March Break Flights

[Frozen2014]

But how have they been sold when they just rekeased?

 

[grantclaire]

I think they only have 8 to 10 fares at the lowest price and they could be sold out fast.

 

[bababear_50]

Cheapest one way back I can find is
MCO- YYZ one way Air Canada
Sunday March 17th
$440.00
Good grief this is stressful.

 

[bababear_50]

But how have they been sold when they just released?

When I called Westjet and inquired as to why expedia.ca had flights open they said Expedia buys blocks of flights from them before they (WestJet) open seats.
I am sure that when they opened the flights that someone in the know told someone and the 8-10 ECO flights were snapped up in minutes.
I have been reading in the news that two items are going to go up in price this year:
1. gas
2. airline flights.
so far they are right.
I hope for those waiting that the prices do come down,,me I jumped in and bought the return flight from Air Canada.

Hugs
Mel

 

[quandrea]

How does anyone afford these fares!

 

[Frozen2014]

When I called Westjet and inquired as to why expedia.ca had flights open they said Expedia buys blocks of flights from them before they (WestJet) open seats.
I am sure that when they opened the flights that someone in the know told someone and the 8-10 ECO flights were snapped up in minutes.
I have been reading in the news that two items are going to go up in price this year:
1. gas
2. airline flights.
so far they are right.
I hope for those waiting that the prices do come down,,me I jumped in and bought the return flight from Air Canada.

Hugs
Mel

Thanks for explaining. Thought it was odd that Expedia listed WestJet flights (and always a reasonable cost) but yet not out from WestJet or available from Expedia (got error if selected). Wondered if it was a "mistake" or a "prediction" of when they did release. They must have had very few of these.

I agree...travelling during holidays...which is only time many can travel so kids don't miss school or people in teaching professions can travel...is crazy expensive. We checked each airline and booked opening day for American Airlines and United and did 'ok' but noticed that prices rose very quickly. I'll be watching in the next year as I"m curious if they remain high.

Mel, glad that you are all set. Still think it's a cruel trick that WestJet held out releasing and then wasn't worth the wait at all...but glad you found a return flight...and you used WJ dollars going there. Good luck to others..

 

[FigmentSpark]

When I called Westjet and inquired as to why expedia.ca had flights open they said Expedia buys blocks of flights from them before they (WestJet) open seats.
I am sure that when they opened the flights that someone in the know told someone and the 8-10 ECO flights were snapped up in minutes.
I have been reading in the news that two items are going to go up in price this year:
1. gas
2. airline flights.
so far they are right.
I hope for those waiting that the prices do come down,,me I jumped in and bought the return flight from Air Canada.

Hugs
Mel

Is anyone else stunned that this is actually legal? Sounds like scalping to me.

 

[bankr63]

Is anyone else stunned that this is actually legal? Sounds like scalping to me.

Wouldn't call this scalping.

Airlines sell many seats at a loss to fill flights at less popular times (better to make some money on the seat than no money at all). At popular times, they sell seats at the highest price the market will bear (up to their highest list price at any time of the year) to recoup some of their losses on less popular times. Scalping is when someone else sells a ticket at a markup over what the original issuer charges to make an unreasonable profit. Some might call it gouging, but what is happening is they are not discounting an already set price for those dates; it's basically the same as hotel insisting on rack rate for a room at a popular time, or a car manufacturer insisting on full sticker price for a popular model. Doesn't even really qualify as gouging which is more along the lines of excessively inflating the price of an item in high demand beyond what is normally acceptable.

We are flying to Pacific Coast Mexico next March, and are routing through a Western province whose March break is 2 weeks later than Ontario to get as reasonable fare. Our WestJet Plus fares for a much longer flight than Orlando are considerably less than the Flex fares listed above.

 

[bankr63]

But how have they been sold when they just rekeased?

I, for one, have been watching WestJet's site daily waiting for my dates to release to secure early at the lowest price.

In a market like this, any cheap tickets will disappear almost instantly.

 

[FigmentSpark]

Wouldn't call this scalping.

Airlines sell many seats at a loss to fill flights at less popular times (better to make some money on the seat than no money at all). At popular times, they sell seats at the highest price the market will bear (up to their highest list price at any time of the year) to recoup some of their losses on less popular times. Scalping is when someone else sells a ticket at a markup over what the original issuer charges to make an unreasonable profit. Some might call it gouging, but what is happening is they are not discounting an already set price for those dates; it's basically the same as hotel insisting on rack rate for a room at a popular time, or a car manufacturer insisting on full sticker price for a popular model. Doesn't even really qualify as gouging which is more along the lines of excessively inflating the price of an item in high demand beyond what is normally acceptable.

We are flying to Pacific Coast Mexico next March, and are routing through a Western province whose March break is 2 weeks later than Ontario to get as reasonable fare. Our WestJet Plus fares for a much longer flight than Orlando are considerably less than the Flex fares listed above.

The reason I say it's scalping (and maybe not because it might not be marked up) is that they are given the opportunity, especially with computer systems in place to grab these things to earmark the cheapest flights for future sale. If they have clients that have said 'buy these seats as soon as they hit x price', then that's just being a good TA. But I doubt that's what's happening. They know if they grab the seats, they can resell them, but they don't necessarily have clients before they buy the seats.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding something?

 

[Canadian Girl]

I spoke to a WJ agent regarding flights from PEI. The sold out is a code they are using for flights that haven’t been fully loaded yet. He thought it might be another couple of weeks are they are still working on the winter schedule.

 

[bankr63]

The reason I say it's scalping (and maybe not because it might not be marked up) is that they are given the opportunity, especially with computer systems in place to grab these things to earmark the cheapest flights for future sale. If they have clients that have said 'buy these seats as soon as they hit x price', then that's just being a good TA. But I doubt that's what's happening. They know if they grab the seats, they can resell them, but they don't necessarily have clients before they buy the seats.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding something?

Airlines absolutely allow travel operators to block seats out on flights in advance of general release. That is the relationship between WestJet and WestJet Vacations and between AC and ACVacations among others. That is why sometimes ACV will have a seat on a flight when AC themselves do not; ACV hasn't sold their block. The commercial terms between the operator and the airline are not known to us, but I expect the operator pays nowhere near the price per seat we pay for ANY class of seat. Funny, but I didn't think that expedia worked as a travel operator in this sense, I thought they worked as a travel agent, who makes their money off of the commissions on booking with whatever source they have for their seats; so what the WJ agent indicated about expedia is new to me. All this to say though that the blocked seats only indirectly affect the public fare seats you see, and would not really constitute scalping if the tour operator doesn't add a hefty increase on the seat price above what the airline themselves charge.

You generally will NEVER find a WJ lowest fare seat on a popular day for a popular route. Look at the WJ calendar, and you will see that these seats are only available on less busy days on any given route. For sun destinations, you almost always see them on Monday-Wednesday only, and NEVER on a week/day where they expect that they can fill the flight (the days of the week offered are often a bit different for business destinations). @grantclaire is off in saying 8-10 of these seats, there are actually 0-10 low fare economy (Econo(lowest) in WJ parlance) seats on any given flight, and during March break it will be pretty much zero on any vacation destination throughout the week. These seats are "loss leaders" for the airlines, trying to induce travelers to fill a flight the airline knows is likely to fly partially loaded. Why offer a loss-leader when you know you are probably going to sell-out?

 

[grantclaire]

Airlines absolutely allow travel operators to block seats out on flights in advance of general release. That is the relationship between WestJet and WestJet Vacations and between AC and ACVacations among others. That is why sometimes ACV will have a seat on a flight when AC themselves do not; ACV hasn't sold their block. The commercial terms between the operator and the airline are not known to us, but I expect the operator pays nowhere near the price per seat we pay for ANY class of seat. Funny, but I didn't think that expedia worked as a travel operator in this sense, I thought they worked as a travel agent, who makes their money off of the commissions on booking with whatever source they have for their seats; so what the WJ agent indicated about expedia is new to me. All this to say though that the blocked seats only indirectly affect the public fare seats you see, and would not really constitute scalping if the tour operator doesn't add a hefty increase on the seat price above what the airline themselves charge.

You generally will NEVER find a WJ lowest fare seat on a popular day for a popular route. Look at the WJ calendar, and you will see that these seats are only available on less busy days on any given route. For sun destinations, you almost always see them on Monday-Wednesday only, and NEVER on a week/day where they expect that they can fill the flight (the days of the week offered are often a bit different for business destinations). @grantclaire is off in saying 8-10 of these seats, there are actually 0-10 low fare economy (Econo(lowest) in WJ parlance) seats on any given flight, and during March break it will be pretty much zero on any vacation destination throughout the week. These seats are "loss leaders" for the airlines, trying to induce travelers to fill a flight the airline knows is likely to fly partially loaded. Why offer a loss-leader when you know you are probably going to sell-out?

I am no expert and my numbers could be off, just trying to figure WestJet out! I think we can all agree that it is very hard to get a cheap fare on AC or WJ out of Pearson.

 

[hcox31]

I am no expert and my numbers could be off, just trying to figure WestJet out! I think we can all agree that it is very hard to get a cheap fare on AC or WJ out of Pearson.

It sure is.

I’m considering either moving my cruise from a 7 day to a 4 day so I’m not stuck flying on the Friday night of March Break. We really wanted to do the 7 day so this is a disappointing possibility (but better than nothing)

Other option is to book two one way fares. Round trips are way out of our budget it seems. If we fly home the day after we get off or cruise we can save about 300 PP on a different airline by booking a one way fare. Just because we would have more flexibility with our timeline.

Sigh.

 

[Frozen2014]

It's crazy. People need to be well off to be able to afford those prices...spending $5-6K for a family of 4. Driving is not an option for everyone (plus you lose days on either side). We got lucky as was able to grab "decent" flights there and back right at opening (different airlines) but otherwise would have been sad having to cancel our family trip.

 

[bankr63]

I am no expert and my numbers could be off, just trying to figure WestJet out! I think we can all agree that it is very hard to get a cheap fare on AC or WJ out of Pearson.

Didn't mean to sound critical at all, and to be honest, my "insider" view is a bit dated. I worked for a regional carrier years (actually decades) ago. Westjet hadn't started flying yet, and Wardair was often seen on the gate next to ours. I probably know more about the inside of the travel industry than most, but certainly not everything (I just sound like a know it all, I'm not). As noted, I thought expedia worked more on the TA commission model and didn't realize that they actually took block bookings like the tour operators. Things do change over time, so my knowledge is not the most current.

 

[grantclaire]

Didn't mean to sound critical at all, and to be honest, my "insider" view is a bit dated. I worked for a regional carrier years (actually decades) ago. Westjet hadn't started flying yet, and Wardair was often seen on the gate next to ours. I probably know more about the inside of the travel industry than most, but certainly not everything (I just sound like a know it all, I'm not). As noted, I thought expedia worked more on the TA commission model and didn't realize that they actually took block bookings like the tour operators. Things do change over time, so my knowledge is not the most current.

 

[grantclaire]

No problem! Did not take it as criticism, you always give good advice!

 

[grantclaire]

WestJet has released some more dates in March, much more reasonable prices. I understand supply and demand but the March break prices seemed to be gouging the consumer!

 

[bookbabe626]

I understand supply and demand but the March break prices seemed to be gouging the consumer!

All the airlines do that, and for all the school holiday likely travel dates. They know they'll fill the plane with people who want or need to travel then, so there's no incentive to offer a deal, or even a reasonable price. If you can travel two weeks before March Break, the identical flight will be half the price. It's one of my pet peeves.