"Entitled Selfishness": Great article on the dismal future of Social Security

[runwad]

Ok now I'm curious and totally clueless but what do other countries do? Do they have any form of retirement programs for their citizens??? Just wondering if anyone else does something along these lines successfully that we could model?

 

[cdrn1]

I'm a tail-end boomer. While I'm not planning on *needing* social security to retire, I'm going to be mighty PO'ed if I've paid into it for 50 years and there's nothing there for me when I retire. As of right now, I've personally paid about $100,000 into it over the past 30 years. That's a lot of money that had I been able to invest it on my own, it would have netted me a nice nest egg at retirement.

Frankly it's highly doubtful that I'll live long enough after I retire at 67 to come close to recouping with the governemnt has taken from me all these years with the promise of a payout in my senior years. The end year boomers are the ones who will have paid in the longest and gotten nothing for it--the ones who will get screwed.

Anne

Absolutely agree. With each paycheck I see a huge amount of money withdrawn in the name of Social Security, with very little chance of ever seeing a return on my involuntary "investment". Let me have my hard-earned money; I would do very nicely on my own.

 

[ducklite]

Ok now I'm curious and totally clueless but what do other countries do? Do they have any form of retirement programs for their citizens??? Just wondering if anyone else does something along these lines successfully that we could model?

I believe Canada has a similar model to our SS, but the have a quasi-socialist system where medical care is also socialized, and they've got the taxes to prove it. Seeing a doctor, let alone a good one in Canada can be nearly impossible in some areas. I definitely don't like that, I'd much rather keep a free market economy where if you can afford to pay for health care over and above any provided for free (ie uninsured or those on welfare) you can get to choose from the best doctors and have no waiting.

Whiel I believe that basic health care should be provided for all through sliding scale fee community clinics for example, those who use them should expect it to take longer to see the doctor, not get a choice in doctors, and get nothing more than basic preventative and emergency care. In other words if you've go to a community dental clinic for a rotten tooth and don't have insurance, expect it to be pulled rather than to get an expensive root canal. Of course if you can come up with the cash to pay, then go for the root canal.

In thinking about it, I"m pretty sure teh UK has the same system as Canada.

Anne

 

[snowwite]

Absolutely agree. With each paycheck I see a huge amount of money withdrawn in the name of Social Security, with very little chance of ever seeing a return on my involuntary "investment". Let me have my hard-earned money; I would do very nicely on my own.

I totally agree!

 

[disneysteve]

I think teh government also needs to do a MUCH better job of informing people that they will need more than SS, and they can't count on pensions in thier retirement. Frankly I do'nt think they are currently doing enough to encourage people to save for retirement.

I agree. The front page of the annual SS statement is filled with text that I'm sure most people totally ignore, just opening to page 2 to see the numbers. But buried on that first page is this:

"Social Security is the largest source of income for most elderly Americans today. It is very important to remember that Social Security was never intended to be your only source of income when you retire. Social Security can't do it all. You also will need other savings, investments, pensions or retirement accounts to make sure you have enough money to live comfortably when you retire."

I think they need to get rid of everything else on that page and just print the above paragraph in great big bold letters.

 

[disneysteve]

My favorite word -- when it comes to budgeting -- is BALANCE. If you need and can afford a new pair of jeans, great. There's no need to deny yourself things under those circumstances. The problem comes in when either you genuinely don't have money, and you choose to buy on credit with no clue how you'll pay, or when you already have a dozen pair of jeans and you just want another pair in this particular style.

Another option is to change where you buy your jeans. DW and DD both buy their jeans at one of two places: Goodwill or Village Thrift (a large local shop). Top price is $4.99 at Goodwill. Village Thrift is usually less than that. DW loves it because she can get 3 pairs of name brand stylish jeans for less than the price of 1 pair of generic store brand jeans.

This is just an isolated example, but my point is that even when you do need or even want something, there are often many options as to how or where to get that item. Earlier today, we had a conversation with some friends about online shopping. Several people, us included, shared examples of bargains we've found online. We all agreed that anyone who doesn't at least do a search online before buying just about anything is probably overpaying. For example, both DD and DW got iPods recently - pure "want" items absolutely, but ones we can easily afford. We looked at the new nanos in stores and they are cool looking with their colorful aluminum cases, but they are $149. So we went online and bought refurbished 1st generation white nanos for $99 each. They didn't get the latest models but we saved $100 in the process and they were just thrilled to get the ones they got.

 

[disneysteve]

Thanks for those GREAT tips, steve... You're swell.. I always knew there was "something" about you that I really liked..

You're welcome.

 

[kinntj]

I did apply for SSDI for my mother many moths ago. That has been a pleasure in itself. We live in an area where the cost of living is crazy and $700.00 a month is not going to even begin to support anyone. Medicare also does not pay for many things my mother needs. The medical bills alone will be way over $700.00 a month.

I'd love to get even a part time job. It just isn't possible at this time. I had no idea how much was involved with totally caring for a parent. I do try to ebay when I get the chance. (what I'm doing while I'm here)

The good news is I'm only 37 and my mortgage will be paid off in 7 years and I have no credit card debt! That should free up money to save for retirement. *fingers crossed* Maybe I should start saving a little while I pay all of the medical bills. I just want so much to be out of debt.

Anyway, thank you for the kind words. Sorry about my rant. I guess I'm just tired.

My best advice is not to have a false sense of security because you have medical insurance. We have really good medical insurance but the bills still pile up big time if you have a medical catastrophe. I didn't realize that until we were put in this position. Hope no one here has to deal with medical issues!

I'm so sorry for all the hardships you've had in the past and that you're going through now. I don't have any idea what you're going through, it's gotta be tough. Taking care of a disabled person is very stressful on the family and it's hard. My family is finally able to breathe a little because my sister went into a group home and she loves it there. She was diagnosed with Schizophrenia and has been a huge burden on my mom for many years. Finally my mom was getting too old to take care of her, so she had to call for help.

I just pray that your situation gets better for you and you find yourself some breathing room.

I will keep you in my thoughts as your families health continues to remain good.
it seems you are working as hard as you can right now and I commend you for doing such a great job. Not alot of families would do what you're doing.

 

[ducklite]

I think they need to get rid of everything else on that page and just print the above paragraph in great big bold letters.

Better yet, make people read and sign that disclosure and send it back before sending out teh acutal earnings record statement. Maybe do that every five years as a reminder?

Anne

 

[kinntj]

Another option is to change where you buy your jeans. DW and DD both buy their jeans at one of two places: Goodwill or Village Thrift (a large local shop). Top price is $4.99 at Goodwill. Village Thrift is usually less than that. DW loves it because she can get 3 pairs of name brand stylish jeans for less than the price of 1 pair of generic store brand jeans.

This is just an isolated example, but my point is that even when you do need or even want something, there are often many options as to how or where to get that item. Earlier today, we had a conversation with some friends about online shopping. Several people, us included, shared examples of bargains we've found online. We all agreed that anyone who doesn't at least do a search online before buying just about anything is probably overpaying. For example, both DD and DW got iPods recently - pure "want" items absolutely, but ones we can easily afford. We looked at the new nanos in stores and they are cool looking with their colorful aluminum cases, but they are $149. So we went online and bought refurbished 1st generation white nanos for $99 each. They didn't get the latest models but we saved $100 in the process and they were just thrilled to get the ones they got.

Oh man. See, I should have waited until tomorrow to buy the jeans. I knew one day I wanted to go to Goodwill to buy jeans and I forgot. I saw the ad paper for JCPenney today and went there and ripped the tags off already.
Now I know to ask you guys before I buy anything so that It becomes a habit. Oy.

My Dh always shops online before buying stuff, especially tech/elec items. You got a great deal on those ipods! We need to buy a computer when DH gets his bonus and have been pricing online and the ad's that come in the paper. I know we'll get a decent price when we're ready to buy with cash in hand. Thanks for the tip.

Again, I'll have to ask you guys where the bargains are when I need something.

 

[MrsPete]

I just don't buy that. No one is holding a gun to anyone's head. Again, a matter of personal responsibility.

I agree that one's personal finances ultimately come down to personal responsibility -- just like almost everything else in the world -- BUT I also think it's harder in today's world. Advertising is pervasive -- almost predatory -- and it's everywhere. Everywhere you turn, someone's promising this or that thing that will change your life, and it's so easy to charge it! I think it takes more effort to resist these things than it did in the past, PLUS we are doing a great job of teaching our children to give in to instant gratification.

 

[MrsPete]

I have 2 children who have multiple medical issues . . . My husband and I could have claimed bankruptcy, but we did the right thing and spent years using every penny we had to pay off the bills . . . my mother had a routine surgery . . . I had to quit my job so my brother and I can provide the 24 hour care. She didn't save for retirement so now we are left trying to take care of her financially along with the medical bills my 2 sons still have.

You've certainly had more than your share of medical troubles, and I can see why saving is more difficult for you; however, I don't think yours is a typical story. I suspect that very few people are without retirement savings because of reasons like yours. I think the vast majority of got-no-retirement-folks just plain haven't saved.

 

[MrsPete]

I'm not sure that a class in school would work, it's just too foreign a concept for teenagers who think they are invincible, old people (anyone over 30) are clueless, and just do'nt care. It seems that SOCIETY needs to target young adults as they hit thier mid-20's, the time that they should be starting to save, and the point in their lives that they might just be bothered to pay attention if the material was presented in a manner that appealed to them.

I teach English, and I've tried to bring in financial articles for classroom assignments -- you know, things that should be of interest to high school seniors: college money information, the real cost of credit cards, etc. Every time I've tried, it's been a monumental flop. The students don't see it as relevant to them personally; they see it as something for adults -- even though they're going to walk across the stage in five months!

One of my neighbors works for one of the big brokerage houses, and he was telling me about a young guy at the firm who has brought in a ton of new clients. He's doing "your financial future" seminars--at a local bar that young adults frequent. Free beer and finger foods for attendees (company reimburses it as an expense) and he gives the presentation in terms they can understand. Driving sports cars, drinking beer, and going on cruises with topless sunbathing decks in retirement. He signs up an average of 10 guys into IRA's each time he does it, and has gotten a bunch of them to also open investment accounts. Most of these guys are single skilled labor blue collar types who would NEVER be saving like this on thier own. And the word is spreading as these guys are seeing thier money grown over 18 months or so. Interesting concept--reaching out to them on their terms, on an emotional level they understand.

That guy will go far.

 

[snowwite]

I agree. The front page of the annual SS statement is filled with text that I'm sure most people totally ignore, just opening to page 2 to see the numbers. But buried on that first page is this:

"Social Security is the largest source of income for most elderly Americans today. It is very important to remember that Social Security was never intended to be your only source of income when you retire. Social Security can't do it all. You also will need other savings, investments, pensions or retirement accounts to make sure you have enough money to live comfortably when you retire."

I think they need to get rid of everything else on that page and just print the above paragraph in great big bold letters.

But my statement also tells me how much I will be able to start collecting at 67 yrs of age. How was I supposed to know that was code for we are planning to completely pull the rug out from under you and rip you off?

 

[MrsPete]

Another option is to change where you buy your jeans. DW and DD both buy their jeans at one of two places: Goodwill or Village Thrift (a large local shop). Top price is $4.99 at Goodwill. Village Thrift is usually less than that. DW loves it because she can get 3 pairs of name brand stylish jeans for less than the price of 1 pair of generic store brand jeans.

This is just an isolated example, but my point is that even when you do need or even want something, there are often many options as to how or where to get that item. Earlier today, we had a conversation with some friends about online shopping. Several people, us included, shared examples of bargains we've found online. We all agreed that anyone who doesn't at least do a search online before buying just about anything is probably overpaying. For example, both DD and DW got iPods recently - pure "want" items absolutely, but ones we can easily afford. We looked at the new nanos in stores and they are cool looking with their colorful aluminum cases, but they are $149. So we went online and bought refurbished 1st generation white nanos for $99 each. They didn't get the latest models but we saved $100 in the process and they were just thrilled to get the ones they got.

Yeah, but when I buy one pair of jeans every other year, it just doesn't matter too much how much I pay -- it's still not going to add up to a whole lot! Socks. That's what I'm constantly buying. I'm sure I spend more on socks than on jeans.

Seriously, though, my favorite place to buy jeans -- for myself and my daughter who's wearing adult sizes now -- is the Plato's Closet (nice consignment store) near the university. The near the university thing is key; they have a great stock of all the current styles, so my daughter doesn't see it as a sacrafice to shop there. Great selection, most jeans run $5-10. My Goodwill isn't very good. More often than not, I come out empty handed, so I've really quit trying there.

Broadening the subject a little, I have several "used sources", which often try before shopping for new stuff. The salvage store is great for cheap food. Ebay's good for just about everything; recently I even bought a case of ziplock bags on ebay and split them with a friend -- they were less than half the price of ziplocks at the store. My oldest daughter just received an ipod for Christmas; it came from ebay.

Now, can someone tell me where I can get a LARGE quantity (2 large rooms + the hallway + a large entryway) of Pergo flooring CHEAP? I can find two boxes or so on ebay, and Lowes/Home Depot have a few custom-ordered boxes that were never picked up for very cheap. But where can I get enough to match the rooms cheap?

 

[ducklite]

Yeah, but when I buy one pair of jeans every other year, it just doesn't matter too much how much I pay -- it's still not going to add up to a whole lot! Socks. That's what I'm constantly buying. I'm sure I spend more on socks than on jeans.

For me it's flip-flops. Really. Since I moved to Florida I seem to chew through three or four pair a year! but at under $15 a pair, it's not a big deal. And frankly I don't want to buy used flip-flops. Yuck.

Anne

 

[MrsPete]

For me it's flip-flops. Really. Since I moved to Florida I seem to chew through three or four pair a year! but at under $15 a pair, it's not a big deal. And frankly I don't want to buy used flip-flops. Yuck.

Anne

I bought my daughter's Rainbow flip-flops (required footwear for all pre-teens and teens) on ebay. They were $23 including shipping (brand new); they're $40 at the mall.

 

[disneysteve]

Oh man. See, I should have waited until tomorrow to buy the jeans. I knew one day I wanted to go to Goodwill to buy jeans and I forgot. I saw the ad paper for JCPenney today and went there and ripped the tags off already.
Now I know to ask you guys before I buy anything so that It becomes a habit. Oy.

I didn't mean that you, personally, should have bought used jeans. I was just making the point that when one needs or wants something, whether it be a pair of jeans, an iPod, ziploc bags, dog food, whatever... there are always multiple options as to where to shop, some cheaper, some more costly. We all get to pick which of those options is right for us and right for our budget. Personally, I am not a clothes guy. When I do buy clothes, I very rarely buy used because I simply haven't found a good source in my area. My wife and daughter, however, do really well at Goodwill and the local thrift shops. Now when I want a DVD, I rarely buy new. I know I can find used copies online for a fraction of the original price. Even a couple of DD's Chanukah presents this year were bought used online. She knew I got them used and couldn't have cared less. All she cared about was that she got the DVDs she was asking for. We're doing our best to teach her that there is no harm and certainly no shame in shopping secondhand because it leaves you with more money for other purposes, including saving for the future.

 

[dcfromva]

Then maybe the problem is how do we wake up the ones who do'nt know better but WOULD start to save if they did?

Anne

ducklite,
I started to save for retirement when I first entered the work force. My grandparents said it was important to save for retirement (they were just getting themselves set into retirement at that time). My grandparent's lifestyle was a modest one, but they always had everything they needed/wanted-no worries. I didn't have a clue about finances, but I saw how they had prepared themselves. I started an IRA when it was first available and then it spurred me on to do more research and learn more and do more planning.
Without having my Grandparents example, I doubt I would have thought about funding retirement in my 20's or even 30's.
I think that parents/grandparents have a huge influence on passing along this type of information to their kids. (Maybe this board might serve to increase awareness and spur folks on to more retirement planning, too.)
-DC

 

[ducklite]

My son is a big gamer. He buys almost all of his games used. A video rental place near us went out of business and he bought about 20 PS2 games for $3-5 a piece, originally $30 and up.

Anne