathroom with me/my wife/my kids/etc". I just don't know how they can't see that now you will have people who 100% appear to be a man required by law to use the women's restroom. I'm sure that will make people way more uncomfortable than having trans women using the women's restroom. Not to mention, doesn't that make it easier for men to gain access to the women's room-- now even if they look masculine/have a beard/etc they could just claim that they're really a trans man and therefore "required" to use the women's restroom.

And it just sickens me to think about how many more instances of assault on trans women will happen if they are required by law to use the men's room.

 

[SirDuff]

THIS is the reason that I now carry pepper spray and I am not afraid to spray a guy using the women's bathroom while screaming for help

*What* is the reason why?

 

[SirDuff]

THIS is the reason that I now carry pepper spray and I am not afraid to spray a guy using the women's bathroom while screaming for help

Sorry, double post.

 

[SirDuff]

I appreciate the sentiment of your post, but I would like to take a moment to point out that not every trans person 'passes' as their actual gender. Because of some of the problematic ways in which society is set up, those who do not 'pass' are often the most vulnerable in such situations and are every bit as deserving of protection and respect when using the restroom best for them as those who do 'pass' are. Long story made short, what gender others perceive a person as has nothing to do with what gender they are and has nothing to do with which restroom they should use.

You're absolutely right (and I did think of that side after I posted). I have to admit though that, fair or not, I'd likely do a double-take if I saw someone who looked male in the women's bathroom (first instinct would be to check that I hadn't entered the wrong one - I've done that before). Whereas, the other way, I wouldn't even know (so no double take).

 

[tzolkin]

I appreciate the sentiment of your post, but I would like to take a moment to point out that not every trans person 'passes' as their actual gender. Because of some of the problematic ways in which society is set up, those who do not 'pass' are often the most vulnerable in such situations and are every bit as deserving of protection and respect when using the restroom best for them as those who do 'pass' are. Long story made short, what gender others perceive a person as has nothing to do with what gender they are and has nothing to do with which restroom they should use.

This is absolutely true, I'm certain it's much more difficult for trans people who are unable to "pass" as their gender. There are also many people who are not trans who still don't completely conform to gender norms. These types of laws are just making things more difficult for everyone because now everyone will be more highly scrutinized and possibly humiliated every time they attempt to use a restroom.

I have personally known several biological women who have had issues using the women's restroom (even before these laws began to come about). One straight older friend who simply "appears masculine" has had many confrontations with people in different places. Another good friend was "gender policed" in an airport bathroom a few months ago by an airport security employee. They were physically trying to block her from entering the restroom and repeatedly telling her it was the WOMEN'S restroom. (To me, she looks completely feminine so I have no idea what the person's issue was.)

I'm just waiting to hear the outrage from some of the supporters of these laws when their wives and daughters start getting harassed for not looking "feminine enough".

 

[AliceAnn]

Is anyone out there trying to stop the ex Republican US Senator from Idaho, Larry Craig, from using the men's room?

 

[sunshinehighway]

These "bathroom" laws are creating problems, not addressing them. Its just a way to rile people up and scare them into believing a greater agenda. This crap needs to stop. We need to stop making things up to scare people into hating one another.

 

[Soldier's*Sweeties]

THIS is the reason that I now carry pepper spray and I am not afraid to spray a guy using the women's bathroom while screaming for help

Really?
Soooooo are you going to ask to see someone's bathing suit parts if that person looks like a man but still has a ******? Because technically in certain places he now has to use the woman's restroom.

 

[Soldier's*Sweeties]

But under the bans being proposed, that man you pepper spray down may very well have female parts and be legally required to use the women's room.

How exactly will you know if it's actually a man? Not all women have long hair and wear dresses. I'd be very cautious with your approach as you may find yourself facing charges.

Not to mention... Pepper spray... Enclosed spaces...

 

[manning]

There's definitely a serious situation here. How do I know? The government says so.

 

[LisaR]

I think child sexual predators are some of the most disgusting, despicable scum of the earth. As much as I hate them, they aren't stupid. As a matter of fact, they blend into society just fine. Most have jobs, are married, and are generally fully functioning adults. I find it hard to believe that they never considered waltzing into public restrooms until this trans NON-issue came to light. Do we really think they finally had a light bulb moment and are going to be flocking to public restrooms? I've never used a guarded bathroom in my life. There has been absolutely nothing preventing these scum from entering in the past but the reality is the vast majority of their victims aren't plucked from a public restroom. I don't expect that to change.

 

[Allons-y!]

Let's go over this again, for those who may need it. Transgendered people are not perverts. Neither are homosexual people or bisexual people or queer or questioning or gender fluid people.

Perverts are perverts. They can be straight, gay, bi, or whatever. They can be your next door neighbor, the person on the register at the grocery store, a coach, a pastor, a close family member. Simply being attracted to a particular gender, or identifying as a certain gender, does not make one a pervert. Being attracted to children does. So is sexually engaging others without their consent, whether known or unknown to them. And there are other things that would make one a pervert, but being gay or trans or any number of other orientations / identifications has nothing to do with it.

 

[LisaR]

THIS is the reason that I now carry pepper spray and I am not afraid to spray a guy using the women's bathroom while screaming for help

You would pepper spray someone who is clearly using the restroom for the sole use of what it was intended for? I'm not talking about someone looking over or under the door, standing in the corner checking people out, or exposing themselves. I'm asking if you would pepper spray a person who you assume is a man because they walked in to the stall, shut the door, did their business, came out and washed their hands, and would have left?

 

[Allons-y!]

THIS is the reason that I now carry pepper spray and I am not afraid to spray a guy using the women's bathroom while screaming for help

Hm, well, I would hope that you would only use it if someone was actually being attacked, not just because you see someone in the bathroom that you assume shouldn't be in there. Or do you really mean that you would spray someone simply for being in there??

Oh, and pepper spray in small places would disable you, too, so there's that.

 

[Missy1961]

THIS is the reason that I now carry pepper spray and I am not afraid to spray a guy using the women's bathroom while screaming for help

I really don't know what to say.