Disney is just not the same anymore!!!

[Suvadoo]

I am not and was not making that assumption.

In fact, first time guests who do no advance research aren't going to get much benefit out of either system. Either way they would probably have to ask a CM how FPs work or not get FPs at all.

I am focusing on guests who do enough research to have an idea what they want to do. It is my opinion that a lot of those guests appreciate having reservations in advance for 3 things they are pretty sure they want to do instead of having to execute a strategy on the fly.

When I make a rare visit to Disneyland over Christmas break this year, I know I would much rather have 3 FPs in hand for 3 of their 7 FP attractions than to hope that my studying of the park maps and predicted wait times will produce the results I would like.[/QUOTE]

Well if Disneyland was stupid enough to implement FP+, there would be a lot more rides with FP+ then the 7 FP rides they currently have. Also, with a decent touring plan, you can keep your attraction wait times low. I've been there at Christmas and was able to ride everything with practically no waiting. I hit all the E-ticket attractions first.

 

[kbelle8995]

I am not and was not making that assumption.

In fact, first time guests who do no advance research aren't going to get much benefit out of either system. Either way they would probably have to ask a CM how FPs work or not get FPs at all.

I am focusing on guests who do enough research to have an idea what they want to do. It is my opinion that a lot of those guests appreciate having reservations in advance for 3 things they are pretty sure they want to do instead of having to execute a strategy on the fly.

When I make a rare visit to Disneyland over Christmas break this year, I know I would much rather have 3 FPs in hand for 3 of their 7 FP attractions than to hope that my studying of the park maps and predicted wait times will produce the results I would like.

I don't know If I can see them putting this system in Disneyland. It is more of Locals market than WDW. It would be interesting to see if any of them would want this. I don't think so.

I think the Villagers would riot. Or simply not use it.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

He clearly stated those thoughts were his own feelings.

Yep--he also stated others don't want to admit to it. When asked for a source--instead of providing one, jumped on the poster for not quoting the entire post. But it still doesn't change the curiosity of what facts helped the poster derive his opinion.

 

[Jennasis]

Yep--he also stated others don't want to admit to it. When asked for a source--instead of providing one, jumped on the poster for not quoting the entire post. But it still doesn't change the curiosity of what facts helped the poster derive his opinion.

It's all still his personal feelings...not driven by any facts. People have opinions all the time like that. Someday he'll either find he was right or wrong in his thinking.

 

[wisblue]

Then I apologize, because your previous post very much cane across that way.



I'm sure there are many who do appreciate it. I have never argued otherwise.

I am also sure there are many first timers who are overwhelmed by the preplanning, as that has been my experience when first timers have come to me for help planning their vacation since FP+ began.

I may be misinterpreting your choice to.ignore the last half of my response to you, and if so I apologize again, but I do find it interesting that I do nothing but respect that your experiences are different than mine, say so, apologize when I misinterpret something (as above), and yet you dismiss my experiences as you did in your last post (chalking my experience up to us being frequent visitors and evolving our touring style), without so much as an acknowledgment when I respond with that not being the case for us. I have no reason to pretend or exaggerate.

I think you are reading way too much into some of my posts. I'll send you a PM.

 

[Angel Ariel]

I think you are reading way too much into some of my posts. I'll send you a PM.

It just seemed odd to me to make the statement and then ignore the response. But, as I said, I wasn't sure how to take it. I do apologize, as I'm really not trying to read anything into anyone's posts, just trying to take them as they are.

 

[tony67]

Yep--he also stated others don't want to admit to it. When asked for a source--instead of providing one, jumped on the poster for not quoting the entire post. But it still doesn't change the curiosity of what facts helped the poster derive his opinion.

I did not say "others don't want to admit to it"

The quote was:
"My thought is that they have seen a reduction in repeat business, but first time visits are going up.

No one wants to admit that the reason repeat business is down is because they have made bad choices."

The "No one wants to admit" refers back to the they in the first sentence - and by that I mean management.

I then gave a list of what I think those bad decisions that management made are.


It all my opinions and nothing more than that.

 

[Luckybee]

I did not say "others don't want to admit to it"

The quote was:
"My thought is that they have seen a reduction in repeat business, but first time visits are going up.

No one wants to admit that the reason repeat business is down is because they have made bad choices."

The "No one wants to admit" refers back to the they in the first sentence - and by that I mean management.

I then gave a list of what I think those bad decisions that management made are.


It all my opinions and nothing more than that.

I had thought that it was sort of obvious that there will be some drop in repeat business. Even if one did nothing more than read posts on the DB they would understand that some guests will not be going back under the current system and others who may go back but less frequently. Guests who go for the first time and have never experienced earlier parks potentially may become repeaters. The bottom line is how much of a drop D can anticipate and whether new guests will fill the void. If its a small number then nothing will change. If the numbers are more substantial then I expect D will make changes. Only time will tell and I expect that time wont happen for yrs.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I did not say "others don't want to admit to it"

The quote was:
"My thought is that they have seen a reduction in repeat business, but first time visits are going up.

No one wants to admit that the reason repeat business is down is because they have made bad choices."

The "No one wants to admit" refers back to the they in the first sentence - and by that I mean management.

I then gave a list of what I think those bad decisions that management made are.


It all my opinions and nothing more than that.

So you chided a posted for not including the whole quote, quoted more of your quote (where I inferred it was now complete) but expected others to go back and make sure they got your whole quote because you didn't actually quote your whole quote?

And in the end, if the net result is positive to the bottom line, why would they need to admit anything?

(*don't know if that will be the case)

Speculation has been (I think on the boards, but this has been over several years so not sure all my sources)--repeat visitors spend less than a new visitor. So the new visitor is the desired consumer since they are likely to spend more on retail and food. Don't know why they would need to admit this as any business would want the per customer spending to be more.

 

[flicx]

I'm not addressing that because that isn't the topic of this specific discussion. Here I am simply addressing which system makes it easier for a first time or infrequent visitor to get 3 FPs for rides they want at times that work for them.

For guests who don't have hoppers and are visiting the MK, the issues of tiers and hopping aren't even factors.

Hopping may not be a factor, but tiering sure is. How can you dismiss the fact that whether you are a newbie or veteran you may desire more than one top tier fast pass. Just saying.

 

[wisblue]

Hopping may not be a factor, but tiering sure is. How can you dismiss the fact that whether you are a newbie or veteran you may desire more than one top tier fast pass. Just saying.

Because I said "visiting the MK" and there are no tiers at MK.

 

[tony67]

So you chided a posted for not including the whole quote, quoted more of your quote (where I inferred it was now complete) but expected others to go back and make sure they got your whole quote because you didn't actually quote your whole quote?

And in the end, if the net result is positive to the bottom line, why would they need to admit anything?

(*don't know if that will be the case)

Speculation has been (I think on the boards, but this has been over several years so not sure all my sources)--repeat visitors spend less than a new visitor. So the new visitor is the desired consumer since they are likely to spend more on retail and food. Don't know why they would need to admit this as any business would want the per customer spending to be more.

Again.....I was pointing out that is was my opinion and not any sort of fact....I was misquoted and I felt the two lines cleared that up...i also quoted it properly so you could see click the link back to it easily to review the full quote of you felt like it.

The person who quoted me asking for sources did not quote it properly so there was no reasonable way to go back to the original post..or even to know who made the statement..or even the post number ....I just happened to know it was mine..and then I had to take the time to find it...so I could respond to it..not as easy as you'd think

Well there was no need for sources...it was speculation...and I think that that poster and I were cool with that all in the end.

And as I have said none of us will really have a clear understand how it will all play out..for at least a year...

But if you want to continue to go back and forth on this I'm sure Ill be back at some point to drag this one on another 15 pages

 

[flicx]

I would be fine with eliminating all FPs, but I don't see that happening.

If I wanted to take a Rube Goldberg approach to describing how to get a paper FP, I could do that too.

But, there is no reason at all to pick rides you don't want to make FP+ reservations. So, the first two steps you quoted are totally unnecessary. Many of us pick TIMES we don't want so that we can change them into exactly what we want. But, you don't have to do that. If you don't care about return times all you have to do is pick 3 rides and accept the times they give you. And just like that you would have 3 FPs. That would compare to:

1. Walk to ride 1.

2. Insert ticket, get pass. Repeat for each member of your party.

3. Later, go to ride 2.("Later" is defined as the earlier of 2 hours from now or the return time of your current pass).

4. Insert ticket, get pass. Repeat for each member of your party

5. Later, go to ride 3.

6. Insert ticket, get pass. Repeat for each member of your party.

That sounds to me like more effort to get 3 FPs for my party than what you can do with FP+, but maybe it's just me.

This is the original post of yours that I commented on. I see nothing about just the magic kingdom here. It had to do with the ease of legacy versus plus. Some how we are talking about two different things. That's fine though, just wanted to point out what I was referring to.

 

[ttintagel]

I would be fine with eliminating all FPs, but I don't see that happening.

If I wanted to take a Rube Goldberg approach to describing how to get a paper FP, I could do that too.

But, there is no reason at all to pick rides you don't want to make FP+ reservations. So, the first two steps you quoted are totally unnecessary. Many of us pick TIMES we don't want so that we can change them into exactly what we want. But, you don't have to do that. If you don't care about return times all you have to do is pick 3 rides and accept the times they give you. And just like that you would have 3 FPs. That would compare to:

1. Walk to ride 1.

2. Insert ticket, get pass. Repeat for each member of your party.

3. Later, go to ride 2.("Later" is defined as the earlier of 2 hours from now or the return time of your current pass).

4. Insert ticket, get pass. Repeat for each member of your party

5. Later, go to ride 3.

6. Insert ticket, get pass. Repeat for each member of your party.

That sounds to me like more effort to get 3 FPs for my party than what you can do with FP+, but maybe it's just me.

Personally, I'd prefer it if they did away with any kind of Fastpass altogether, and made everything first-come, first-serve. Simpler for everybody. If you don't want to wait a long time for a headliner, you go do other things until the wait goes down.

Of course, that would mean building more attractions in the non-MK parks to accommodate the overflow, and Disney doesn't really seem interested in doing that anymore.

 

[cakebaker]

Personally, I'd prefer it if they did away with any kind of Fastpass altogether, and made everything first-come, first-serve. Simpler for everybody. If you don't want to wait a long time for a headliner, you go do other things until the wait goes down.

Of course, that would mean building more attractions in the non-MK parks to accommodate the overflow, and Disney doesn't really seem interested in doing that anymore.

The reason they instituted fp originally was due to guest complaints about long lines. I remember the no fp days- much as fp cramped our touring style, it was better than standing in those long lines. Imagine with the increased crowd levels today how long those lines would be.

That might be the one thing that stopped me from going to WDW- no line management system.

 

[Suvadoo]

The reason they instituted fp originally was due to guest complaints about long lines. I remember the no fp days- much as fp cramped our touring style, it was better than standing in those long lines. Imagine with the increased crowd levels today how long those lines would be.

That might be the one thing that stopped me from going to WDW- no line management system.

Guest complaints may have been the motivation, but lines are inevitable in most parts of our lives. IMO FP+ has not been an improvement. Before FP+, I could get on HM, SW, and POTC with a less than 10 minute wait. Now FP+ has ended that.

Before implementing a ride reservation system, Disney could've increased operating hours and increased the number of attractions. They also could've reduced the number of guests admitted, especially to MK.

As a PP stated, I would be happier without any form of FP than the current system.

 

[ttintagel]

The reason they instituted fp originally was due to guest complaints about long lines. I remember the no fp days- much as fp cramped our touring style, it was better than standing in those long lines. Imagine with the increased crowd levels today how long those lines would be.

That might be the one thing that stopped me from going to WDW- no line management system.

I didn't stand in long lines in those days - I used the same 20-30 min, maximum I use now. If the posted wait was longer than that, I came back later. My choice, just like it was the choice of others to wait instead of coming back.

As I said, having more second-tier attractions for people to visit when lines at headliners are long takes care of the problem.

 

[cakebaker]

I didn't stand in long lines in those days - I used the same 20-30 min, maximum I use now. If the posted wait was longer than that, I came back later. My choice, just like it was the choice of others to wait instead of coming back.

As I said, having more second-tier attractions for people to visit when lines at headliners are long takes care of the problem.

Apparently you were in the minority because enough people complained about them that Disney decided to institute fp.

 

[GatorChris]

and thank goodness...

I find there is so much negativity on the boards these days, even about small changes. I think hard core Disney fans seem to have difficulty accepting change - perhaps because of the many good past memories, nostalgia involved.

I do get it - I don't like every change either but I personally am glad to see Disney is trying to do some things which likely are in response to guest feedback:
- Avatarland - bring it, it might be incredible (and yes, star wars would be even better);
- backlot tour is gone - about time don't you think?;
- Axe the hat at Disney studios - well done I know I never have said I can't wait to see the hat;
- FP+ - nice option for those who don't want to get to parks so early (which isn't me btw);
- Starbucks - life changing, thank goodness, the coffee sucked before;
- Malestrom being Frozen - great, updating a boring ride with something for the kids
- DTD expansion - yes to more restaurants, shopping, entertainment

Some of this is right, but not all.

I've stopped going to WDW because of FP+. Seems like such a bear to wrestle. Starbucks....if I wanted burnt coffee, I can do that at home. And the HAT - nothing worse could've happened for me. I love that hat, love seeing it, love taking pictures of it. It represents what WDW is for me.

And you didn't mention all the Epcot changes. No World Showcase Players? Can there even be an Epcot without the WSP? Nope. At least, not in my immediate future. I like change, and I like to see the films get added to the parks. But there some things I'd rather them keep their mits off of.

 

[wisblue]

This is the original post of yours that I commented on. I see nothing about just the magic kingdom here. It had to do with the ease of legacy versus plus. Some how we are talking about two different things. That's fine though, just wanted to point out what I was referring to.

I knew exactly what you were referring to.

My original post dealt only with the ease of the physical process of getting a FP. A direct response to the throwaway comment about how paper FP was as simple as "insert ticket, get pass". That had nothing to do with hoppers or tiers.

You went off on the tangent of throwing hoppers and tiers into the mix, and I had and have no desire to get into a debate about those. If you look at post 210 in this thread your next post was in response to a comment I made about people without hoppers in the MK.