Disney announces new Ticket system for WDW

[Ponderer]

What is the peak pricing that people are willing to pay? I guess Disney and myself are interested...

Since 2010, Reg ticket prices have increased roughly 50% (math becomes fuzzy as there were new tiers created in that time) and Ap's (Traditional AP's) have increased roughly 70%.

The question becomes, could you see yourself paying 50% and 70% more than today's prices in 8 years? That would put the traditional AP at roughly $1426 and a one day ticket at roughly $172 (no park hopper).....

I will say that for us, we are likely done as Apers. Was fun while it lasted!

Well, there's going to be an upper limit, which is probably why Disney is finding ways to nickel and dime elsewhere. It's been easy for them in the past - when you look at the historical graph, every decade or so, ticket prices have gone up 200-400 percent since 1971. It's an easy, reliable pattern to get sucked into, but it's going to reach a breaking point. Hell, even regular tickets going up 50 percent in 8 years suggests diminishing returns.

We're in the last age of the big ticket price jump, and it's not a surprise that Disney is milking it at this moment. The future of Disney profitability lies in value-added stuff. It has to. Ticket prices don't have much further to bend. Hotels have a little more flexibility based on increasing amenities, but with all the competition in the area, that can only go so far as well.

 

[HuskieJohn]

Well, there's going to be an upper limit, which is probably why Disney is finding ways to nickel and dime elsewhere. It's been easy for them in the past - when you look at the historical graph, every decade or so, ticket prices have gone up 200-400 percent since 1971. It's an easy, reliable pattern to get sucked into, but it's going to reach a breaking point. Hell, even regular tickets going up 50 percent in 8 years suggests diminishing returns.

We're in the last age of the big ticket price jump, and it's not a surprise that Disney is milking it at this moment. The future of Disney profitability lies in value-added stuff. It has to. Ticket prices don't have much further to bend. Hotels have a little more flexibility based on increasing amenities, but with all the competition in the area, that can only go so far as well.

Maybe the beginning of the last age...

For Spring 2020 (after SWGE opens) my group would be willing to pay double the new peak ticket price (over spring break) if that price increase meant a guaranteed reduction of max capacity by 25% for each park for that time period. Granted we only visit once every 5 years but I bet there are enough people who would be willing to do the same.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Maybe the beginning of the last age...

For Spring 2020 (after SWGE opens) my group would be willing to pay double the new peak ticket price (over spring break) if that price increase meant a guaranteed reduction of max capacity by 25% for each park for that time period. Granted we only visit once every 5 years but I bet there are enough people who would be willing to do the same.

I am sure there are a lot of people that would - at least for Galaxy's Edge. So I suspect to see a lot of paid access events - like paid Extra Morning Hours (like for Toy Story Land) or VIP tours for the land/park like they have at Animal Kingdom - or both, and paid Evening hours or whatever .... plus of course the coming Star Wars Hotel which I am sure a stay will include some exclusive access to the land

I could see it for EPCOT too once Guardians is open - paid morning hours that get you access to that and Rat and a breakfast in France or something

I think it will continue to be ore of thse separate ticket events vs capping park access lower during normal operating hours

 

[dlavender]

Well, there's going to be an upper limit, which is probably why Disney is finding ways to nickel and dime elsewhere. It's been easy for them in the past - when you look at the historical graph, every decade or so, ticket prices have gone up 200-400 percent since 1971. It's an easy, reliable pattern to get sucked into, but it's going to reach a breaking point. Hell, even regular tickets going up 50 percent in 8 years suggests diminishing returns.

We're in the last age of the big ticket price jump, and it's not a surprise that Disney is milking it at this moment. The future of Disney profitability lies in value-added stuff. It has to. Ticket prices don't have much further to bend. Hotels have a little more flexibility based on increasing amenities, but with all the competition in the area, that can only go so far as well.

I want you to be right about the last big ticket price jump, but I'm just not certain. I'm starting to feel as though they are wanting to push AP's ( at least the FL resident ones) out, or at least bump them down to a more regulated pass. It's all about per guest spend now. I bet their data shows that a visitor with 1 week's worth of tickets is more profitable than the traditional APer. It's easier for them to plan around, and I'm willing to bet people are willing to spend more to get their money's worth if they are only there for a week (time is money). If you have an AP, you aren't going to spend on the upsells, especially as a FL resident. You'll just come back another time. I would also guess that they aren't spending on the buffets and merchandise as well (from personal experience). 70% in 8 years is pretty telling, just as the 10% in this year alone is. Disney would be happier with me spending $400 for a week's worth of tickets vs me spending $850 for the year. I'm guessing that if the economy stays strong for the next few years, we will easily see that pass eclipse $1k.

I could be wrong, but the trends suggest that that is the case. Now if an economic downturn happens, we'll see it swing back the other way. But they are definitely striking while the iron is hot.

 

[tlmadden73]

We're in the last age of the big ticket price jump, and it's not a surprise that Disney is milking it at this moment. The future of Disney profitability lies in value-added stuff. It has to. Ticket prices don't have much further to bend. Hotels have a little more flexibility based on increasing amenities, but with all the competition in the area, that can only go so far as well.

Plus a huge "regular" price allows Disney to discount things at will to make it "seem" like a deal. The regular price is rarely what people pay. I mean they already do that by giving you a steep discount if you go 5 days or more. $75/day doesn't seem bad when the "normal" 1-day price is $109.

Probably the same here. Disney can now offer ticket discounts (just like they do with the hotels) to make it more palatable without technically lowering their prices.

I want you to be right about the last big ticket price jump, but I'm just not certain. I'm starting to feel as though they are wanting to push AP's ( at least the FL resident ones) out, or at least bump them down to a more regulated pass. It's all about per guest spend now. I bet their data shows that a visitor with 1 week's worth of tickets is more profitable than the traditional APer. It's easier for them to plan around, and I'm willing to bet people are willing to spend more to get their money's worth if they are only there for a week (time is money).

Disney (due to increasing crowds) wants to be able to control those crowds for sure. By basically saying WHEN you are going Disney knows how to staff, etc.
Disney is about the upsells lately though. Frankly Disney would probably make a ton of money on upsells and souvenirs if they simply let ALL children in free. imagine that? I know I'd be willing to buy more character meals if my kids were getting in the parks for free!

 

[dlavender]

Disney (due to increasing crowds) wants to be able to control those crowds for sure. By basically saying WHEN you are going Disney knows how to staff, etc.
Disney is about the upsells lately though. Frankly Disney would probably make a ton of money on upsells and souvenirs if they simply let ALL children in free. imagine that? I know I'd be willing to buy more character meals if my kids were getting in the parks for free!

I really dislike the upsells. It gives them too much incentive to restrict rides. SWGE should be opening with at least 3. Pandora should have had 3, or at least 2 good ones. TSL should have had 3, or at least 2 good ones. But with 1 great ride, it creates a crazy amount of demand for that ride, thus creating the perfect upsell opportunity. It makes FP's rare, driving demand for those.

It's my big problem with the increases. Yes we are eventually getting new things, but essentially you are paying 50% more over the last 8 years for the same rides, as you won't be able to get close to the new one's without paying more.

They would have to increase the prices of the buffets if they let children in free to make up for the lost $90 or so at the gate.

 

[Ponderer]

I really dislike the upsells. It gives them too much incentive to restrict rides. SWGE should be opening with at least 3. Pandora should have had 3, or at least 2 good ones. TSL should have had 3, or at least 2 good ones. But with 1 great ride, it creates a crazy amount of demand for that ride, thus creating the perfect upsell opportunity. It makes FP's rare, driving demand for those.

It's my big problem with the increases. Yes we are eventually getting new things, but essentially you are paying 50% more over the last 8 years for the same rides, as you won't be able to get close to the new one's without paying more.

They would have to increase the prices of the buffets if they let children in free to make up for the lost $90 or so at the gate.

I think SWGE is aiming to change the entire notion of what a theme park can be, so I personally hold back in commenting on that. TSL should've had more because it's basically a carnival land. It should have 5 new rides, straight up. But when you're actually participating and interacting with the land, when you're a CHARACTER as part of storylines -- well, I don't know if any of us understands what that's going to require in terms of traditional rides. Though I'll always certainly vote for more.

 

[Spaceguy55]

Even with the price increase for us FL AP's we have the option to pay monthly with no interest. So it comes out to about 1 to 4 bucks a month. But if you start new they did raise the down payment to $129 up from$112.
Yes they want to tighten up on us but not to the point of losing us, the blackout dates coming for next fall will be the test...
They know they will always need the FL AP's to get them thru the next downturn so I don't think they will want to run us off ...yet.

 

[tlmadden73]

I really dislike the upsells. It gives them too much incentive to restrict rides. SWGE should be opening with at least 3. Pandora should have had 3, or at least 2 good ones. TSL should have had 3, or at least 2 good ones. But with 1 great ride, it creates a crazy amount of demand for that ride, thus creating the perfect upsell opportunity. It makes FP's rare, driving demand for those.

The FP system has been an incredible business opportunity .. especially since they "control" the Fast Passes distribution and create higher demand.

Step 1) Make a new land
Step 2) Make all those new rides "Tier 1" (allowing you to only skip the line of one of them)
Step 3) Create an upsell event (EMM, DAH, or a tour) that gives you access to those rides without fighting the crowds.
Step 4) Get rid of EMH altogether at that park (why give away for free, what many are easily willing to pay for).

We haven't seen step 4 yet, but I think we will. As it stands now .. it seems like you have ONE day per week to find an EMH for DHS or AK. If you have a Disney trip for 5-6 park days .. you may not even have an opportunity for EMH at one of those parks.

 

[Doug M]

The FP system has been an incredible business opportunity .. especially since they "control" the Fast Passes distribution and create higher demand.

Step 1) Make a new land
Step 2) Make all those new rides "Tier 1" (allowing you to only skip the line of one of them)
Step 3) Create an upsell event (EMM, DAH, or a tour) that gives you access to those rides without fighting the crowds.
Step 4) Get rid of EMH altogether at that park (why give away for free, what many are easily willing to pay for).

We haven't seen step 4 yet, but I think we will. As it stands now .. it seems like you have ONE day per week to find an EMH for DHS or AK. If you have a Disney trip for 5-6 park days .. you may not even have an opportunity for EMH at one of those parks.

Well didn't EMH evenings used to be 3 hours and now that is reduced in length and like you said less days per week. I also forecast that going away or being rare if it stays.

 

[dlavender]

The FP system has been an incredible business opportunity .. especially since they "control" the Fast Passes distribution and create higher demand.

Step 1) Make a new land
Step 2) Make all those new rides "Tier 1" (allowing you to only skip the line of one of them)
Step 3) Create an upsell event (EMM, DAH, or a tour) that gives you access to those rides without fighting the crowds.
Step 4) Get rid of EMH altogether at that park (why give away for free, what many are easily willing to pay for).

We haven't seen step 4 yet, but I think we will. As it stands now .. it seems like you have ONE day per week to find an EMH for DHS or AK. If you have a Disney trip for 5-6 park days .. you may not even have an opportunity for EMH at one of those parks.

They also flooded EMH adding access for more people, further eroding the benefit...

 

[xWilliam]

I want you to be right about the last big ticket price jump, but I'm just not certain. I'm starting to feel as though they are wanting to push AP's ( at least the FL resident ones) out, or at least bump them down to a more regulated pass. It's all about per guest spend now. I bet their data shows that a visitor with 1 week's worth of tickets is more profitable than the traditional APer. It's easier for them to plan around, and I'm willing to bet people are willing to spend more to get their money's worth if they are only there for a week (time is money). If you have an AP, you aren't going to spend on the upsells, especially as a FL resident. You'll just come back another time. I would also guess that they aren't spending on the buffets and merchandise as well (from personal experience). 70% in 8 years is pretty telling, just as the 10% in this year alone is. Disney would be happier with me spending $400 for a week's worth of tickets vs me spending $850 for the year. I'm guessing that if the economy stays strong for the next few years, we will easily see that pass eclipse $1k.

I could be wrong, but the trends suggest that that is the case. Now if an economic downturn happens, we'll see it swing back the other way. But they are definitely striking while the iron is hot.

Disneyland already has hit and passed the $1k mark. It's inevitable. From my understanding Disneyland has way more annual pass attendance than wdw does. Disney won't slow down until park attendance declines. Despite all the price raises the parks are as crowded as ever.

Disneyland rarely has slow days anymore like they did 2-3 years ago. And WDW's slow days are still packed if you compare wait times to Disneyland. Until there's any sort of decline, prices will keep raising

 

[manning]

What is the peak pricing that people are willing to pay? I guess Disney and myself are interested...

Since 2010, Reg ticket prices have increased roughly 50% (math becomes fuzzy as there were new tiers created in that time) and Ap's (Traditional AP's) have increased roughly 70%.

The question becomes, could you see yourself paying 50% and 70% more than today's prices in 8 years? That would put the traditional AP at roughly $1426 and a one day ticket at roughly $172 (no park hopper).....

I will say that for us, we are likely done as Apers. Was fun while it lasted!

Way way higher than inflation isn't yet

I'm not going to be a sucker, I sitting by the pool. One good thing I bought DVC when it was $65.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

The FP system has been an incredible business opportunity .. especially since they "control" the Fast Passes distribution and create higher demand.

Step 1) Make a new land
Step 2) Make all those new rides "Tier 1" (allowing you to only skip the line of one of them)
Step 3) Create an upsell event (EMM, DAH, or a tour) that gives you access to those rides without fighting the crowds.
Step 4) Get rid of EMH altogether at that park (why give away for free, what many are easily willing to pay for).

We haven't seen step 4 yet, but I think we will. As it stands now .. it seems like you have ONE day per week to find an EMH for DHS or AK. If you have a Disney trip for 5-6 park days .. you may not even have an opportunity for EMH at one of those parks.

Some of it becomes new a self fulfilling prophecy amongst Disney park goers too. Look at Peter Pan - words gets around that it is the “must do ride” and the line builds and then people get even more crazy about planning to do the ride and the lines build even more

 

[SaharanTea]

They also flooded EMH adding access for more people, further eroding the benefit...

They also cut CMs and halfed the capacity of some of the rides. Making what should have been fairly short rides into similar wait times of peak hours.

 

[Mike White]

What is the peak pricing that people are willing to pay? I guess Disney and myself are interested...

Since 2010, Reg ticket prices have increased roughly 50% (math becomes fuzzy as there were new tiers created in that time) and Ap's (Traditional AP's) have increased roughly 70%.

The question becomes, could you see yourself paying 50% and 70% more than today's prices in 8 years? That would put the traditional AP at roughly $1426 and a one day ticket at roughly $172 (no park hopper).....

I will say that for us, we are likely done as Apers. Was fun while it lasted!

The peak before attendance begins to suffer is $185 per day for non-park hopper. They can gingerly walk up to that line or they can sprint towards it but the end result will be the same. They will start eating at the attendance edges first with larger families (families with 3 kids or more) and folks from farther way from the park (travel costs will push the price to a level where 'premium travel (i.e. Europe or longer cruises)' will be more affordable than Disney). The edge will shrink inward as Disney responds to the various challenges that will come out of that.

Disney will also respond to point rentals by enacting strict obstacles for 3rd parties but will alleviate some of the bad feelings by forming their own service to assist DVC owners with renting their points. They will also push the price per point to a level that keeps it from being a preferred method for people on the fence about buying their own DVC points. Point rentals will see a per point price of ~$25-30 per point.

They will continue to explore ways to put a price tag on any factors of a vacation that can lead to variables that can be controlled (choose the exact room you want at your resort for a small upcharge, unlimited Minnie Van usage for larger upcharge to avoid waiting for the bus/boat, personal appointment times with specific characters outside of meet and greets for a larger upcharge, etc).

 

[dlavender]

The peak before attendance begins to suffer is $185 per day for non-park hopper. They can gingerly walk up to that line or they can sprint towards it but the end result will be the same. They will start eating at the attendance edges first with larger families (families with 3 kids or more) and folks from farther way from the park (travel costs will push the price to a level where 'premium travel (i.e. Europe or longer cruises)' will be more affordable than Disney). The edge will shrink inward as Disney responds to the various challenges that will come out of that.

Disney will also respond to point rentals by enacting strict obstacles for 3rd parties but will alleviate some of the bad feelings by forming their own service to assist DVC owners with renting their points. They will also push the price per point to a level that keeps it from being a preferred method for people on the fence about buying their own DVC points. Point rentals will see a per point price of ~$25-30 per point.

They will continue to explore ways to put a price tag on any factors of a vacation that can lead to variables that can be controlled (choose the exact room you want at your resort for a small upcharge, unlimited Minnie Van usage for larger upcharge to avoid waiting for the bus/boat, personal appointment times with specific characters outside of meet and greets for a larger upcharge, etc).

I feel $185 is high for a day's visit, and after $130 they should see some push back, as evidenced by the much slower uptick of the one day ticket over the last 5 years (Average of 4% per year), with the largest increase (10%) happening in 2017. It's only raised about 3% since that time on the single day (depending on travel times). Ap's, meanwhile, are just ramping up, going from 5% in 2017, 10% 2018, and 13% present....It shows me that the single ticket pricing is reaching its ceiling.

I've often wondered why they allow point rentals. Seems to undercut their deluxe hotel pricing structure. Not sure if its in the DVC contracts or not. If it is, then there isn't much they can do, as those contracts have like 30 years left on them. I could see WDW stepping in as you state and offering their own rental service, and to entice owner's to not go 3rd party offering some perks like more $ per point or something like that.

I agree that we are just scratching the surface of the upsell possibilities. Pretty soon you'll be able to schedule everything down to the minute, if you want, for a fee. Minnie Vans, special meets, etc....as you stated.

 

[tlmadden73]

It will probably come full circle over time. People will have enough of the high price of entry AND the upsells and Disney will begin offering "all inclusive" style vacations if attendance drops off because of all the high prices.

 

[Bing Showei]

I've often wondered why they allow point rentals. Seems to undercut their deluxe hotel pricing structure. Not sure if its in the DVC contracts or not. If it is, then there isn't much they can do, as those contracts have like 30 years left on them.

Rentals are explicitly permitted as stated in the POS (Public Offering Statement) so in the case of Copper Creek, that’s another 50 years. Rentals present a flexibility to DVC ownership that affords the product added value. Take that flexibility away and Disney devalues the very product it’s trying to sell.

Disney will also respond to point rentals by enacting strict obstacles for 3rd parties but will alleviate some of the bad feelings by forming their own service to assist DVC owners with renting their points. They will also push the price per point to a level that keeps it from being a preferred method for people on the fence about buying their own DVC points. Point rentals will see a per point price of ~$25-30 per point.

I agree that when rentals begin to undermine their hotel business, Disney will address it, but that will likely be done on an individual level - levers already exist to do this. Broad policy changes that challenge explicit language in the POS and effect a broad membership population will only invite a class-level litigious response.

 

[Josh Hendy]

More and more, I feel out of step with Disney and their theme park products. What my family loves about WDW ... the rides, the ambiance, the music, live entertainment and the (formerly) easy, casual, nearly plan-less way of booking trips and touring the parks ... makes me feel like I'm a "bad customer".

The only consolation is that I think the bubble is about to burst and Disney will inevitably have to give up on the goofy, IT-driven, margin-boosting, hare-brained schemes like tiered admission days, tiered ride passes, tiered hours, tiered entertainment, tiered everything.

Disney is competing with nice, quiet, inclusive destinations such as beaches, national parks, quaint cultural locations and good old fashioned "staycations". Nobody is going to pull their hair out looking at a web site trying to figure out which day they can afford to visit a museum versus go to the beach, and whether there's a "meal plan" in old Charleston SC that allows them to have crab cake appetizers as well as dessert. Are they going to continue pulling their hair out for much longer worrying about how to get it at WDW while also somehow fitting in Slinky Dog and Millenium Falcon rides?