Any non-AP parents out there??

[Beccabunny]

Exactly. This whole thread is extremely negative. It's fine to not be AP. Each child and mother is unique, and AP doesn't appeal to everyone. What I don't understand is the constant bashing of those who consider themselves AP. If you look over the AP thread, you'll find a bunch of moms chatting -- not ridiculing other moms like in this thread.

I don't quite understand the point of starting a thread devoted to NOT following a certain philosophy, especially one full of misinformation and mean-spiritedness.

Flame away -- it's obvious some of you are quite good at it.

That thread was started in support of AP, but almost immediately many non-AP topics were discussed but were not identified as non-AP. Can you see why there would be misinformation about AP? Have you read anything over there lately? There's definitely some snarkiness when someone disagrees. In some ways I'm more AP than not, but I never posted there because of that kind of attitude.

 

[chobie]

That thread was started in support of AP, but almost immediately many non-AP topics were discussed but were not identified as non-AP. Can you see why there would be misinformation about AP? Have you read anything over there lately? There's definitely some snarkiness when someone disagrees. In some ways I'm more AP than not, but I never posted there because of that kind of attitude.

Some snarkiness, like calling non-Ap people Nazis? No, the only name-calling is coming from the non-AP side, so I would agree you do fit in more on this thread then the AP thread.


There is nothing to argue about breastfeeding. You either do it or not. But when you use an inflamatory word to describe people who disagree with you, then PC or not, it reflects on you.

 

[chobie]

The other "bashers" in my own personal experience (my in-laws and such) I found annoying, but in my opinion were not "Fanatical" and therefore did not warrant the term Nazi. Is this a political correctness forum? I thought we were discussing AP. But you really can't reasonably argue with anything I said about breastfeeding, so you have to latch onto a word you don't like, and yes, you are attacking me. I think you should re-direct your energies elsewhere

The point is not about being PC or not. You are right this is not a PC forum. However, trying to make the point that non AP parents are less judgmental than AP parents while at the same time calling AP parents a name associated with the worst atrocities committed on human beings in modern times, is a bit hypocritical.

 

[Stimpy]

Wow, I really thought this could become a nice thread where non-AP parents could come and chat, just like the AP parent thread (which I have never opened since I have no interest in it). Apparently, I was right when I first posted wayyy back on page 1 (or 2) that I knew that couldn't be possible without this thread turning nasty. That's really sad.

I am not against AP parenting, if it works for another family, that's great. Please stop trying to make me feel guilty or tell me my parenting skills are "bad" because I don't agree with yours.

I missed the "Nazi" comment (admittedly I only pop-in here once in a while and don't have a chance to read everything). I was never able to breastfeed for personal reasons which I will not discuss on an internet forum. I do not regret my decision one bit. (And yes I was attacked for my decision many many times) I also have absolutely no problem seeing another mother choosing to BF her own children. Even if I had a "problem" with it, it's really none of my business. (Just as it is no one else's business why I didn't) I have seen many mom's doing it and I always smile to them and go on my way.

While I do understand your anger at the term, please do not ruin this whole thread by focusing on it any longer. This is supposed to be a friendly supportive thread for us.

 

[chobie]

Wow, I really thought this could become a nice thread where non-AP parents could come and chat, just like the AP parent thread (which I have never opened since I have no interest in it). Apparently, I was right when I first posted wayyy back on page 1 (or 2) that I knew that couldn't be possible without this thread turning nasty. That's really sad.

I am not against AP parenting, if it works for another family, that's great. Please stop trying to make me feel guilty or tell me my parenting skills are "bad" because I don't agree with yours.

I missed the "Nazi" comment (admittedly I only pop-in here once in a while and don't have a chance to read everything). I was never able to breastfeed for personal reasons which I will not discuss on an internet forum. I do not regret my decision one bit. (And yes I was attacked for my decision many many times) I also have absolutely no problem seeing another mother choosing to BF her own children. Even if I had a "problem" with it, it's really none of my business. (Just as it is no one else's business why I didn't) I have seen many mom's doing it and I always smile to them and go on my way.

While I do understand your anger at the term, please do not ruin this whole thread by focusing on it any longer. This is supposed to be a friendly supportive thread for us.

You're right, I'm ruining this kind, friendly thread by saying its wrong to call people who disagree with you Nazis. It's not the name-calling that is wrong, its the pointing it out.

I do apologoize. Silly me, not like being referred to as mass murderer because I chose to BF.

 

[Stimpy]

You're right, I'm ruining this kind, friendly thread by saying its wrong to call people who disagree with you Nazis. It's not the name-calling that is wrong, its the pointing it out.

I do apologoize. Silly me, not like being referred to as mass murderer because I chose to BF.

Did you even read what I wrote??? I said you are absolutely right for being offended by the Nazi term. I am a non-BF mother and I agree it is offensive to BF moms. I haven't read the original post yet, but I have started rereading this entire thread to see how "evil" it is towards AP parenting. I am on page 7 now and haven't really found anything yet.

There are over 100 other posts here that were written to support other non-AP parents. If you read most of the posts, they not bashing AP parents at all. Almost all the posters have stated that each parent needs to do what they feel is best for their own families. Alot of the posters have stated they fall somewhere inbetween AP and Non-AP parenting. There are many parents in this thread who have or are also BF.

And BTW, it's not a one-way street. My own children are not stupid sickly children that a few BF parents like to believe in the pro BF and/or AP threads either

 

[chobie]

Did you even read what I wrote??? I said you are absolutely right for being offended by the Nazi term. I am a non-BF mother and I agree it is offensive to BF moms. I haven't read the original post yet, but I have started rereading this entire thread to see how "evil" it is towards AP parenting. I am on page 7 now and haven't really found anything yet.

There are over 100 other posts here that were written to support other non-AP parents. If you read most of the posts, they not bashing AP parents at all. Almost all the posters have stated that each parent needs to do what they feel is best for their own families. Alot of the posters have stated they fall somewhere inbetween AP and Non-AP parenting. There are many parents in this thread who have or are also BF.

And BTW, it's not a one-way street. My own children are not stupid sickly children that a few BF parents like to believe in the pro BF and/or AP threads either

This thread was started as a response to the AP thread. There are numerous comments to the affect that AP parents think that non AP parents are not good parents or that AP is the only way to parent (not just the only way for the people who choose AP).

Show us where on this thread or the AP thread where that was said or implied.

And BTW, that is what I've been saying all along--the bashing comes from all sides and its wrong no matter who does it. It's only human nature to feel like the bashing comments made about your own style or parenting are worse or more frequent than the bashing comments made about other people's choices.

 

[Gillian]

Chobie, I don't know much about you, and of course I don't want you to be offended, but I don't understand why you are hanging out here arguing with everyone. What's the point?

Both "sides" know what it's like to have their choices questioned by others. That's the nature of being a parent -- you will do things that your family, friends, neighbors, message board buddies, mailman, etc. will think are wrong. We all do the best we can, but sometimes the criticism (real or implied) gets frustrating and we need to vent. It's not meant to hurt anyone, it's just a way to get our feelings out.

The reason we have 2 threads is that there are different frustrations & criticisms. Parents who follow the AP method have different issues to discuss than those who do not.

I'd love to participate in this thread, but now it's just a big mean debate.

 

[chobie]

Chobie, I don't know much about you, and of course I don't want you to be offended, but I don't understand why you are hanging out here arguing with everyone. What's the point?

Both "sides" know what it's like to have their choices questioned by others. That's the nature of being a parent -- you will do things that your family, friends, neighbors, message board buddies, mailman, etc. will think are wrong. We all do the best we can, but sometimes the criticism (real or implied) gets frustrating and we need to vent. It's not meant to hurt anyone, it's just a way to get our feelings out.

The reason we have 2 threads is that there are different frustrations & criticisms. Parents who follow the AP method have different issues to discuss than those who do not.

I'd love to participate in this thread, but now it's just a big mean debate.

Really, referring to AP people as Nazis is not meant to offend anyone? Okay...

Here's a thought... stop responding to my posts about the Nazi comments
and go back to discussing your non AP ways. I have had no argument with any of those non AP ways, I have no argument with any one's choices regarding their kids.

I'm not arguing with "everyone" only posters that use a highly offensive term to describe AP parents and those who try to defend or deflect away from the offensiveness of that.

 

[Stimpy]

This thread was started as a response to the AP thread. There are numerous comments to the affect that AP parents think that non AP parents are not good parents or that AP is the only way to parent (not just the only way for the people who choose AP).

Show us where on this thread or the AP thread where that was said or implied.

And BTW, that is what I've been saying all along--the bashing comes from all sides and its wrong no matter who does it. It's only human nature to feel like the bashing comments made about your own style or parenting are worse or more frequent than the bashing comments made about other people's choices.

I absolutely agree with you on this. And I am willing to bet that if I did go to the AP thread, I would find many posts that I would find offensive to my parenting choices. That could be the part of the problem. A parent may read more into a statement from the "other side" than was really intended. (And let's agree to leave the Nazi comment out of this )

For example, I may get offended about the comments some people make on an AP thread about how much better BF is for their children and mother's that don't (or can't) do it are doing a great disservice to their children. The argument comes up that children who are BF are ahead of other children in intelligence and are healthier. I agree there are studies showing that, I agree BF is beneficial. To me, the inference is that the only way to have healthy, smart children is to BF. There are millions are children that are formula fed who are quite smart & healthy. If I thought about it rationally, I know they mean well, it's the way it's inferred that I am "wrong" and neglected my children or something that upsets me.

On the other hand, an AP parent may read on a non-AP thread about co-sleeping. Someone may post that they don't feel it's necessary to answer every baby's cry right away and the AP parent may see it as an inference that she personally is spoiling her own child by answering every cry immediately, which was probably not the case at all.

 

[DisneyPhD]

I think part of the way this thread made it onto the wrong foot is the title. Callining it non AP is rather like saying AP is wrong, or anti AP. For example, I am pro life. But a many people feel that term means if you are not, then you are anti life. That is not true. They prefer to say "pro-choice." (not to highjack the thread, just show an example.)

I realize that name came from lack of a better word. I have found most people who describe themselves as AP call other ways of parenting, "mainstream" meaning what most everyone else does or the average or typical way of parenting. You know, what you read in parent magazine. Also what was discussed the "smooth or crunchy?" parent thread a while ago on Dis.

My point on posting on the thread was 2 fold, one because I don't consider myself all AP, I do a little of both and am happy what way. 2 because given the title I thought people might have some misconceptions and might need some info on what AP really is. I posted to show that while I identify with AP, I am pretty much like most of the parents who don't. Not different, not strange, not pushing my views on others. Just another mother doing her job.

 

[chobie]

I absolutely agree with you on this. And I am willing to bet that if I did go to the AP thread, I would find many posts that I would find offensive to my parenting choices. That could be the part of the problem. A parent may read more into a statement from the "other side" than was really intended. (And let's agree to leave the Nazi comment out of this )

For example, I may get offended about the comments some people make on an AP thread about how much better BF is for their children and mother's that don't (or can't) do it are doing a great disservice to their children. The argument comes up that children who are BF are ahead of other children in intelligence and are healthier. I agree there are studies showing that, I agree BF is beneficial. To me, the inference is that the only way to have healthy, smart children is to BF. There are millions are children that are formula fed who are quite smart & healthy. If I thought about it rationally, I know they mean well, it's the way it's inferred that I am "wrong" and neglected my children or something that upsets me.

On the other hand, an AP parent may read on a non-AP thread about co-sleeping. Someone may post that they don't feel it's necessary to answer every baby's cry right away and the AP parent may see it as an inference that she personally is spoiling her own child by answering every cry immediately, which was probably not the case at all.

Agreed. I really don't want to ruin the thread. I started to identify with AP parenting because of the judgments I got from family members about breastfeeding, co-sleeping, not circumcizing. When I was pregant with my second, my first was 2 and still nursing, I was told by my family that if I did not wean her I would miscarry. I asked my doctor about this who said that was not true and then gave me some articles about AP parenting.


It is hurtful when someone implies you are harming your child and it is only natural to look for experts and like-minded people that agree with you.

 

[Stimpy]

I'm not arguing with "everyone" only posters that use a highly offensive term to describe AP parents and those who try to defend or deflect away from the offensiveness of that.

Ugh! Was this meant towards me? I was responding to your other post so I didn't see this until just now. Look, I have agreed with you that it's offensive, I'm not defending it at all! If anything, I have made it a point to agree with you and point out you are correct about it! You've mentioned it in 8 posts now. If you are waiting for an apology, the OP is not on-line and I don't know if she would want to give one or not.

I really don't want to sound so harsh! I do agree with you on several things. If I have said anything to offend, I apologize.

 

[chobie]

Ugh! Was this meant towards me? I was responding to your other post so I didn't see this until just now. Look, I have agreed with you that it's offensive, I'm not defending it at all! If anything, I have made it a point to agree with you and point out you are correct about it! You've mentioned it in 8 posts now. We get it! If you are waiting for an apology, the OP is not on-line and I don't know if she would want to give one or not.

She won't, I'm not and I just said I will drop it. Sorry to be strident about it. I'll stop mentioning it.

 

[Stimpy]

She won't, I'm not and I just said I will drop it. Sorry to be strident about it. I'll stop mentioning it.

I was just editting my OP.....sorry to sound so harsh!! I really do agree with you on several points. I'm just a slow typer this morning and can't keep up

 

[badblackpug]

Bottle fed, circumcised, immunized, disposable diapers, cribs, public school.

By the way...The doctor who did the study between the MMR vaccine and autism is being brought up on charges because of his no ethical research methods. Apparently his method of determining the link were less than scientific, and he went more on antecdotal evidence. There has never been an established link between MMR and autism.

 

[Stimpy]

I think part of the way this thread made it onto the wrong foot is the title. Callining it non AP is rather like saying AP is wrong, or anti AP. For example, I am pro life. But a many people feel that term means if you are not, then you aren't anti life. That is not true. They prefer to say "pro-choice." (not to highjack the thread, just show an example.)

I realize that name came from lack of a better word. I have found most people who describe themselves as AP call other ways of parenting, "mainstream" meaning what most everyone else does or the average or typical way of parenting. You know, what you read in parent magazine. Also what was discussed the "smooth or crunchy?" parent thread a while ago on Dis.

My point on posting on the thread was 2 fold, one because I don't consider myself all AP, I do a little of both and am happy what way. 2 because given the title I thought people might have some misconceptions and might need some info on what AP really is. I posted to show that while I identify with AP, I am pretty much like most of the parents who don't. Not different, not strange, not pushing my views on others. Just another mother doing her job.

I think you are right. The "non" sounds too negative. I don't think the OP meant it that way and meant well. I think she meant to make a place for parents who parent differently than dedicated AP parents do. (And there is nothing wrong with AP parenting!)

I've actually learned alot from this thread since I knew very little about AP parenting. I found I do some things and never realized it was AP in nature. It's just what I felt was right for my family.

 

[letthewookiewin]

Both of my children slept in cribs. However for the first 10 months of my oldest DS's life, his crib was in our bedroom. He was a preemie, born at 32 weeks, and came home with a heart monitor. Both were circumcised, had all immunizations, wore disposable diapers, and are in public schools. My children have been spanked, but it is not the only form of punishment we use. I tried breast feeding, but it didn't work. Instead, I pumped for at least 6 months with both DSs.

 

[badblackpug]

Oh wow, I just read the entire thread, and how this has degenerated. To address the "Nazi" comment. The OP used the term "breastfeeding Nazi's" not meaning literally "Nazi" as in a follower of Hitler, for heaven's sake. I think she meant it in the sense of those who are adamantly pushing breastfeeding without considering any other options.(the "The Soup Nazi" on Seinfeld) I have met these people. I am not saying that everyone who is a proponent of breastfeeding fits this mold, but there are definitely those out there who do. I have met the people who tell you that you are a bad parent, that you ar neglecting or mistreating your child by not breastfeeding. The ones who guilt you into breast feeding, even if it is not the right choice for you. Again, this is a minor majority of breastfeeders, but they are out there, and they do this.

As for how you raise your children, you do what is best for YOU. Everybody has different needs and priorities in their lives. That does not mean that they are the better parent, they are just different parents. (and there is a certain tone of sanctimony on both sides of the argument, whether either side sees it or not)

On to the co-sleeping thing. If you do it, fine, it is your choice. I have personally seen (I work in the emergency room) 4 infants who were smothered to death by co-sleeping parents. Although people say it "never happens" it does. This would be the main reason I would not choose to co-sleep. I don't think I could live with myself..................

 

[Mkrop]

Oh wow, I just read the entire thread, and how this has degenerated. To address the "Nazi" comment. The OP used the term "breastfeeding Nazi's" not meaning literally "Nazi" as in a follower of Hitler, for heaven's sake. I think she meant it in the sense of those who are adamantly pushing breastfeeding without considering any other options.(the "The Soup Nazi" on Seinfeld) I have met these people. I am not saying that everyone who is a proponent of breastfeeding fits this mold, but there are definitely those out there who do. I have met the people who tell you that you are a bad parent, that you ar neglecting or mistreating your child by not breastfeeding. The ones who guilt you into breast feeding, even if it is not the right choice for you. Again, this is a minor majority of breastfeeders, but they are out there, and they do this.

As for how you raise your children, you do what is best for YOU. Everybody has different needs and priorities in their lives. That does not mean that they are the better parent, they are just different parents. (and there is a certain tone of sanctimony on both sides of the argument, whether either side sees it or not)

On to the co-sleeping thing. If you do it, fine, it is your choice. I have personally seen (I work in the emergency room) 4 infants who were smothered to death by co-sleeping parents. Although people say it "never happens" it does. This would be the main reason I would not choose to co-sleep. I don't think I could live with myself..................

Thanks for stating this much better than I could. I have been reading the thread all along and thought it was a nice conversation. I guess a better term could have been used by I also took her comment along the same lines as "the soup Nazi".

I dont know what the more appropriate term would be for those who are so passionate about BF that they fell it is ok to bash those who cant. While I BF I never had anyone say an unkind word to me, and when I struggled and felt guilty and horrible and like a bad mother on my own, many people supported my decision to stop, but then when I made this decsion the "passionate" people arrived and treated me like garbage for even considering this choice, did you consult a lactation consultant (yes at $75/hr), you didnt give it chance ( Iwasnt producing and I had inverted nipples and had to wear cones on my breasts (think Madonna in the 80's) and couldnt leave my house bc I looked like a complete freak with those on. Anyway the comments were pretty nasty, some from people who didnt even know me! Then I tried again with my second son and encountered the same issues and the same comments. It was very sad that people could be like this.

I always supported BF and I tell my friends now who ask to give it a shot, bc the people who are successful seem to love it but do what feels comfortable for you, is the main point of it all!

Parenting is the hardest job and people bashing each other just makes it harder.