"Entitled Selfishness": Great article on the dismal future of Social Security

[DiznEeyore]

But for anyone under 50, there's no screwing, they still ahve time to change their lifestyle and save for thier future. I have NO sympathy for people who are in thier 30's and 40's and don't ahve a dime in retirement funds yet. They are just stupid, and frankly can eat out of garbage cans for all I care if they don't change their ways.
Anne

Wow. Just ... wow.

 

[ducklite]

And I think this may be the truest thing I've read in this thread.

No matter what we do, if people have a choice about what to do with their retirement money, MANY of them will choose to not save a bit.

What then do we do about their welfare in their retirement years?

I don't know what solution there is.

Frankly, anyone who is under 45 right now knows better. Whether they choose to do anything about it really not the problem of the rest of the world. Like I said in an earlier post, we need to have some sort of bottom of the barrel safe guard, but it would basically mean the equivelent of welfare, being forced to liquidate assets before being able to apply for "workfare" and unless they were physically or mentally incapable, being forced to "work" for the check. They could be forced to do anything from help out in libraries or schools to doing clerical work in a county office to doing janitorial work in public buildings to being an usher at public events, etc.

If the politicians put this on the table right now, it might wake some people up.

Anne

 

[Amii]

But for anyone under 50, there's no screwing, they still ahve time to change their lifestyle and save for thier future. I have NO sympathy for people who are in thier 30's and 40's and don't ahve a dime in retirement funds yet. They are just stupid, and frankly can eat out of garbage cans for all I care if they don't change their ways.

Boy, Do I wish I could change places with you for a few days so you can see how lucky you really are.

 

[ducklite]

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I too think this is a little harsh - because you don't know the particulars of everyones situations - but - I wouldn't have an awful lot of sympathy for those who spend $1000 per child (or more) on Christmas gifts for their children; buy expensive cars with huge car payments; buy homes that are 2 or 3 times the size needed to live comfortably; buy every new electronic gadget that comes along; eats dinnner out multiple times a week; takes numerous expensive vacations per year; and a multitude of other things - just because they have the money "now" - with no thought to "later".. I don't believe that every single extra penny needs to be saved, but on the other hand, you can see right here on the DIS a tremendous amount of overspending and waste that should be put aside for the future.. "Instant gratification" has become a MAJOR problem in our society and sadly, it's being passed right down to the younger generation..

Still - I would never go so far as to say "someone can eat out of a garbage can for all I care"..

BTW--We fit into many of the above categories. We spend a lot on Christmas for our ONE child (a lot of this years "loot" was clothes he needed for work and socks/underwear/etc.) we eat out a lot, take vacations at least once a year--although due to owning DVC, not all are "expensive." We have three cars, two are paid in full, one isn't, but I'm making about the interest rate with my investments, so it's a wash. Our home is larger than we really need, but we bought at the right time and it doubled in value in two years. That said we also lived well below our means for years to be able to buy this house. We drive Saturns and a Prius, hardly expensive cars, and all three are fuel efficient--the worst of them gets 26 mpg averaged between city and highway.

We've also got substantial retirement savings stashed away, more than what the experts say we should for a comfortable retirement at this age. I continue to work a second job as well as have started two businesses on top of the day job to afford some of lifes luxuries.

We have a lot of nice things, but we have also put priorities first. If our investments weren't well funded, I wouldn't be driving my roadster for example. And really when it comes down to it, it's all about priorities.

My priorities now are to have a comfortable retirement. I'm willing to sacrifice now to make that happen. I do'nt understand why anyone who chose thier priorities differently should feel entitled to a "bail-out" down the road.

Anne

 

[C.Ann]

Like I said in an earlier post, we need to have some sort of bottom of the barrel safe guard, but it would basically mean the equivelent of welfare, being forced to liquidate assets before being able to apply for "workfare" and unless they were physically or mentally incapable, being forced to "work" for the check. They could be forced to do anything from help out in libraries or schools to doing clerical work in a county office to doing janitorial work in public buildings to being an usher at public events, etc.

If the politicians put this on the table right now, it might wake some people up.

Anne

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If they had been doing this all along, the welfare system wouldn't be the mess that it is now..

The only "flaw" I see in that plan is that the check would have to be sufficient to include rent and transportation (if all assests were liquidated) and not all areas have low rent or public transportation..

 

[ducklite]

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Don't even get me started on clothes.. The outrageous prices and the sheer amount of clothing that some people "have to have"..

Well, that's a very subjective statement. You would probably cringe if you knew how much I spend on my clothes. But frankly I do'nt spend more than I can afford. Isn't that what it's really all about?

Anne

 

[C.Ann]

BTW--We fit into many of the above categories.

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The difference being you "did" and "do" plan for the future..

 

[ducklite]

Wow. Just ... wow.

So you feel that those who bother to save for retirement should ten have to be penalized in favor of those who shucked personal responsibility in favor of a spend every penny lifestyle?

That's punishing those with personal responsibility and integrity, and frankly the biggest problem in our declining society.

Anne

 

[C.Ann]

Well, that's a very subjective statement. You would probably cringe if you knew how much I spend on my clothes. But frankly I do'nt spend more than I can afford. Isn't that what it's really all about?

Anne

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Again - the difference being you already HAVE all your "ducks in a row.."

Of course I would probably still "cringe" if I knew how much you spent on clothes, but just because I don't need or want those kind of clothes.. LOL I'm so "down to earth" and "basic", sometimes I scare myself..

 

[ducklite]

Boy, Do I wish I could change places with you for a few days so you can see how lucky you really are.

I'm not lucky, I'm a hard worker. Almost my entire adult life I've worked two and three jobs. I've done so to be able to save for my future while still having little luxuries in my life. I'm also able to seperate my wants from my needs, and IMHO saving for retirement is a need that trumps all wants.

That's a concept that many just don't get.

Anne

 

[ducklite]

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If they had been doing this all along, the welfare system wouldn't be the mess that it is now..

The only "flaw" I see in that plan is that the check would have to be sufficient to include rent and transportation (if all assests were liquidated) and not all areas have low rent or public transportation..

The way welfare works is that they can keep a car but it can't be worth over $X (might be $3K, not sure). Most welfare recipients also recieve direct payment to a landlord for reasonable and customary rent for the area, and in general welfare recipients are shuffled into section eight housing or public housing as soon as there are openings. It could be modeled the same way.

Anne

 

[ducklite]

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Again - the difference being you already HAVE all your "ducks in a row.."

Of course I would probably still "cringe" if I knew how much you spent on clothes, but just because I don't need or want those kind of clothes.. LOL I'm so "down to earth" and "basic", sometimes I scare myself..

I also don't buy that many clothes, and tend to buy very classic styles that I wear until they fall off my back. This past year I've bought two pair of chino's, a pair of jeans to replace a pair that disinegrated, half a dozen shirts--all on sale, and a sweater. that sweater was my deal of the year--by a favorite designer, originally $180, I paid $30.

Anne

 

[dvcgirl]

Frankly, anyone who is under 45 right now knows better. Whether they choose to do anything about it really not the problem of the rest of the world. Like I said in an earlier post, we need to have some sort of bottom of the barrel safe guard, but it would basically mean the equivelent of welfare, being forced to liquidate assets before being able to apply for "workfare" and unless they were physically or mentally incapable, being forced to "work" for the check. They could be forced to do anything from help out in libraries or schools to doing clerical work in a county office to doing janitorial work in public buildings to being an usher at public events, etc.

If the politicians put this on the table right now, it might wake some people up.

Anne

While I agree that many people under 45 know that they should be saving for retirement, many simply have no *clue* how much they'll really need. Most people are positively shocked when they first see their "number". They think..."I can't possibly need one or even *two* million dollars when I retire...we're not rich, and that would make us rich." The truth is, if you have no pension and make 80K combined (and believe that SS will be there in full), you'll need at least one million dollars to maintain something close to your quality of life in retirement. You'll pull 40K from your cool million, and you'll get another 17K or so from SS. That will give you about 70% of your previous income....so you'll be taking a paycut too. Still, if you've paid off the house, maybe gone down to one car, you should be okay...but this isn't going to be a budget with a ton of frills in it either.

A lot of financial planners say that people often get so discouraged when they see the "number" that they just give up. Of course, the problem is that many people are visiting with a financial planner for the first time in their 50s, when it's too late to make major adjustments or catch up.

I really think that some very basic personal finance courses need to become mandatory for high school students. I have a couple of degrees and read about this stuff all of the time. A lot of people just don't have the knowledge for this stuff, others would rather eat paint chips than have to think about it. Forget learning about it.

Corporate America used to do all of the work for their employees. They collected the funds automatically, invested them, and then distributed them in retirement. People knew what their pension check would be, and they knew what social security would be....and most would be just fine.

Now we're trying to get everyone to save the funds themselves. We all know how that's going. Then we need them to invest those funds appropriately. Now we have too many invested too conservatively and others too heavily weighted in their own companies stock. And finally, we need for them to know how much to pull out each year in retirement. We really need a massive education program dealing with this issue.

 

[C.Ann]

I also don't buy that many clothes, and tend to buy very classic styles that I wear until they fall off my back. This past year I've bought two pair of chino's, a pair of jeans to replace a pair that disinegrated, half a dozen shirts--all on sale, and a sweater. that sweater was my deal of the year--by a favorite designer, originally $180, I paid $30.

Anne

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In the past year I have bought winter boots (so of course we haven't had any snow); 3 fleece sleeveless vests for $4.99 each; and a pair of windbreaker pants for $4.99.. That's the most I've bought in SEVERAL years!! I'm just a hopeless cheapskate..

 

[ducklite]

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In the past year I have bought winter boots (so of course we haven't had any snow); 3 fleece sleeveless vests for $4.99 each; and a pair of windbreaker pants for $4.99.. That's the most I've bought in SEVERAL years!! I'm just a hopeless cheapskate..

But...you don't ahve to go to work in an office every day either.

Since I changed jobs and went to a business casual atmosphere as opposed to an ultra-conservative corporate atmosphere, I buy a LOT less clothes, and my dry-cleaning bills are almost zero. I just had the wool throw from my sofa dry cleaned, that was the only thing in the past six months or so.

Anne

 

[C.Ann]

But...you don't ahve to go to work in an office every day either.

Anne

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This is true.. But every office job I ever did hold, had a very casual dress code so I got lucky there!

 

[MrsPete]

Cell Phone
Cable TV
Netflix subscription
Unlimited calling home phone
Gym memberships
Rhapsody or yahoo music subscription
Internet service
Monthly Tivo Service fee
Audible.com membership
Lawn service
Housekeeper
Pool Membership

Yep, these are the kind of things that drive our budgets upward; however, we must realize that all of them are LUXURIES, not necessities. I've never had 7 of the things on this list, and I certainly am not deprived.

Example: I have a membership to a little community pool three blocks from my house. It's $280/summer and is open from June 1 to September 30. It's not much of a pool, but it's a great value for my family. Since I'm a teacher, I'm home all summer, and my girls get tired of just being here at the house. We can walk to the pool, and they can meet friends. We get a lot of use out of that $280 membership.

HOWEVER, if we were seriously short on cash, we'd have to realize that this membership IS a luxury. Just because something's a good value doesn't mean we should buy it.

 

[MrsPete]

Frankly, anyone who is under 45 right now knows better.

I don't think I agree. I think everyone "knows" on some level that they should be saving money, but I think MANY people assume there's plenty of time later . . . it'll all just work out . . . it'll be easier to save once I get the promotion, once the kids are all in school, once we move to the new house, once the kids are out of the house . . . And I don't think everyone realizes just how much difference it makes to start YOUNG.

 

[MrsPete]

Boy, Do I wish I could change places with you for a few days so you can see how lucky you really are.

I don't presume to speak for anyone else, but I'll tell you about my own LUCK: I was born an American citizen with a healthy body and a good brain. The first seven years of my life were idealistic, and my childhood went downhill from there. For the rest of my childhood I lived in poverty. My father abandoned us when I was in middle school. As a teen I essentially raised my younger siblings. In college, I qualified for lots of financial aid, but my mother/stepfather blocked me from getting much of it.

I worked like a dog to get through college because I felt it was better to work hard and do without for a few more years than to remain in low-wage jobs forever. I didn't graduate in four years, but I did avoid debt (largely because I never saw next month's paycheck as a sure thing, and debt terrified me).

I married a man with similar values, and we've worked hard for everything we have.

Luck? Yes, luck was involved: I never suffered any major medical issues during the times I was without insurance. I had the intelligence and the drive to complete my college work AND work full-time. But my hard work was much, much more significant than my luck.

 

[ducklite]

Yep, these are the kind of things that drive our budgets upward; however, we must realize that all of them are LUXURIES, not necessities. I've never had 7 of the things on this list, and I certainly am not deprived.

You and me both...

Cell Phone--have one, it's also my business phone

Cable TV--basic is included in my HOA dues, I thinkwe pay $60 a month for the rest which inlcudes Internet

Netflix subscription--You know, I don't even know exactly what this is other than some sort of movie rentals I think.

Unlimited calling home phone--got it--through Vonage, at $28/mo including taxes for unlimited calling, I dare anyone to find a better deal on a home phone.

Gym memberships--there's a health club in my community that my HOA dues support. When I lived in NJ we had one in our building, $15 a month.

Rhapsody or yahoo music subscription--nope, and couldn't be bothered. I get so many free CD's from my p/t job that I can't even listen to them all.

Internet service--cable Internet. We need it for my small business and DH's work-from-home and on call 24/7

Monthly Tivo Service fee--nope

Audible.com membership--no idea what this is.

Lawn service--yes. I'm asthmatic and am allergic to half the stuff out there. DS has terrible allergies, it would be unhealthy for either of us to even try. My guy charges $105 a month to mow and edge, and I've got a half acre. That's a good deal IMHO. I could never keep it looking as nice as he does. We do our our pruning and weeding to save costs--that would be an extra $50 a month.

Housekeeper-- You're reading the mainds words.

Pool Membership--through our HOA dues, there's a community pool. Additionally my next door neighbors have a pool. It's a vacation home for them, and I'm welcome to use it any time. I've used it a couple times when it was beastly hot in the summer, but I'm not going to run up thier power bill by heating it, so otherwise I'll take a bath in my own tub, thanks.

Example: I have a membership to a little community pool three blocks from my house. It's $280/summer and is open from June 1 to September 30. It's not much of a pool, but it's a great value for my family. Since I'm a teacher, I'm home all summer, and my girls get tired of just being here at the house. We can walk to the pool, and they can meet friends. We get a lot of use out of that $280 membership.

HOWEVER, if we were seriously short on cash, we'd have to realize that this membership IS a luxury. Just because something's a good value doesn't mean we should buy it.

When I was a kid we had a pool membership to a community pool as well with about the same "hours." My mom dug up the money every year to join. We never took family vacations, that was the vacation. We used to spend from 11:00 am when they opened until 7:00pm when they closed every day all day, all summer there. Well worth it. But I agree, it was a luxury, and we all knew it.

Anne