HOA Boards Strike Again...

[MillauFr]

Explain to me why would someone want to live in one of these "communities"?

To beat the heat, an Arizona man offers free water. His HOA is fining him.​

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2024/09/04/hoa-free-water-fine-arizona/

 

[Marrila]

The news articles feature wacky extreme stories about wacky extreme HOA's.
They are not all like that.

 

[china mom]

HOAs have their pros and cons. I live in an HOA where we pay $150/yr in HOA fees to cover the cost of lighting and landscaping our entrance and other minor things. For the most part, we don't even know they exist as they don't do much. There was a kerfuffle a fee years ago when someone snitched on the family that had illegal goats and everyone took sides.

I am also a member of a community that is governed by two HOAs at once and I am on the Board of one of them. It is a resort community with 95% of the home being short term rentals.

The HOA is extremely picky but I will staunchly defend this. If my neighbor is allowed to change their house or let it fall into decline, it will affect my rental income. So, when they enforce the rule that my font door be painted an approved shade of blue, I can rest easy knowing that my neighbor will not be paining theirs hot pink.

But, yes, there are psycho HOAs that enforce crazy rules for no apparent reason.

 

[kdonnel]

Seems like he is breaking rules his wife agreed to follow when she purchased the home.

The HOA has requested that the portable ice chest be screened from view to comply with rules. They have not asked him to stop handing out water.

Seems like the HOA has offered up a way he can continue to provide water and be compliant with the rules.

He is taking a reckless course of action.

 

[MillauFr]

Seems like he is breaking rules his wife agreed to follow when she purchased the home.

The HOA has requested that the portable ice chest be screened from view to comply with rules. They have not asked him to stop handing out water.

Seems like the HOA has offered up a way he can continue to provide water and be compliant with the rules.

He is taking a reckless course of action.

I guess he mistakenly thought he lived in America where we have freedom instead of having to kowtow to the local political commissar.

 

[sam_gordon]

I guess he mistakenly thought he lived in America where we have freedom instead of having to kowtow to the local political commissar.

What part of "agreed to abide by the rules" means one isn't "free"?

Like @china mom, our HOA (and we've been here 20 years) is pretty much silent. They take our $150 dues each year, take care of upkeep at the front, organize a couple of yard sales through the year, and organize a couple of "get togethers" (bring in food trucks, etc).

Just like everything, there's good HOAs and bad ones. Of course the bad ones are the ones you hear about.

 

[tvguy]

The news articles feature wacky extreme stories about wacky extreme HOA's.
They are not all like that.

Enough of them are like that there are lawyers who only do HOA law. And actually, many of the issues it seems come from HOA boards that take actions outside what their bylaws say they can control.

 

[CAPSLOCK]

The HOA has requested that the portable ice chest be screened from view to comply with rules. They have not asked him to stop handing out water.

Seems like the HOA has offered up a way he can continue to provide water and be compliant with the rules.

This. I'm not sure why he's so opposed to setting up a visual barrier or moving the ice chest to a more agreeable location?

They agreed to buy a home overseen by a HOA. They had the opportunity to read all the rules and regulations, and they agreed to same. The HOA has every right to enforce the rules that these people agreed to.

I wouldn't particularly want to be in an HOA, although based on the state of the junk in the yards of a few of my neighbors, I can see why it would appeal to many.

 

[tvguy]

HOAs have their pros and cons. I live in an HOA where we pay $150/yr in HOA fees to cover the cost of lighting and landscaping our entrance and other minor things.

Wow, that is an amazingly low HOA fee. My daughter was looking at condos with HOAs, the the HOA fees put all the places she was looking at out of her price range. I think the lowest was $300 A MONTH, not a year, and one was $500. That was to pay for common area upkeep, lighting and the pool. There was one condo she looked at where the HOA diverted for 30 years the portion of the dues that was supposed to go into an escrow account to replace the roofs. Owners were being hit with a one time $15,000 immediate assessment. And over course of 30 years, how many individual people were on the HOA board and allowed that mistake to happen.

 

[CAPSLOCK]

Price wise, that's the difference between a condo HOA fee where the fee goes towards lots of upkeep (lawn care, sidewalks, roofs, snow removal, etc) vs a HOA fee amongst a neighborhood of houses where the fee goes towards a few minor neighborhood things, but all upkeep remains an individual responsibility.

 

[china mom]

Price wise, that's the difference between a condo HOA fee where the fee goes towards lots of upkeep (lawn care, sidewalks, roofs, snow removal, etc) vs a HOA fee amongst a neighborhood of houses where the fee goes towards a few minor neighborhood things, but all upkeep remains an individual responsibility.

100%. The HOA fee for my single family home is only $150 but there are almost no expenses for the HOA. The county maintain and plows the roads. Home maintenance and landscaping is the homeowners responsibility.

My townhouse in the resort is $500/mo but we have a 24/7 manned gate, pool, grounds, ,clubhouse, landscaping, power washing and the roof is HOA responsibility.

 

[Christine]

I will defend HOAs. In fact, mine doesn't go hard enough on people. I was on the architectural committee for one year and will never do it again. People are absolute dirtbags just because you want them to get rid of their knee-high grass and garbage. People have changed and have zero respect for their homes or properties as they did 30 years ago when I moved in. Why would one buy a 1/2 acre to 1 acre lot and think you NEVER had to maintain it or hire someone else to maintain it.

Off my soapbox. I pay about $300 per year which covers the administrative costs of the board/insurance/common areas AND our trash pickup which would be more if I did that myself.

In return, I expect a committee that will make sure that the people around me don't turn the neighborhood into some sort of junkyard-looking rat trap. We have a few neighborhoods up the road from us that do not have HOAs and they look AWFUL and have a lot of issues. Trash begets trash.

Now, some of the stories I've read can be a bit crazy and there are those that get on the boards and absolutely power trip. I don't think that's the norm but it makes for some good clickbait.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Wow, that is an amazingly low HOA fee. My daughter was looking at condos with HOAs, the the HOA fees put all the places she was looking at out of her price range. I think the lowest was $300 A MONTH, not a year, and one was $500. That was to pay for common area upkeep, lighting and the pool. There was one condo she looked at where the HOA diverted for 30 years the portion of the dues that was supposed to go into an escrow account to replace the roofs. Owners were being hit with a one time $15,000 immediate assessment. And over course of 30 years, how many individual people were on the HOA board and allowed that mistake to happen.

Condo associations are way different because owners only own "studs in" while the HOA owns and is thus responsible for "studs out". So there is often more costs for what it is with condos for things like reroofing an entire building or residing or paint work or electrical work, etc.

When you're talking about detached homes unless it's maintenance provided the HOA isn't responsible for all that extra stuff beyond what is common property and some include trash/recycling and some include snow removal. Costs are then often able to be lower the more homes are there (though not always).

Honestly most of the condo HOA stories that are bad ones around here tend to be because prior management did NOT charge enough money and now there's a huge increase in dues because the roof needs replacing on multiple units or the general upkeep of the buildings have been lacking.

 

[jimmymc]

In many places, you either have to buy a very old house or live in an HOA. Both options have pros and cons. HOAs generally do accomplish their purpose, which is maintaining public areas and increasing the value of homes in the neighborhood. But in some cases, you're also giving up a lot of freedom to customize the property you paid a lot of money for.

 

[Christine]

In many places, you either have to buy a very old house or live in an HOA. Both options have pros and cons. HOAs generally do accomplish their purpose, which is maintaining public areas and increasing the value of homes in the neighborhood. But in some cases, you're also giving up a lot of freedom to customize the property you paid a lot of money for.

Absolutely. And when you sign the papers to go into that community, I don't want to hear your complaining afterwards about abiding by the rules you agreed to. Too many people, anymore, think they rules apply to everyone else and somehow they are special, or they can bully their way out of them. Just sick of it.

 

[lovesmurfs]

We're new homeowners in an HOA for the first time. While we do pay a lot, it includes a lot -- pool, exercise room, golf course, and weekly lawn maintenance. We had to sign a lot of "we understands" and had to get approval by the HOA to purchase (Central Florida, so we also have a CDD fee).

Our particular HOA has an architectural committee, but they've been known to make exceptions to required colors/designs. Also, our HOA only issues citations, no fees.

It's only been a couple of months, but we haven't found it to be onerous at all.

 

[jimmymc]

Absolutely. And when you sign the papers to go into that community, I don't want to hear your complaining afterwards about abiding by the rules you agreed to. Too many people, anymore, think they rules apply to everyone else and somehow they are special, or they can bully their way out of them. Just sick of it.

This isn't as clear as "you signed up for it". Many HOA's won't even provide a full copy of the rules until you move in, well after closing date. HOA boards can also usually change the rules on a whim without a vote from the community. Those boards will also pick and choose when to enforce rules to the letter vs let things slide based on their friends.

I'm personally against HOAs for single family homes. In addition to the above issues, towns are more often pushing their responsibilities like snow removal and road maintenance on to HOAs so they can free up room in the budget. This gives HOAs more power to enforce rules that aren't shared with most buyers up front and can be quickly changed and arbitrarily enforced. If I buy a single family home, I will be avoiding them if I have a choice.

 

[sam_gordon]

This isn't a clear as "you signed up for it". Many HOA's won't even provide a full copy of the rules until you move in, well after closing date. HOA boards can also usually change the rules on a whim without a vote from the community. Those boards will also pick and choose when to enforce rules to the letter vs let things slide based on their friends.

I would say those are poor HOAs. If you can't get a full copy of the rules? Don't buy. If the rules say the boards can change the rules on a whim without a community vote? Don't buy. "But Sam, we HAVE to have THAT house! It's perfect for it and we LOVE it!" As Sherman Potter would say "Bull Puckey!"

I'm personally against HOAs for single family homes. In addition to the above issues, towns are more often pushing their responsibilities like snow removal and road maintenance on to HOAs so they can free up room in the budget. This gives HOAs more power to enforce rules that aren't shared with most buyers up front and can be quickly changed and arbitrarily enforced. If I buy a single family home, I will be avoiding them if I have a choice.

And that's totally your choice. Not every HOA is evil. Talk to some homeowners (not just the sellers) in the neighborhood you're looking to move to. See what they think.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

HOA boards can also usually change the rules on a whim without a vote from the community.

That depends on how they are set up. In ours a vote occurs if an increase in dues is 50% or more than current dues (which are yearly), otherwise no. Like one year we were charged $120 "one time fee" to pay for a pickleball/basketball combo court (cost more than $70K total) which did not need approval from residents as it was less than half of the HOA due. While many of us grumbled about it the pickleball court especially gets heavily used (pickleball is extremely big here in our metro); the court is free to use for residents though we've had to pay a few times already out of the HOA operating budget to replace nets and other equipment including the storage box used to store those items when someone vandalized it. However, all changes to the covenants must go through the lawyers AND be refiled with the city. For those reasons there have been multiple things that have opted to not be changed (changes that were positive, changes that were negative) because of the cost and hassle analysis.

Definitely there are HOAs that don't abide by even their own rules they set up for how changes should be done though.

 

[tvguy]

Condo associations are way different because owners only own "studs in" while the HOA owns and is thus responsible for "studs out". So there is often more costs for what it is with condos for things like reroofing an entire building or residing or paint work or electrical work, etc.

When you're talking about detached homes unless it's maintenance provided the HOA isn't responsible for all that extra stuff beyond what is common property and some include trash/recycling and some include snow removal. Costs are then often able to be lower the more homes are there (though not always).

Honestly most of the condo HOA stories that are bad ones around here tend to be because prior management did NOT charge enough money and now there's a huge increase in dues because the roof needs replacing on multiple units or the general upkeep of the buildings have been lacking.

Like I said, it has been my experience that HOAs that follow their bylaws do far better than those that venture into areas that the developer that build their project never intended them to have control over. There is a big area of HOA controlled homes near me, all controlled by different HOAs, and most are detached houses where the HOA is responsible for all the front yard landscaping and upkeep of the FRONT of the house, only. They pay to keep the paint nice, etc.
One has a restriction that you have to have your cars in the garage after 8 pm. No cars are allowed in the driveway or the street after 8 pm. That is all disclosed before you buy a home there. For the most part residents like it. Only issue I am aware of was when a crime in the area and the Police wanted to set up an undercover stake out 24 hours a day, but couldn't because their vehicle would have been the only car on the street between 8 pm and 6 am.