How does vandalism and looting accomplish anything???

[ChrisFL]

I don't live in Ferguson, never been there, but I remember the riots in L.A. and I am familiar with communities in similar circumstances.

The point is...this most likely isn't about once incident...most likely the community feels oppressed by the police for other reasons. So we can argue about the michael brown problem, but I have a feeling there's been mistrust and unrest for a long time.

 

[Tozzie]

But there was only eyewitness evidence on the main question. What were Brown's actions during the time he was shot? Exactly how did Wilson's shots relate to these actions? What was happening when?

You are incorrect scientific evidence can prove if certain things are true or not so eyewitness testimony is not the only eveidence on the main question.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I don't live in Ferguson, never been there, but I remember the riots in L.A. and I am familiar with communities in similar circumstances.

The point is...this most likely isn't about once incident...most likely the community feels oppressed by the police for other reasons. So we can argue about the michael brown problem, but I have a feeling there's been mistrust and unrest for a long time.

Maybe--but if Officer Wilson is in innocent, it is not justice to make him the poster boy.

You cannot go after innocent people to correct a period of injustice. It can be argued all they like that Mike Brown was innocent, but there was not evidence of that.

 

[ChrisFL]

Maybe--but if Officer Wilson is in innocent, it is not justice to make him the poster boy.

You cannot go after innocent people to correct a period of injustice. It can be argued all they like that Mike Brown was innocent, but there was not evidence of that.

I agree, I think there was a lot of disputed eyewitness accounts and I am not making excuses for any kind of violence or rioting (ESPECIALLY Looting which is really stupid).

I'm just saying this is probably part of a larger issue that may have been going on for a long time.

 

[Disneychick75]

But there was only eyewitness evidence on the main question. What were Brown's actions during the time he was shot? Exactly how did Wilson's shots relate to these actions? What was happening when?

McCulloch went over this is his news conference. He said 2 shots were fired when Wilson was attacked in the SUV, one nicked Brown's hand. Brown started walking away. Wilson went after him. Brown turned around and in witness statements "charged" at Wilson, so Wilson began shooting. Brown stopped charging and Wilson stopped shooting. Then Brown began charging at Wilson again and Wilson began firing again.
All evidence and testimony (with witness names redacted) was released to media at the press conference. I'm sure it will be on the internet within a day or two.

 

[Viva Las Disney]

I don't think that is correct information, I know in my state and many others no arrest or convictions has to take place because the burden of proof in civil court is much less than is needed in criminal

This is usually the case, OJ Simpson being a very public case, he was found not guilty in the criminal case but lost millions in the civil case.

 

[pat fan]

This is usually the case, OJ Simpson being a very public case, he was found not guilty in the criminal case but lost millions in the civil case.

But he WAS arrested. I guess I always thought you had to be arrested (not convicted) for a civil case.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

But he WAS arrested. I guess I always thought you had to be arrested (not convicted) for a civil case.

That was stated at some point in the thread. I'm sure if the family can find a legitimate way to sue, they will.

 

[Viva Las Disney]

Sadly this night is playing out exactly as I feared it would.

I always thought the limited evidence pointed to self defense and no charges would be filed but I really hoped the peaceful protestors would be able to control the trouble makers, with looting and fires now starting it's looking bad.

The looting and damaging businesses annoys the crap out of me, the message is no longer about Mike Brown, Officer Wilson, or even the people who are peacefully protesting but once again reinforcing the decades old stereotypes that the black community are criminals and lawless.

I feel bad for the 90% of the black community who are your average everyday citizens that will never be able to separate themselves from the troublemakers.

 

[mnrose]

But he WAS arrested. I guess I always thought you had to be arrested (not convicted) for a civil case.

Nope. Burden of proof is entirely different. There is no dispute that Wilson shot Brown. Not enough evidence to prove a criminal case (which requires mens reas) does not mean that he is free from civil action. Criminal cases require, generally, some sort of intentionality, where you can be sued in civil court for something that was purely accidental or unintentional. All you need is some damage (yup, got that) and someone who caused the damage (yup, got that) who breached a standard of care owed to the injured party. There are other factors, of course, but that's the broad parameters.

I am certain the Brown family will sue. I would also bet large sums that the case will be settled.

 

[rickybobby]

I am certain the Brown family will sue. I would also bet large sums that the case will be settled.

No, it won't. Gotta have intent.

 

[LBIJim]

I read early on that an arrest of Officer Wilson would be needed in order to file a civil suit.

Anyone can FILE a civil suit. It may be accepted by a judge and go to trial, or it may be dismissed without a trial.

Based on what I've read after all the riots quieted down in August, which admittedly wasn't all that much, it appears the shooting was "not unjustified."

 

[pat fan]

Burden of proof is entirely different. There is no dispute that Wilson shot Brown. Not enough evidence to prove a criminal case (which requires mens reas) does not mean that he is free from civil action. Criminal cases require, generally, some sort of intentionality, where you can be sued in civil court for something that was purely accidental or unintentional. All you need is some damage (yup, got that) and someone who caused the damage (yup, got that) who breached a standard of care owed to the injured party.

Got it. And just to be clear, when I say "he was arrested" I was talking about OJ.

Oy, listening to M. Brown's cousin and boy is he misguided, confused, what have you.

 

[Tozzie]

No, it won't. Gotta have intent.

Not in civil court you don't have to have intent. Here is a simple example, I am riding my bike, for what ever reason I crash my bike into your car and damage it, I had no intent to damage your car but I did who should be liable for the damage you or me?

 

[Disneychick75]

Nope. Burden of proof is entirely different. There is no dispute that Wilson shot Brown. Not enough evidence to prove a criminal case (which requires mens reas) does not mean that he is free from civil action. Criminal cases require, generally, some sort of intentionality, where you can be sued in civil court for something that was purely accidental or unintentional. All you need is some damage (yup, got that) and someone who caused the damage (yup, got that) who breached a standard of care owed to the injured party. There are other factors, of course, but that's the broad parameters.

I am certain the Brown family will sue. I would also bet large sums that the case will be settled.

Thanks for the information.
IMO, it would be stupid to bring suit against Wilson when there was not even evidence to indict him. Brown charged at Wilson and he defended himself. The standard of care is subjective. Wilson told Brown and Johnson to get off the street, Brown confronted Wilson, there was a scuffle, Brown walked away after not only robbing a convenience store but attacking a law officer. Wilson was acting properly when he pursued Brown. When Brown charged, Wilson defended himself. I don't see any negligence. Of course, I'm not a lawyer and don't play one on tv. This is just my opinion as a lay person.

 

[Planogirl]

I had a feeling that it wouldn't really matter to the instigators that are among the protestors. They want violence and they likely would have started trouble no matter what the verdict was. Of course they can likely get farther with that with the news that came out tonight.

I can't understand looting and setting local businesses on fire. Those place are there to serve that community so do they really want to in effect run them out?

 

[pooh4evr]

Fire- Little Caesars. Walgreens, Sams market More fires than the fire dept can handle right now
- Looting Beauty World, toys R Us, Family Dollar (? why)
- Highway 44 has been shutdown in both directions with people sitting on the highway, and jumping on cars trying to get into an 18 wheeler. Scary stuff

 

[LBIJim]

I had a feeling that it wouldn't really matter to the instigators that are among the protestors. They want violence and they likely would have started trouble no matter what the verdict was. Of course they can likely get farther with that with the news that came out tonight.

I can't understand looting and setting local businesses on fire. Those place are there to serve that community so do they really want to in effect run them out?

Same here. I figured there would be unrest no matter how the decision went.

And I believe the news media was hoping for unrest so they could broadcast it.

 

[Disneychick75]

Fire- Little Caesars. Walgreens, Sams market More fires than the fire dept can handle right now
- Looting Beauty World, toys R Us, Family Dollar (? why)
- Highway 44 has been shutdown in both directions with people sitting on the highway, and jumping on cars trying to get into an 18 wheeler. Scary stuff

It' terrible that innocent people will not have their businesses and that the innocent residents won't have these stores.

 

[Planogirl]

It' terrible that innocent people will not have their businesses and that the innocent residents won't have these stores.

I just hope that the hoodlums stick to only the businesses and don't start breaking into houses or attacking people in cars.