Gratuity on DDP

[averysmom]

I tip - and with that out of the way - I don't understand why it's based on the total amount of your bill???

Shouldn't it be based on the amount of dishes / courses / ppl you have?

The waitress at the burger joint who serves our family of 4 burgers and fries and shakes is working much harder than the waiter who serves dh and I at the fine dining establishment - and yet who would get the higher tip? The fine dining waiter because the ticket was higher.

Just a thought.

 

[themudd4]

I tip - and with that out of the way - I don't understand why it's based on the total amount of your bill???

Shouldn't it be based on the amount of dishes / courses / ppl you have?

The waitress at the burger joint who serves our family of 4 burgers and fries and shakes is working much harder than the waiter who serves dh and I at the fine dining establishment - and yet who would get the higher tip? The fine dining waiter because the ticket was higher.

Just a thought.

I made the same remarks back on post #60....GREAT MINDS!!! (regardless what anyone else thinks!)

 

[Disney8704]

It should be, but it isnt. Some people do tip that way. Some people might say OK $2 per plate or whatever. Most tip on % though. DH and I are discussing this. We are trying to decide weither or not keep tipping % or switch to a certain $ amount per dish or just a certain $ amount regardless what the bill is. Like $5 tips. Our meals never come out to be no more then $30 - $35 and we always leave 15% tips. So it usually comes out to be about $5 for tips anyways. Now when we go to Disney, we will probably stick with the 15% tips, or I might look at the highest tip (which is $10, I have figured out all our tips for each TS meal and they all range from $5 - $10) we will give during our vacation and say OK, no matter what the bill is, we will leave a $10 tip. So that server could get a 15% tip from us or maybe even a 20% tip or more.

I tip - and with that out of the way - I don't understand why it's based on the total amount of your bill???

Shouldn't it be based on the amount of dishes / courses / ppl you have?

The waitress at the burger joint who serves our family of 4 burgers and fries and shakes is working much harder than the waiter who serves dh and I at the fine dining establishment - and yet who would get the higher tip? The fine dining waiter because the ticket was higher.

Just a thought.

 

[Katiebell]

It's an option, not a requirement. Nobody HAS to purchase the DDP. Guests who consider it a hassle or too much trouble or whatever can just pay cash for their food.

I agree. We, among many others, happen to like the DDP a lot. At least we did, we'll see after the changes this year But we go to DL about once a year, and they don't have anything like it. And you still are expected to pay a tip, regardless of how you choose pay for your meals.

Oh, please. That's asinine. Does the person who pays YOU judge where you're money's being spent, and decide whether/how much to pay you based on his or her assumptions on your budget? TIPPING IS AN EXPECTED PART OF THE COST OF DINING IN A RESTAURANT WHERE SOMEBODY SERVES YOU. PERIOD. Change your mind, don't change your mind, whatever. But don't use ridiculous or trumped-up excuses to avoid tipping.

Well... I think it's coming from the concept that tipping is over and above a server's wage, and is just "extra", not what they rely on as their take home pay Like when you tip housekeeping or valet parking or bellhops -- they all make at least minimum wage and tips truly are just little extra bonuses. But it brought to mind the guy I saw on the street corner with a sign that said, "Why lie, I need a beer."

I'm not sure if everyone truly understands that if there was no tipping --
restaurants would be required BY LAW to pay their servers at least minimum wage --
and who do you think would cover the cost of that? The patrons. Menu prices would go up to make up the difference. Also, with the prospect of only minimum wage, quality servers would not be attracted to such low paying dead end jobs. Waiting tables -- and doing a good job of it -- is hard work.

I tip - and with that out of the way - I don't understand why it's based on the total amount of your bill???

Shouldn't it be based on the amount of dishes / courses / ppl you have?

The waitress at the burger joint who serves our family of 4 burgers and fries and shakes is working much harder than the waiter who serves dh and I at the fine dining establishment - and yet who would get the higher tip? The fine dining waiter because the ticket was higher.

Just a thought.

I agree they may work just as hard or harder. I think it's the same concept though, that you might pay $40 for a steak dinner at an nice restaurant, but you would expect to pay $10 for a steak dinner at a coffee shop. And you would expect less out of the meal as far as quality, ingredients, and presentation. In a more upscale establishment, you are going to probably expect more out of the waitstaff, too.

 

[RACHELSMOM1]

I tip - and with that out of the way - I don't understand why it's based on the total amount of your bill???

Shouldn't it be based on the amount of dishes / courses / ppl you have?

The waitress at the burger joint who serves our family of 4 burgers and fries and shakes is working much harder than the waiter who serves dh and I at the fine dining establishment - and yet who would get the higher tip? The fine dining waiter because the ticket was higher.

Just a thought.

I am so with you here!! Just because a server is lucky enough to work in a special restaurant with high priced entrees should not mean that he/she is automatically entitled to a bigger tip....

 

[Disney8704]

Not always. Theres a small family owned restraunt that DH and I go to often and I LOVE their food. Their prices are low, the presentation is nothing more then how you would see it presented like at Applesbees. Nothing fancy. Just food on a plate. Their steak is OMG delicious! And for me and DH it only cost $20 to eat there including tip. Then I go to Ruby Tuesdays. Try their steak. Their restraunt is more upscale. But is their food more upscale then that family owned restraunt? No. I would rather have that steak at the family owned restraunt then ruby tuesdays any day! Another example Olive Garden and another Italian Restraunt that we tried 1 time thats VERY fancy. Which would I rather have? Olive Garden hands down. Olive Gardens salad, breadsticks, and chicken parmasian (sp?) AND service is like 10000% better then that fancy italian restraunt and olive garden is cheaper to. So just because that restraunt might be more upscale doesnt mean its gonna be better.

And you would expect less out of the meal as far as quality, ingredients, and presentation. In a more upscale establishment, you are going to probably expect more out of the waitstaff, too.

 

[Katiebell]

Not always. Theres a small family owned restraunt that DH and I go to often and I LOVE their food. Their prices are low, the presentation is nothing more then how you would see it presented like at Applesbees. Nothing fancy. Just food on a plate. Their steak is OMG delicious! And for me and DH it only cost $20 to eat there including tip. Then I go to Ruby Tuesdays. Try their steak. Their restraunt is more upscale. But is their food more upscale then that family owned restraunt? No. I would rather have that steak at the family owned restraunt then ruby tuesdays any day! Another example Olive Garden and another Italian Restraunt that we tried 1 time thats VERY fancy. Which would I rather have? Olive Garden hands down. Olive Gardens salad, breadsticks, and chicken parmasian (sp?) AND service is like 10000% better then that fancy italian restraunt and olive garden is cheaper to. So just because that restraunt might be more upscale doesnt mean its gonna be better.

Of course it doesn't and there are a lot of local, hole-in-the-wall, Mom and Pop places that serve great cheap food. That's not the point I was making.

If you pay $80 for a pair of shoes, you can expect that they will be constructed better, made of better material, and last longer than a $20 pair of shoes. Not always the case, but it's a reasonable expectation.

If you go to a restaurant that costs considerably more for meal, you as a consumer can rightfully expect that the quality, ingredients, and presentation of your meal -- and the service -- will be something more than what you would get at an inexpensive eatery. That is why you would pay more to eat there in the first place. Not always the case, but if a restaurant charges more, they are expected to offer more (not more quantity, but more quality). At the local pancake house, I expect the server to be pleasant, take my order correctly, keep my coffee cup full, bring more cream for my coffee if I run out, and bring my check in a timely manner. I don't expect the server there to grind pepper or grate parmesan on my salad, or make knowledgeable wine recommendations, or flambe Bananas Foster or Cherries Jubilee tableside.

 

[bicker]

As for the whole tipping issue, everyone is gonna have different opinions on tipping and I find it pointless to argue about it. Im not gonna change anyone's minds, everyone else cant change anyone's mind, and etc.

That is absolutely not true. In another thread, we're talking about gratuities for housekeepers. I grew up in New York, so as far as I knew, you were always supposed to tip housekeepers. I had no idea that that was only true for some of the hotel chains in the country, that the rest (and now more and more) pay their housekeepers based on an assumption that they won't be tipped. I was on the "Thou must tip the housekeepers" brigade here on the DIS. Then I read messages from folks saying, "What are you talking about? Tipping housekeepers?!?!? Are you crazy?" Collectively we did some research, and I personally put the question to the GM from the BoardWalk Resort. Guess what? I learned that I was wrong! That Disney's housekeepers are non-tipped positions, and they aren't even supposed accept tips offered. Those discussions prompted me to learn the truth, and my mind was changed. This is clearly a more difficult situation, because it isn't just a matter of how the job is classified, but still.

One of my friends NEVER tip. Because she feels that she shouldnt have to give money to a stranger. And that its not her responsbility to have to worry about how that person pays their bills, buy food, etc.

That much is true: She should tip because tipping restaurant servers is proper conduct in our society -- everywhere.

Stop worrying about what others are doing and just do your own thing. If you saw someone jump off a bridge, would you feel the need to have to follow them and jump off a bridge to?

You're looking at it backwards. This isn't about someone jumping off a bridge -- it is about them not caring about what they throw off the side of the bridge, onto whatever happens to be below.

For example, I care a lot when people throw trash from their cars on the highway. I should post a photo of what our driveway looks like -- where do folks think that trash eventually goes? It doesn't disappear. It ends up spreading from the highway to the homes that line the highway.

Folks not tipping damages the system that we all live within. Those of us who are doing what is proper are ostensibly thereby subsidizing those who aren't. How is that fair?



Rolling back a bit in your message...

To me the whole DDP should just end. That way no one can complain why tipping isnt included anymore. Waiters dont have to worry about explaining how the DDP works and what they can get. Waiters dont have to worry about asking how they are gonna tip. Seems like the DDP is becoming more and more of a hassle then a good thing. It might have been a good deal in the past, but like the old saying - All good things must come to an end. And the DDP should just come to an end already. And who knows. Maybe then we can go back to NOT having to make ADRs 180 days in advance. We can actually just go to WDW with no ADRs and do a walk up.

It's an option, not a requirement. Nobody HAS to purchase the DDP. Guests who consider it a hassle or too much trouble or whatever can just pay cash for their food.

I don't disagree with anything Disney8704 has said here. (How's that for dodging the issue? ) What I do want to point out is the parallel between what I said about what Disney8704 said in the first quote in this message, and what Kaytie is saying here: The existence of the Dining Plan affects those who don't use it. It is again like dropping trash off the side of a bridge without regard to what's below or where the trash ends up going. The only reason to keep the Dining Plan is because it does more good for Disney's bottom-line than not offering it. If it were ever to be more damaging than beneficial to the bottom-line, then Disney should absolutely get rid of it. And beyond that, people have every right to care about the fact that it exists. They shouldn't "expect" Disney to get rid of it because they don't like it, or because CMs don't like it (because, again, all that matters is that it generates enough profit), but their disappointment with its existence is surely valid.

 

[bicker]

I tip - and with that out of the way - I don't understand why it's based on the total amount of your bill??? Shouldn't it be based on the amount of dishes / courses / ppl you have?

This is like asking why we drive on the right side of the road -- shouldn't we drive on the left? (Or vice versa, as the case may be.) In the end, if the question is being asked because you expect to pay less that way, on average, then your expectation is wrong. When people talk about changing the income tax from today's progressive tax structure to a "flat" tax, they're still talking about raising the same amount of tax revenue -- they're just shifting some of the burden from some people to some other people. And changing the gratuity structure would be like a flat tax, shifting some of the burden on to people who on average* are less affluent (i.e., more adversely affected by having more financial burden placed on them).

* Make sure you understand the term "on average" in the sentence above before you reply!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The waitress at the burger joint who serves our family of 4 burgers and fries and shakes is working much harder than the waiter who serves dh and I at the fine dining establishment - and yet who would get the higher tip? The fine dining waiter because the ticket was higher.

The waitress at the burger joint probably works harder than I do, yet I probably make a lot more than she does. If the waitress at the burger joint was able to get the better paying job, and wanted it, then that is what she should do.

 

[bicker]

So just because that restraunt might be more upscale doesnt mean its gonna be better.

And so you should choose the restaurant that you feel provides you the best value. That's the only relevant factor in play here.

 

[FayeW]

Those of us who are doing what is proper are ostensibly thereby subsidizing those who aren't. How is that fair?

Well, the reality is that you (the consumers) are already paying for your government to do the wrong thing. Your government has created a system where you are "responsible" to pay part of your server's wage. They have decided that wait staff, bartenders, etc do not deserve to earn the same minimum wage as everyone else. I have read in several threads that your government also taxes them on a percentage of their sales, so even if they didn't actually earn a tip on that sale, they pay tax as if they did. That is all kinds of wrong!

How come the Canadian and British employers can pay their wait staff the same minimum wage as everybody else and still have reasonable menu prices, but Americans are convinced that if they paid their staff minimum wage, menu prices would go through the roof?

 

[bicker]

The government didn't create the system. We The People created the system, long before the government stuck its nose into things like that. The government simply has allowed it to exist as we created it.

Americans evidently prefer this system, despite the fact that Canadians and British people perhaps don't. Of course, we like Monster Truck Rallies too.

 

[FayeW]

The government didn't create the system. We The People created the system, long before the government stuck its nose into things like that. The government simply has allowed it to exist as we created it.

Americans evidently prefer this system, despite the fact that Canadians and British people perhaps don't. Of course, we like Monster Truck Rallies too.

Well, then, the people were idiots.

But your (state) governments legalized the practice.

It's not a matter of Canadians or Brits preferring one system, and Americans preferring another. It is evidently the only system that you know, and, much like UHC, you (the general American population) are so afraid of how changes will effect you that you are unwilling to make changes that would be positive to others.

I think America is the only country that has this practice relying on gratuities to subsidize the hourly wage. If the rest of the civilized world can do it, why can't you?

 

[bicker]

Well, then, the people were idiots.

Very nice.

I think America is the only country that has this practice relying on gratuities to subsidize the hourly wage. If the rest of the civilized world can do it, why can't you?

Your assumption is wrong, but beyond that, your question assumes that your way is correct. That's not the case. Read my earlier message AGAIN. Our way is actually better from our standpoint.

I could ask: If we can operate our system our way, why can't you? The issues we have in this country is just a matter of a few isolated bits of dishonor... the vast majority of people do what they should. I'm confident that in your country people would be honorable enough to participate in a patron-dominated compensation system for servers, just like ours. I think the system would work fine there, if that was how things worked out.

 

[Mackey Mouse]

I am stepping in here just for a second to say that we cannot battle each other opinion's based on where we come from.....it tends to bring out the worst in people..

Please let's continue the conversation and try to remember that some who go to WDW and dine are from other countries and some of us dine and are from America......we can agree to disagree.. but please keep it nice.

 

[FayeW]

Very nice.

Your assumption is wrong, but beyond that, your question assumes that your way is correct. That's not the case. Read my earlier message AGAIN. Our way is actually better.

If we can operate our system our way, why can't you? The issues we have in this country is just a matter of a few isolated bits of dishonor... the vast majority of people do what they should. I cannot believe that you're saying that in your country people wouldn't be honorable enough to participate in a patron-dominated compensation system for servers. I know some Canadians. They do have honor, and I think the system would work fine there, if that was how things worked out.

Your system isn't better. Your wait staff are paid a pittance, far less than minimum wage. They rely on the largess of strangers to survive. I worked in the restaurant industry for more than 10 years as a university student/young adult. At least my hourly wage could pay my rent.

 

[bicker]

As Mackey said, we can agree to disagree. Reasonable people can prefer our system, and reasonable people can prefer your system. They're both valid.

The real issue, therefore, is that when here, our rules apply, just like when we are there, their rules apply.

 

[Mackey Mouse]

"The real issue, therefore, is that when here, our rules apply, just like when we are there, their rules apply."

Good point, Bicker...you do not have to like it, but when on someone else's turf, you should abide by their rules.. Makes me think of when I went to London, waiting and waiting and waiting to be served or to be acknowledged when just trying to buy a cup of tea. I thought to myself, well if they were working for tips, they would indeed try to turn over the table or acknowledge me when standing at the counter...but it was their country, so I learned lots of patience or I went without. Different strokes for different folks.

 

[bicker]

The one that I had the most trouble with was in Egypt, having to give “baksheesh” for one or two squares of toilet tissue in the bathroom (even though we brought our own with us).

 

[Mackey Mouse]

When I visited Monaco.....I was surprised, but prepared for the bathroom situation and paying for TP.. I also had my own with me.. This was on the grounds of the Grimaldi castle, I was a bit surprised, but once again and a bit off topic, their rules. You either tipped or you got no TP.