ROFR Thread July to Sept 2018 *PLEASE SEE FIRST POST FOR INSTRUCTIONS & FORMATTING TOOL*

[Bing Showei]

Still missing something. Doesn’t the seller set the price, not the agency.

Sure they do. As a seller, you are free to ask for whatever you want for your contract. Let's take AKV and how it now works on Fidelity. An AKV contracts could be had right now for between $105 and $115. If you told Fidelity (or any broker) that you wanted to list $10 above whatever their asking recommendation is (and they all have a recommendation - "this is I think we can move the contract for," "we've been seeing contracts taken for this amount," etc.) all that will do is help to sell the contracts of those who have elected to sell with that broker on their recommended pricing. Your $125 AKV contract will sit on Fidelity's site while the next seller comes in at what looks, next to your contract, to be a reasonable and attractive $115 contract. Ask what you will, but deviating from the brokers norm is unlikely to yield much success.

I still argue their commission is much less to half of other resale companies. If I am a seller I would list the price I wanted with the agency I thought would sell my property and give me a fair commission percentage.

I don't think anyone is arguing otherwise. Disney used to pass along owners who were delinquent on their loans and wanted out to Fidelity. Prices on Fidelity are low for a reason.

Right now, the same exact 160pt AKV contract on Fidelity is selling at DVCResale Market. At Fidelity, it's $110/pt. At DVCRM $116/pt.

At DVCRM, seller pays $1,578 on that sale but takes home $16,982.
At Fidelity, seller pays $1,056 on that sale but takes home $16,720.

If sold at asking*, seller may pay almost twice the commission, but they actually take home more with DVCRM.

I would gladly pay the $195 fee as the buyer instead of paying $20-25 more a point for similar contracts on other sites. For a 200 point contract, that is $4000-5000 in savings. Like I said, unless I am missing something.

In practice contracts sold on Fidelity and other sites don't reach the point of there being a $20-$25/pt differential. And as a buyer, it will often make sense to eat the "garbage fee" for the price difference that's there. My only point is that by redistributing their take-home by moving costs from the seller to the buyer, they're able to move more volume with lower prices that would be unachievable should the $195 fee need to come by way of 5% commission.

*ETA - @TexasChick123 makes a key point below, which is that DVCRM will regularly set asking prices high with the understanding that the price will be negotiated down. Given that reality, the delta in commission is closed even further and the defrayment of commission put on the buyer is even more shrewd.

 

[TexasChick123]

I am someone currently selling through Fidelity. FYI, their commission is 6%, not 5%. Here was my thinking: I can sell my contract for less because they are taking about 2.5% less commission than a lot of the others. I wanted to sell a contract fast, and the quickest way to do that is by lowering the price which I can do if I'm paying less commission. Long story short, I bought a BWV contract at a decent price a few months ago, but then another one came along that we thought would be more our speed. We were too far along in the process with the first one and would've lost our deposit, so we bought it and are now selling it. Fidelity told me to list my contract, which didn't have points until 2019, at $118pp. That's what we did, and there were a couple of tire kickers who came in very low, but we ended up finding a buyer at a price that was reasonable considering all the circumstances. It isn't an amazingly high price for us nor a crazy low price for them. It is completely a fair price for what I have seen going on right now. BWV isn't selling in the $120's if stripped. I spoke with multiple brokers, and the average price they had suggested I list at was $120pp, but they told me to "expect to negotiate". DVCRM was very high for suggested listing at $126pp, but they have an almost identical contract to mine that has been sitting for a LONG time. Also, as a recent buyer through DVCRM with my BLT add-on, their listing prices are somewhat silly. The one I bought was listed for $147pp, and we settled on $135pp with only a couple of back and forths. Fidelity's commission hugely affected what was my bottom line price for selling my BWV contract. We transferred out the 2018 points, so we didn't lose any money on the deal and actually made a small profit, but my point is that the high commission is a deterrent to some of us as sellers. They didn't recommend that I list crazy low at $118pp for a stripped BWV contract. Also, it took almost a week to find a buyer. That makes me think that anything higher would have taken longer. After calculating in the difference that I could've gotten with a slightly higher sales prices but subtracting the extra commission, the amount is almost always net zero.

 

[TexasChick123]

Here's the info on the contract:

TexasChick123 (seller)---$113-$23410-200-BWV-Aug-0/17, 0/18, 200/19, 200/20- sent 7/11

 

[DVC Fanatic]

Sure they do. As a seller, you are free to ask for whatever you want for your contract. Let's take AKV and how it now works on Fidelity. An AKV contracts could be had right now for between $105 and $115. If you told Fidelity (or any broker) that you wanted to list $10 above whatever their asking recommendation is (and they all have a recommendation - "this is I think we can move the contract for," "we've been seeing contracts taken for this amount," etc.) all that will do is help to sell the contracts of those who have elected to sell with that broker on their recommended pricing. Your $125 AKV contract will sit on Fidelity's site while the next seller comes in at what looks, next to your contract, to be a reasonable and attractive $115 contract. Ask what you will, but deviating from the brokers norm is unlikely to yield much success.

I don't think anyone is arguing otherwise. Disney used to pass along owners who were delinquent on their loans and wanted out to Fidelity. Prices on Fidelity are low for a reason.

Right now, the same exact 160pt AKV contract on Fidelity is selling at DVCResale Market. At Fidelity, it's $110/pt. At DVCRM $116/pt.

At DVCRM, seller pays $1,578 on that sale but takes home $16,982.
At Fidelity, seller pays $1,056 on that sale but takes home $16,720.

If sold at asking*, seller may pay almost twice the commission, but they actually take home more with DVCRM.

In practice contracts sold on Fidelity and other sites don't reach the point of there being a $20-$25/pt differential. And as a buyer, it will often make sense to eat the "garbage fee" for the price difference that's there. My only point is that by redistributing their take-home by moving costs from the seller to the buyer, they're able to move more volume with lower prices that would be unachievable should the $195 fee need to come by way of 5% commission.

*ETA - @TexasChick123 makes a key point below, which is that DVCRM will regularly set asking prices high with the understanding that the price will be negotiated down. Given that reality, the delta in commission is closed even further and the defrayment of commission put on the buyer is even more shrewd.

We are still talking past one another I think. Lets take the contract I am about to close on as an example. We are buying 200 points at PVB for $145 a point. DVCRM has similar listings ranging from $153 (Partially stripped) to loaded at $166. Closest thing they have sale pending is a 175 point (partially stripped) at $154. Lets say I could have gotten a similar contract with them as the buyer for around $150 with a lot of negotiating and how many listings they have currently. I would have spent $1,000 more. Their closing costs are estimated $75 more than fidelity, making that Fidelity admin fee only $120. So i would have spent around $820 more as the buyer.

Now with this scenario, a seller with Fidelity would pay $1,740 commission on $29,000 with a net of 27,260. With DVCRM a seller would pay $2,550 commission (based on the discounted 8.5% compared to their normal 10%) on $30,000 with a net of $27,450. So a little better for the seller, but not as good for the buyer. Also, with their non-discounted commission, it would be worse for the seller. They would have to get a higher sale price to close the distance, making it even worse for the buyer.

I think some of this discussion is resort dependent. I think through all of this discussion, if DVRCM can get close to their asking prices, it would be better to sell from them. If I am a buyer and I can find the right property with Fidelity, it would be better to buy from them, even with the $195 fee.

 

[pangyal]

Updated!

 

[ScubaCat]

Updated!

 

[motherof5]

gkrykewy---$111-$14300-120-AKV-Aug-0/17, 92/18, 120/19, 120/20- sent 7/4, passed 7/18

congratulations and welcome

 

[motherof5]

I am someone currently selling through Fidelity. FYI, their commission is 6%, not 5%. Here was my thinking: I can sell my contract for less because they are taking about 2.5% less commission than a lot of the others. I wanted to sell a contract fast, and the quickest way to do that is by lowering the price which I can do if I'm paying less commission. Long story short, I bought a BWV contract at a decent price a few months ago, but then another one came along that we thought would be more our speed. We were too far along in the process with the first one and would've lost our deposit, so we bought it and are now selling it. Fidelity told me to list my contract, which didn't have points until 2019, at $118pp. That's what we did, and there were a couple of tire kickers who came in very low, but we ended up finding a buyer at a price that was reasonable considering all the circumstances. It isn't an amazingly high price for us nor a crazy low price for them. It is completely a fair price for what I have seen going on right now. BWV isn't selling in the $120's if stripped. I spoke with multiple brokers, and the average price they had suggested I list at was $120pp, but they told me to "expect to negotiate". DVCRM was very high for suggested listing at $126pp, but they have an almost identical contract to mine that has been sitting for a LONG time. Also, as a recent buyer through DVCRM with my BLT add-on, their listing prices are somewhat silly. The one I bought was listed for $147pp, and we settled on $135pp with only a couple of back and forths. Fidelity's commission hugely affected what was my bottom line price for selling my BWV contract. We transferred out the 2018 points, so we didn't lose any money on the deal and actually made a small profit, but my point is that the high commission is a deterrent to some of us as sellers. They didn't recommend that I list crazy low at $118pp for a stripped BWV contract. Also, it took almost a week to find a buyer. That makes me think that anything higher would have taken longer. After calculating in the difference that I could've gotten with a slightly higher sales prices but subtracting the extra commission, the amount is almost always net zero.

That makes sense. Do you know what it means when it says bk near points for a year. Fidelity currently has a listing AK sale pending and I just notices in 2018 it says 167,7 bk just trying to educate myself. Thanks

 

[hlhlaw07]

That makes sense. Do you know what it means when it says bk near points for a year. Fidelity currently has a listing AK sale pending and I just notices in 2018 it says 167,7 bk just trying to educate myself. Thanks

I’m pretty sure that means “banked.” So in your example, 167 points coming for 2018, 7 of which are banked.

 

[motherof5]

I’m pretty sure that means “banked.” So in your example, 167 points coming for 2018, 7 of which are banked.

got it. Thanks

 

[Mumof4mice]

Here's the info on the contract:

TexasChick123 (seller)---$113-$23410-200-BWV-Aug-0/17, 0/18, 200/19, 200/20- sent 7/11

Happy to hear it worked out so well for you, Texaschick!

Did you consider waiting until Aug 1 so you can strip the 2019 points too?

Asking because I'm still hoping to get my hands on a VGC contract (at Fidelity prices. Not $225!). Stripped contracts don't seem to be "punished" anywhere near what I think they should be. It has me thinking that selling 1-2 contracts fully stripped could theoretically fund a VGC purchase without losing money on the sale. But it can't be as simple as it looks...?

 

[TexasChick123]

Happy to hear it worked out so well for you, Texaschick!

Did you consider waiting until Aug 1 so you can strip the 2019 points too?

Asking because I'm still hoping to get my hands on a VGC contract (at Fidelity prices. Not $225!). Stripped contracts don't seem to be "punished" anywhere near what I think they should be. It has me thinking that selling 1-2 contracts fully stripped could theoretically fund a VGC purchase without losing money on the sale. But it can't be as simple as it looks...?

The super stripped BWV contracts sit for a while, unlike VGC. I knew someone would want to buy mine and have it close before Sept 1st so they could make F&W reservations for 2019. It’s a huge selling point that all 2019 points were there. We wanted to sell fast, and stripping it until 2020 wouldn’t have achieved that, I think.

 

[TexasChick123]

In the BWV vein, I am very surprised to see that two different BWV contracts at $115pp are still listed for sale on https://dvcsales.com/. I worked with Mark and Lori, and while my contract was taken via ROFR, they were amazing to work with. Both contracts have all 2018 points, and one even has 15 extra BWV points. I am seeing contracts on other sites being snapped up in the high $110's-$120's almost instantly with points like that. Thoughts from anyone?

 

[Matty B13]

In the BWV vein, I am very surprised to see that two different BWV contracts at $115pp are still listed for sale on https://dvcsales.com/. I worked with Mark and Lori, and while my contract was taken via ROFR, they were amazing to work with. Both contracts have all 2018 points, and one even has 15 extra BWV points. I am seeing contracts on other sites being snapped up in the high $110's-$120's almost instantly with points like that. Thoughts from anyone?

I'm not sure if it is my web browser or their website, but you can't sort through the contracts to check for what you want.

But those are nice contracts.

 

[beourguest2009]

In the BWV vein, I am very surprised to see that two different BWV contracts at $115pp are still listed for sale on https://dvcsales.com/. I worked with Mark and Lori, and while my contract was taken via ROFR, they were amazing to work with. Both contracts have all 2018 points, and one even has 15 extra BWV points. I am seeing contracts on other sites being snapped up in the high $110's-$120's almost instantly with points like that. Thoughts from anyone?

I think they are not as well known as others as they have only been in business a few years. We have used them twice and have had a great experience both times! I have had some conversations with Lori about getting their name out there more via e-mails or more facebook postings. She told me they were both old and weren't as savvy as some others.

I'm not sure if it is my web browser or their website, but you can't sort through the contracts to check for what you want.

But those are nice contracts.

Their website on the phone leaves lots to be desired. It is much easier to use a computer when looking at their site.

 

[CatNipRules]

Okay so I have 2018 points that I would need to bank. I see that I only have until the end of September to do,so. We aren’t going to close until around the 17th of September. Does this mean that I will lose these points?

 

[vrajewski10513]

Okay so I have 2018 points that I would need to bank. I see that I only have until the end of September to do,so. We aren’t going to close until around the 17th of September. Does this mean that I will lose these points?

i don’t know the answer, but is there a way to request the current owner bank the points so they’re not lost?

 

[Matty B13]

Okay so I have 2018 points that I would need to bank. I see that I only have until the end of September to do,so. We aren’t going to close until around the 17th of September. Does this mean that I will lose these points?

I would have had the current owner back the 2018 UY points in the contract, you might still be able to have them do this. Contact your broker and see what they say.

 

[Phatscott25]

phatscott25---$150-$16165-100-PVB-Jun-0/17, 110/18, 100/19, 100/20- sent 6/20, passed 7/23

Took Disney a while for this one, although my broker had to request an update this morning and they immediately replied with the waiver. So they think perhaps Disney overlooked it. At any rate, yay! Now off to estoppel...

 

[JoeD07]

In the BWV vein, I am very surprised to see that two different BWV contracts at $115pp are still listed for sale on https://dvcsales.com/. I worked with Mark and Lori, and while my contract was taken via ROFR, they were amazing to work with. Both contracts have all 2018 points, and one even has 15 extra BWV points. I am seeing contracts on other sites being snapped up in the high $110's-$120's almost instantly with points like that. Thoughts from anyone?

This is the site that I used to purchase (hopefully) my BLT contract. I have also had a very good experience so far. mark and Lori have been very responsive and helpful through the process thus far.