OKW Annual Dues Skyrocket?

[carlbarry]

Maybe I missed this discussion:
Why have the annual dues at OKW become the highest of any WDW resort?
They are almost double of when I bought in in 2009.

 

[mamaofsix]

I think a lot of it is due to increased labor costs to run a resort that is so spread out (internal transportation, grounds work, etc). Labor costs and fuel costs are on the rise and fees have to keep pace.

 

[Brett Wyman]

I think a lot of it is due to increased labor costs to run a resort that is so spread out (internal transportation, grounds work, etc). Labor costs and fuel costs are on the rise and fees have to keep pace.

Really? Why do the cheapest price per point resorts all have the highest dues? It isn't because their maintenance is more than other resorts.

 

[Nabas]

The highest average Maintenance Fee increases for the last 10 years are:

HHI: 5.98%
VGC: 5.81%
OKW: 5.77%
VB: 5.72%
BLT: 5.15%
SSR: 5.05%

 

[RoseGold]

Really? Why do the cheapest price per point resorts all have the highest dues? It isn't because their maintenance is more than other resorts.

Because they are dividing the cost among fewer points. OKW room is 8 points, Poly is 22. That's a big difference. It's surprising OKW isn't higher, really.

 

[carlbarry]

Because they are dividing the cost among fewer points. OKW room is 8 points, Poly is 22. That's a big difference. It's surprising OKW isn't higher, really.

OKW was the first one, so Disney didn't know any better.

 

[mom2missmous]

BCV went way up too!

 

[davidhr]

Really? Why do the cheapest price per point resorts all have the highest dues? It isn't because their maintenance is more than other resorts.

Those resorts are cheaper per point because the dues are higher, so the buyers don't want to pay high prices if they have to pay high annual fees. The market kind of balances itself.

 

[carlbarry]

Those resorts are cheaper per point because the dues are higher, so the buyers don't want to pay high prices if they have to pay high annual fees. The market kind of balances itself.

Not exactly. Prices are higher on the monorail resorts because they're monorail resorts. Prices are lower at OKW and SSR because they're not as "deluxe" as VGF, Poly, or Riviera.

 

[tjkraz]

Not exactly. Prices are higher on the monorail resorts because they're monorail resorts. Prices are lower at OKW and SSR because they're not as "deluxe" as VGF, Poly, or Riviera.

Both things are true to a degree. But what all does Polynesian have that OKW doesn't? Dues don't pay for restaurants or boat rentals. Both have lobbies and one feature pool. Both have fire pits, volleyball courts and other miscellaneous recreation. Transportation varies. Property taxes are probably greater at Poly vs OKW.

(EDIT: In the above comments, I was speaking to operating costs of the resorts, not per-point sale prices.)

But the single biggest difference is the point chart. As other posters have said, you're spreading the costs over fewer points at OKW.

In lowest season (mid-week, September), OKW is only 9 points per night for a studio vs 14-19 at Poly. Plug in the respective dues cost and you get $84.24 per night at OKW vs $111.30 to $151.05 for Poly. On a per-point basis, OKW dues may be higher. But the cost of the stay is noticeably lower because it requires fewer points per night.

 

[davidhr]

I also wonder why transportation is so expensive at OKW. This is 2022, but it's by far the highest

https://dvcnews.com/other-resources/site-content/5214-2022-annual-dues-budgets-for-all-resorts

And considering OKW has almost twice as much total points as PVB, the transportation cost is massive. It was 35% higher than Saratoga, which has similar transportation.

 

[Sandisw]

Really? Why do the cheapest price per point resorts all have the highest dues? It isn't because their maintenance is more than other resorts.

Think about it..if a room is 10 points and it’s $45 to clean, you are payng $5/pt. If a room is 20 points, now it’s only $2,50/pt.

 

[tjkraz]

I also wonder why transportation is so expensive at OKW. This is 2022, but it's by far the highest

https://dvcnews.com/other-resources/site-content/5214-2022-annual-dues-budgets-for-all-resorts

And considering OKW has almost twice as much total points as PVB, the transportation cost is massive. It was 35% higher than Saratoga, which has similar transportation.

Again, you're mixing per-point costs and total budget for two resorts that are priced differently.

In terms of real dollars, the 2022 transportation budget for OKW was $9.23 million. For SSR it was $12.46 million. SSR is lower on a PER POINT basis simply because SSR has more points over which to spread the costs. But also it costs more points to book the average night stay at SSR compared to OKW.

 

[davidhr]

Again, you're mixing per-point costs and total budget for two resorts that are priced differently.

In terms of real dollars, the 2022 transportation budget for OKW was $9.23 million. For SSR it was $12.46 million. SSR is lower on a PER POINT basis simply because SSR has more points over which to spread the costs. But also it costs more points to book the average night stay at SSR compared to OKW.

I know, that's why I didn't use the totals. Saratoga is a larger resort, and by total it'll look more expensive.

SSR and OKW are pretty close in points per night to be honest, it's just that Saratoga has a larger inventory. Some seasons are more expensive at Saratoga, some are more expensive at OKW. the Villas are more expensive at Saratoga, but at the end of the day those are a small percentage.

I bet that if we totalize the rooms to remove the seasonal differences, they would be very close at points per room. And that would mean that under normal conditions, the transportation cost per point should have been closer.

 

[carlbarry]

The big mystery to me is the maintenance fee at AKL, as well as the relatively low point cost. I would think the cost of maintaining the animals, and to a lesser extent the extra Cast Members who are at the savannas, would be a huge expense.

 

[Nursemanit]

Buying SSR and then staying at OKW is the real bargain for budget DVC at WDW.

 

[mamaofsix]

Really? Why do the cheapest price per point resorts all have the highest dues? It isn't because their maintenance is more than other resorts.

They DO have more maintenance. The older resorts are more spread out (more land to maintain) and have internal bussing (higher transportation costs).

 

[drusba]

Noted above is that one of the main reasons total per point costs differ is the difference in points applicable per room. Moreover, the biggest overall costs associated with many things in the budget are labor costs, and 2023 will be the start of significant union wage increases. The prior multi-year union contracts expired in Oct 2022 and a new one was still being negotiated at the time the budgets were released (under agreement that anything later agreed to would revert back to Oct 2022), but even by the time the budgets were released, large increases could be estimated because it was clear that the labor costs were going to rise significantly. They actually knew the likely wage increases by the time the budget was issued, with the unions having demanded a lot, including because of the current inflation factor, while the main remaining issues involved benefits such as paid vacation time.

Another major difference between resorts is the existence of Disney hotel rooms. OKW, SSR and Riviera do not have a Disney hotel operation as part of the resort, while all the others are sharing costs for many things with the hotel side of the resort, particularly a lot of the labor costs. Riviera actually had the lowest percentage increase of all resorts for 2023 but that appears to be a factor resulting from DVC's having overestimated needed dues in prior years of its existence.

One can perceive the differences resulting from OKW's higher per point cost, the increase in labor costs, and the effect of its not sharing costs with a Disney hotel, by comparing the OKW 2023 operation budget to BLT's. OKW'a total operating budget is about $49M at about $6.49 a point compared to BLT's $26 million at about $4.59 per point -- lower per point because of more points per room and lower overall due to fewer rooms, less overall territory, and sharing of costs with a Disney hotel; key examples: (a) OKW's administration and front desk costs total $6M at $,79 per point compared to $3.5M at BLT at $.62 a point (bulk of front desk operations at BLT are at the Contemporary); (b) housekeeping at OKW is $15.3M at $1.99 a point compared to BLT's $9.4M at $.62 per point (OKW has far more rooms and most of the housekeeping costs are labor) ; (c) maintenance at OKW is $5.7M at $1.99 a point compared to BLT's $3.4M at $.60 a point (OKW has a lot more "outside" to maintain with higher labor costs and BLT is sharing such costs with Contemporary); (c) transportation for OKW is $9.8M at $1.27 per point compared to BLT's $2.1M at $.37 per point (high labor costs and BLT shares such costs with Contemporary; moreover; all OKW's buses are for OKW only while Contemporary and BLT share bus costs with WL resorts and monorail costs with Poly and GF).

 

[carlbarry]

One can perceive the differences resulting from OKW's higher per point cost, the increase in labor costs, and the effect of its not sharing costs with a Disney hotel, by comparing the OKW 2023 operation budget to BLT's. OKW'a total operating budget is about $49M at about $6.49 a point compared to BLT's $26 million at about $4.59 per point -- lower per point because of more points per room and lower overall due to fewer rooms, less overall territory, and sharing of costs with a Disney hotel; key examples: (a) OKW's administration and front desk costs total $6M at $,79 per point compared to $3.5M at BLT at $.62 a point (bulk of front desk operations at BLT are at the Contemporary); (b) housekeeping at OKW is $15.3M at $1.99 a point compared to BLT's $9.4M at $.62 per point (OKW has far more rooms and most of the housekeeping costs are labor) ; (c) maintenance at OKW is $5.7M at $1.99 a point compared to BLT's $3.4M at $.60 a point (OKW has a lot more "outside" to maintain with higher labor costs and BLT is sharing such costs with Contemporary); (c) transportation for OKW is $9.8M at $1.27 per point compared to BLT's $2.1M at $.37 per point (high labor costs and BLT shares such costs with Contemporary; moreover; all OKW's buses are for OKW only while Contemporary and BLT share bus costs with WL resorts and monorail costs with Poly and GF).

Thank you for that in-depth analysis. It reinforces my feelings that when the deeds run out at OKW, it will be torn down and one huge building constructed. I was struck my recent stay by the logistics of housekeeping: up two flights of steps, carrying supplies, to service twounits, then down. I spoke to a housekeeper about this and she said that she had worked at AKL and it was so much easier.

 

[thanxfornoticin]

The big mystery to me is the maintenance fee at AKL, as well as the relatively low point cost. I would think the cost of maintaining the animals, and to a lesser extent the extra Cast Members who are at the savannas, would be a huge expense.

Don't actually know for certain, but thought the animal care and staffing was associated with the AK park, not necessarily all to the Lodge. Perhaps the Lodge is an extension of the park care, although I'm sure our AKL membership/dues are paying for some of it!