Resale Restriction Workaround

[DougEMG]

I recall Wyndham creating that door in 2006 by inventing a new program layer of Developer-sales-perks ("TravelShare") on top of Worldmark. It was a major game-changer that included a new VIP program but only to direct purchases going forward or 'upgrades' requiring both "qualified" old points + a new developer purchase. I wouldn't be surprised if DVD did similarly.

Editing to expand the thought a bit ...

Imagine that next month (or as early as 1/19??) that DVD starts selling Riviera as "DVC + Extra Magic!" The DVC portion is similar to what we already know except for the new "home resort only" restriction. The "Extra Magic!" portion is a new layer of perks offered only to new Developer sales.

The Extra Magic! layer carries a small annual dues (to cover the administrative efforts) and does not transfer on resale. It offers:

a) Free exchanges to Concierge Collection, Disney Collection and World Collection (RCI). (Waives the $95 transaction fee. Oh, why keep that fee so low? For prior owners, the $95 fee becomes $119 overnight followed by rate changes every 8 months. But new owners, rest easy: this is included in your Extra Magic! package.)
b) Access to using your DVC points across the entire DVC portfolio. (Something all present owners have now ... but a feature being restricted in the near future.)
c) VIP tiers! The offers here included: special phone lines for Member Services; special check-in lines at each resort; special Member Cruises/Travel events based on levels; earlier booking windows to Member Cruises based on levels; special party events based on levels; a special Magic Band; etc.
d) Might all our present "Member Magic" become "Extra Magic!"? Hmmm ... not all at once, but likely over a short window of 2-5 years?

Current owners do NOT receive "Extra Magic!" for free. If they have "qualified" DVC points (either direct or grandfathered as direct before the 1/19 changes) then they may "upgrade" all their points to "Extra Magic!" by purchasing an additional 100 points at Riviera.

----

So ... let's see how close this comes ...

Nothing there that would tempt me. Now if they gave out extra FPs, then temptation would set in. But if it was only a perk and not written into the contract, I wouldn't trust them to not change the perks at some point.

 

[4luv2cdisney]

Nothing there that would tempt me. Now if they gave out extra FPs, then temptation would set in. But if it was only a perk and not written into the contract, I wouldn't trust them to not change the perks at some point.

Same.

I really think all it would take for me to not give a crap about the resale value of a new resort I was genuinely interested in (not Riviera for me....I'd lean more toward the rehab) or to suck it up and pay $225 / pt for BLT would be:

Short term: prority access or special event for SWGE (or whatever the hot new thing is that's going to suck all the time out of my trip trying to see / ride)

Long term: The guarantee of a handful of unrestricted fastpasses for every trip.

 

[Cyberc1978]

It just hit me another possible work around even though I can’t actually confirm it.

I guess You would need a direct contract but I’m actually not 100% certain about it.

As long as you have a membership then you could just take a points transfer from whatever resort. True you would need to call in to use the points but I don’t see how they would be able to track if you are eligible to book anything else than the L14.

Thoughts?

 

[bwvBound]

It just hit me another possible work around even though I can’t actually confirm it.

I guess You would need a direct contract but I’m actually not 100% certain about it.

As long as you have a membership then you could just take a points transfer from whatever resort. True you would need to call in to use the points but I don’t see how they would be able to track if you are eligible to book anything else than the L14.

Thoughts?

If I recall correctly, this is already being played out regarding the original 2011 (?) restriction regarding eligibility for booking Disney Collection and Concierge Collection. Am I correct thinking that the transfer retains the incoming points original privileges?? (I'm pretty certain Disney's IT is already maintaining 'rights tied to a contract' rather than 'to an owner.')

Of course, this adds another layer of "trust" between transfer participants. I think we are down to "the points are qualified, take my word for it!"

 

[ScubaCat]

I would think that the restrictions stay with transferred points, but who knows? That is a legit potential loophole if not tracked properly (and assuming you trust the qualified owner you're transferring to)

That's wicked smaht!

 

[Matty B13]

If I recall correctly, this is already being played out regarding the original 2011 (?) restriction regarding eligibility for booking Disney Collection and Concierge Collection. Am I correct thinking that the transfer retains the incoming points original privileges?? (I'm pretty certain Disney's IT is already maintaining 'rights tied to a contract' rather than 'to an owner.')

Of course, this adds another layer of "trust" between transfer participants. I think we are down to "the points are qualified, take my word for it!"

If you have the name of the contract owners, you could do a search for the deed on the Orange County Website.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

It just hit me another possible work around even though I can’t actually confirm it.

I guess You would need a direct contract but I’m actually not 100% certain about it.

As long as you have a membership then you could just take a points transfer from whatever resort. True you would need to call in to use the points but I don’t see how they would be able to track if you are eligible to book anything else than the L14.

Thoughts?

Or....rent a reservation.

Nothing has been said about if current members would be able to get point transfers from Riviera members. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that won't be a cross option but maybe. Either way, people seem to talk as if there's no way to get into Riviera if you don't own there or finagle something. It isn't going to be an exclusive Club - just another resort at Disney.

 

[4luv2cdisney]

I would think that the restrictions stay with transferred points, but who knows? That is a legit potential loophole if not tracked properly (and assuming you trust the qualified owner you're transferring to)

That's wicked smaht!

Maybe a good reason to have 2 memberships...? You can just transfer your points to yourself.

(If a legit loophole.)

 

[DougEMG]

It looks like Disney plans to make a number of changes to how DVC2 will work, I wonder if they place any restrictions around DVC2 members renting.

 

[bwvBound]

If you have the name of the contract owners, you could do a search for the deed on the Orange County Website.

If the property is from Florida and if you remained very savvy as to when each level of restriction went into effect ??

 

[Matty B13]

If the property is from Florida and if you remained very savvy as to when each level of restriction went into effect ??

Yep, it would take some leg work on the receivers part, but it could be done........ or you could just post the owners deed date here on Disboards, and I'm sure someone within a few minutes would be able to tell the person if the points were restricted.

 

[Dean]

It looks like Disney plans to make a number of changes to how DVC2 will work, I wonder if they place any restrictions around DVC2 members renting.

It's be difficult to restrict it completely if they rent it themselves.

 

[Cyberc1978]

I would think that the restrictions stay with transferred points, but who knows? That is a legit potential loophole if not tracked properly (and assuming you trust the qualified owner you're transferring to)

That's wicked smaht!

When you are transferring points there already need to be some level of trust, but I agree owner could claim that his points qualified even though if they didn't

 

[Cyberc1978]

It's be difficult to restrict it completely if they rent it themselves.

I guess you are right, but knowing Disney they would most likely come up with terms under which you need to qualify for the right to rent like: ....You have to be a business and you business name have to have "Disney" in it to qualify

 

[motherof5]

I would think that the restrictions stay with transferred points, but who knows? That is a legit potential loophole if not tracked properly (and assuming you trust the qualified owner you're transferring to)

That's wicked smaht!

I thought the same thing. Time will tell if this works

 

[Hoosier John]

I guess I never looked into the aftermarket resale market that close, but I didn't think it was really so bad to buy direct.
If someone bought one of these properties on the aftermarket resale market around the same time period, I would be interested how much you paid per point.

Here's what I paid DVC direct:

Purch.    DVC         $/pt       Built
1999      BWV          49        1996
2008      AKL          86        2007
2011      BLT          96        2009

Thanks!

 

[Ben E N]

I guess I never looked into the aftermarket resale market that close, but I didn't think it was really so bad to buy direct.
If someone bought one of these properties on the aftermarket resale market around the same time period, I would be interested how much you paid per point.

Here's what I paid DVC direct:

Purchase Yr DVC Price/pt Built
1999 BWV 49 1996
2008 AKL 86 2007
2011 BLT 96 2009

Thanks!

You bought those right around opening time, so there wasn't really a resale market for them.

For a more accurate comparison, look at a new resort today, like Poly for $234, and compare it to resale prices of $155-170

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

I guess I never looked into the aftermarket resale market that close, but I didn't think it was really so bad to buy direct.
If someone bought one of these properties on the aftermarket resale market around the same time period, I would be interested how much you paid per point.

Here's what I paid DVC direct:

Purch. DVC $/pt Built
1999 BWV 49 1996
2008 AKL 86 2007
2011 BLT 96 2009

Thanks!

Resales and direct were much closer back at that time. As mentioned you were buying while those resorts were still in direct sales and there tend to be very few resales at that time. That still tends to hold true for new resorts - it will be very comparable in prices between direct and resale. But as an example for the resorts you own BWV resale could be around the $115/pt mark and direct is $190. AKV is around $103-$110 and direct is $176/pt. BLT is around $140-$145/pt resale and direct is now $225/pt

 

[Hoosier John]

You bought those right around opening time, so there wasn't really a resale market for them.

For a more accurate comparison, look at a new resort today, like Poly for $234, and compare it to resale prices of $155-170

Thanks Ben E N! To understand, PVB (that people prolly paid less than $180, new), is now being resold by Disney for around $234, and resold aftermarket for about $160ish, right?

 

[Hoosier John]

Resales and direct were much closer back at that time. As mentioned you were buying while those resorts were still in direct sales and there tend to be very few resales at that time. That still tends to hold true for new resorts - it will be very comparable in prices between direct and resale. But as an example for the resorts you own BWV resale could be around the $115/pt mark and direct is $190. AKV is around $103-$110 and direct is $176/pt. BLT is around $140-$145/pt resale and direct is now $225/pt

Thank you KAT4DISNEY! Maybe I just got lucky on our direct purchases (and I'm not even sure they were brand new). I seem to remember not being able to use some of them for a year or so.

But if your numbers are somewhat close (and I haven't learned how to get them, yet), doesn't this make the case for just buying new to start with, gaining full benefits (with the knowledge that resale on DVC2 properties might be hurt, if one were to ever sell)?

Built   Purch.    DVC         $/pt     2019Dis    2019Resale
1996    1999      BWV          49        190        115
2007    2008      AKL          86        176        103-110
2009    2011      BLT          96        225        140-145