Possible property tax refunds

[CarolynFH]

This could be good news for DVC owners, although bad news for Orange County (FL) school districts and other government agencies that depend on property tax revenue to operate.

https://dvcnews.com/dvc-program-men...sney-wins-latest-round-in-property-tax-battle

 

[gottalovepluto]

At least the schools already set aside the $80 mil under contingency Disney wins it all back so they’re ready.

 

[AstroBlasters]

I hate to see schools take more of a hit….

 

[gottalovepluto]

I hate to see schools take more of a hit….

What “hit”? If Disney wins the money was never rightfully the district’s anyway.

 

[Tatebeck]

Yeah it sounds like the appraisers/assessors have been trying to overinflate the taxes. Disney makes the state and surrounding areas a ton of money I'm sure. No need to get greedy and try to make them pay more than they are supposed to. Especially if it isn't even all taxes that are paid by Disney but are in part passed onto DVC owners as well. I'm sure we would all like the dues to stay lower.

 

[Tatebeck]

Another question with resale contracts, what happens if the dues aren't just reduced going forward but a refund is ordered to owners? Do they keep all the info of past owners and the refund will go to them, even if they have sold their contracts now? Or would it go to the new owner since they have the contract now?

 

[Kingkonig]

Another question with resale contracts, what happens if the dues aren't just reduced going forward but a refund is ordered to owners? Do they keep all the info of past owners and the refund will go to them, even if they have sold their contracts now? Or would it go to the new owner since they have the contract now?

I would imagine that while Disney *may* have that information (or at least access to it/the ability to determine former owners) that this would not be something they would choose to make a payment to former owners. If I’m Disney I’m putting that excess cash in the resort reserves or go ahead with some soft goods refurbishment ahead of schedule. If it’s required to be refunded to owners directly, it would probably make the most sense to use it to offset dues for current years.

 

[CastAStone]

Another question with resale contracts, what happens if the dues aren't just reduced going forward but a refund is ordered to owners? Do they keep all the info of past owners and the refund will go to them, even if they have sold their contracts now? Or would it go to the new owner since they have the contract now?

You sell your property and you sell the right to refunds like these. They’ll go to the new owner.

 

[CraigInPA]

Another question with resale contracts, what happens if the dues aren't just reduced going forward but a refund is ordered to owners? Do they keep all the info of past owners and the refund will go to them, even if they have sold their contracts now? Or would it go to the new owner since they have the contract now?

DVC has traditionally issued lower property tax refunds as a credit against the following year dues. So, owners who sell before the following year don't see any benefit.

 

[Tatebeck]

You sell your property and you sell the right to refunds like these. They’ll go to the new owner.

DVC has traditionally issued lower property tax refunds as a credit against the following year dues. So, owners who sell before the following year don't see any benefit.

Guess I bought all my contracts at the right time! lol

 

[Willow Ufgood]

If I’m Disney I’m putting that excess cash in the resort reserves or go ahead with some soft goods refurbishment ahead of schedule. If it’s required to be refunded to owners directly, it would probably make the most sense to use it to offset dues for current years.

I don't think that Disney can legally withhold a tax refund from the owners for using it toward other purposes. When estimated taxes for the year exceed the actual taxes, DVC has always used that excess as a credit toward the next year's maintenance fees. I would expect any tax refund to be handled in a similar manner.

FWIW, this lawsuit only applied to BC. There's other litigation pending for other resorts. And of course, the tax collector will also appeal this ruling.

 

[DisTravels]

This could be good news for DVC owners, although bad news for Orange County (FL) school districts and other government agencies that depend on property tax revenue to operate.

https://dvcnews.com/dvc-program-men...sney-wins-latest-round-in-property-tax-battle

Were the property valuations decreased in 2017 is that why this is only focused on 2015 & 2016? Or can you just contest the year of the increase and not the subsequent years? Or something else..

 

[BayTower2010]

Were the property valuations decreased in 2017 is that why this is only focused on 2015 & 2016? Or can you just contest the year of the increase and not the subsequent years? Or something else..

No, this was/is an ongoing problem. So all the years from 2017 thru 2023 are still being litigated. Please be aware that Universal, Seaworld, and other Corporations have all pending litigation to recoup real estate taxes. The 80 million that is estimated is JUST for Disney and does not count other Corps. This is a great big mess that will effect Orange County/schools for years to come. So who gets hurt the most--The Children and the poor Residents who most certainly see their tax bills increase.

 

[DisTravels]

No, this was/is an ongoing problem. So all the years from 2017 thru 2023 are still being litigated. Please be aware that Universal, Seaworld, and other Corporations have all pending litigation to recoup real estate taxes. The 80 million that is estimated is JUST for Disney and does not count other Corps.

Is the litigation just related to the parks and related lodging (Disney, Universal, Seaworld, Fun Spot America, Gatorland, etc) or also other timeshare companies (Marriott Vacation Club, Club Wyndham, Hilton Grand Vacations, etc)?

 

[DisTravels]

This is a great big mess that will effect Orange County/schools for years to come. So who gets hurt the most--The Children and the poor Residents who most certainly see their tax bills increase.

If property taxes doubled and school tax revenue approximately doubled - then schools have excess funds.

If the school kept the excess tax revenue set aside (like they did with the $80mm referenced in the article - hopefully in a high-yielding account), then how would Orange County/schools be hurt? Is the school district picking up the legal fees?

 

[BayTower2010]

If property taxes doubled and school tax revenue approximately doubled - then schools have excess funds.

If the school kept the excess tax revenue set aside (like they did with the $80mm referenced in the article - hopefully in a high-yielding account), then how would Orange County/schools be hurt? Is the school district picking up the legal fees?

The truth is every government agency (and I include the board of education) spends all the money they get. There is not some secret funds set aside, although I have read that the BOE in Orange County did indeed start to put some funds aside anticipating losing this case. The question above regarding about the said litigation, the exact case is just related to Disney. However, as I have said just about every major Corp has similar litigation pending (universal, Marriot, Wyndham, etc). This case will be used as a precedent on all these pending cases. The total will end up being in the hundreds of millions in rebates due the these Corps. I anticipate that the county will reach agreements with the Corps for structured rebates over a period of years to keep from complete economic collapse.

 

[Simba's Mom]

Great! I didn't know anything about this. Two of our three resorts are BCV and OKW, so I'd like a little unexpected money. However, our third resort, Hilton Head, will no doubt not be affected by this.

 

[Genie+]

A few years back I looked at the dues breakdown of the 2 resorts we own, BW and VGF.

BW paid $1.5858 ad valorem taxes as part of $8.53 dues, and VGF paid $1.8353 as part of $7.33 dues. BW’s were ~19% of the dues and VGF’s were ~25% of dues, which didn’t seem like a big difference until I considered the average point cost per night, which VGF uses about 50% more points.

Altogether that made VGF’s ad valorem taxes almost twice the cost/nt for a than BW on average when comparing same room size.

Guess that’s why they were contested? I can see VGF with a higher valuation and the rooms generally have a little more square footage and whatever else the valuation covers… maybe swanky materials, more amenities and their sf, etc? But roughly double the tax per night? That seemed excessive.

 

[Genie+]

A few years back I looked at the dues breakdown of the 2 resorts we own, BW and VGF.

BW paid $1.5858 ad valorem taxes as part of $8.53 dues, and VGF paid $1.8353 as part of $7.33 dues. BW’s were ~19% of the dues and VGF’s were ~25% of dues, which didn’t seem like a big difference until I considered the average point cost per night, which VGF uses about 50% more points.

Altogether that made VGF’s ad valorem taxes almost twice the cost/nt for a than BW on average when comparing same room size.

Guess that’s why they were contested? I can see VGF with a higher valuation and the rooms generally have a little more square footage and whatever else the valuation covers… maybe swanky materials, more amenities and their sf, etc? But roughly double the tax per night? That seemed excessive.


View attachment 899747
View attachment 899748

This also makes a good example as to how lower point/nt average in a resort increases the dues per point.

After deducting 1.5858 out of BW’s $8.53, the rest is covered with roughly $7pp dues, while VGF’s was just $5.50pp.

 

[CarolynFH]

Some articles that might help in understanding relevant history:

https://dvcnews.com/dvc-program-men...s-county-over-central-florida-tax-assessments

https://dvcnews.com/dvc-program-men...-property-tax-battle-against-orange-county-fl

https://dvcnews.com/dvc-program-men...-property-tax-dispute-dvc-impact-questionable