Dark descent into depravity

[luvsJack]

I am a mental health professional & know many others in the profession...and it’s just NOT the simple. If it were, it would be done. Psychology & psychiatry are not exact sciences. It is not easy to tell who will or won’t do something. No mental health professional would agree to commit a kid for the rest of his life no matter how disturbed his writing is. I’ve worked in facilities where professionals couldn’t even agree on freedoms that should be allowed a resident in the facility b/c some thought they were more dangerous than others,etc. While it’s usually not surprising when someone like Lanza does something like this due to his history that is very different from accurately predicting beforehand that he would. Mentally ill ppl still have rights. Just b/c someone writes or says things like he did, does not mean he will do anything. Many ppl never act upon their thoughts/delusions. In mental health, the agreed upon thought is the biggest predictor of future behavior is current behavior. According to current info, this kid hadn’t done anything before. I would not want to live in a society where we lock up ppl b/c of something they might do. See 1984 & the thought police.

Again, it was said that the guy needed medication before the tragedy. It may not have stopped anything but it may have. So here is where we are, we could have taken away his mother’s right to own a gun or take away his freedom to not receive treatment. Which do we do?

What’s the answer?

Of course we can’t just lock up people wily nily, and I never said anything about the rest of his life.

How many things did the kid say or write that were cries for help? Or at least huge red flags? We don’t want to be the thought police, I give you that, but at what point does it become apparent that someone needs more help than a weekly session is going to do? And obviously they aren’t going to choose to get that help, so we wait until they take action to prove their are immediate danger?

 

[luvsJack]

I watched that too. And, again, in my professional experience, parents are almost always the biggest issue whether through their action or inaction. So then what do we do?

So you hold to the “it’s always the mother’s fault” train of thought? (Not saying it’s right or wrong, just asking).

This kid was born with these issues. His mom did fail him but so did a lot of things. Schools, mental health professionals, parents.

Casey Anthony, yeah, she was a product of a mother blind to her daughter’s issues and basically a spoiled brat that didn’t think she should have to give up anything for her child.

 

[LSUmiss]

Again, it was said that the guy needed medication before the tragedy. It may not have stopped anything but it may have. So here is where we are, we could have taken away his mother’s right to own a gun or take away his freedom to not receive treatment. Which do we do?

What’s the answer?

Of course we can’t just lock up people wily nily, and I never said anything about the rest of his life.

How many things did the kid say or write that were cries for help? Or at least huge red flags? We don’t want to be the thought police, I give you that, but at what point does it become apparent that someone needs more help than a weekly session is going to do? And obviously they aren’t going to choose to get that help, so we wait until they take action to prove their are immediate danger?

Right. In this case the mother was the problem, not mental health laws. What you’re talking about can be done through court proceedings, but he would need to be an adult. I think he had stopped treatment by then. Before that he was the mother’s responsibility.

 

[LSUmiss]

So you hold to the “it’s always the mother’s fault” train of thought? (Not saying it’s right or wrong, just asking).

This kid was born with these issues. His mom did fail him but so did a lot of things. Schools, mental health professionals, parents.

Casey Anthony, yeah, she was a product of a mother blind to her daughter’s issues and basically a spoiled brat that didn’t think she should have to give up anything for her child.

How do you know he was born with these issues? As far as I know, nature vs nurture has not been decided. Maybe not the “mother”, but the parents for sure. I have worked in child therapy all the way to prison mental health & pretty much everything in between & the parents/guardians are almost always the biggest issue!

 

[cabanafrau]

I watched that too. And, again, in my professional experience, parents are almost always the biggest issue whether through their action or inaction. So then what do we do?

IMO we need to step forward as a society and push for easier and better access to mental health treatment. Doing so will impact the quality of life for so many people. It will also likely help strip away some of the stigma of mental and psychological illness and disorders, and eliminate the idea that seeking treatment is somehow shameful.

It won't fix everyone and everything. But it makes more sense to me to try to expend our resources trying to make quality of life better versus many people falling through the cracks, becoming addicted to drugs, falling into criminal behaviors and being incarcerated, committing or being victimized by violence, perpetuating many of these problems from generation to generation by raising our children in needlessly chaotic situations, etc.

Resources invested in improving the psychological health of one individual may well benefit that individual, their household, their neighbors, their coworkers, etc., etc, etc. Who knows what potential some of these people have that could potentially be uncovered and ultimately serve to benefit society if only they're given the access to treatment that may help them function with stability and psychological health?

 

[wvjules]

I just read the article and I'm really not sure what to feel about him now. We always say that mental illness should be treated like a physical illness, but when someone with a mental illness does something as horrific as this it is never like that. And that we need to have better understanding of mental health issues and better access to help. What he did was beyond horrific and I can't imagine the pain and suffering of the parents, families, friends and community. But on the other hand, was he in control of his emotions/thoughts and actions? Was he a victim as well? I really don't know. He clearly had mental issues dating back to before he was 3 (BEFORE HE WAS 3!!!!). I'm really not sure what I'm trying to say. Could this have been prevented if he'd gotten more intensive help? Hospitalization? Etc? I don't know. But I do know that if I were reading that article about anyone else (that didn't murder a bunch of 6 year olds), I would feel really sorry for him.

 

[TheConsciousness]

But I do know that if I were reading that article about anyone else (that didn't murder a bunch of 6 year olds), I would feel really sorry for him.

That is what this country needs, more people who are compassionate to the plight of others. Not loons that say "we should have locked him up and thrown away the key, then this wouldn't have happened".

 

[kirstenb1]

I think Adam was born with every card stacked against him, in terms of mental health. I also think his mom did every thing she could for so many years. Can you imagine having a kid who can't tolerate so many common things? Extreme sensory issues. That alone would have me walking on eggshells, and often just trying to keep calm and peace in the home. Coupled with violent fantasies. I honestly think I would have turned him over to a mental health residential facility. Obviously his mom shouldn't have had any guns in the house, but I think she worked really hard to help him try to overcome the horrible hand he was dealt.

My inlaws had to grant custody of their daughter to the state, in order to get her residential mental health help. She was schizophrenic as a teenager, and more than they could handle. She's now in her 40s, and has 3 children, and lives independently.

 

[Colleen27]

I won't read it It happened not that far from where I live, it happened on my birthday also, sigh, and the fact that better gun laws or better laws all around didn't happen after THAT GUY very very disgusted. Yeah there were somethings done but please. I also believe mental illness played a factor of course, but also just plain freaking evil. I don't care if you were bullied, not all people that are bullied or something happened to end up killing children. Maybe some people just enjoy evil. And some of the blood is on the mother's hands too. I drive past that area every so often and you can just feel an evil energy as you go through the area, maybe subconsciously. Just horrifying.

The bullying narrative seldom holds up about these shooters, FYI. It always gets thrown out there by the media and school officials or other students in the immediate aftermath, but seldom survives closer scrutiny.

I think Adam was born with every card stacked against him, in terms of mental health. I also think his mom did every thing she could for so many years. Can you imagine having a kid who can't tolerate so many common things? Extreme sensory issues. That alone would have me walking on eggshells, and often just trying to keep calm and peace in the home. Coupled with violent fantasies. I honestly think I would have turned him over to a mental health residential facility. Obviously his mom shouldn't have had any guns in the house, but I think she worked really hard to help him try to overcome the horrible hand he was dealt.

I can't imagine it. But I also can't imagine parenting a deeply troubled child and not being willing to try everything possible to help. I can't imagine seeking help and then ignoring what highly qualified professionals had to say in favor of what? Her gut instinct? What the mentally ill child himself preferred? Parenting is hard, but pushing what is best even if it isn't what is easiest or most comfortable (from the child's view) is part of the job, IMO. Especially when it comes to things like sensory issues and OCD tendencies, where the hard work of developing coping strategies rather than avoidance plans often pays off in significant improvement in daily functioning.

 

[DLgal]

This article was very sad for me to read. As a mother of two teen sons with autism, a lot of things were relatable. Thankfully, neither of my kids is even remotely violent or self loathing. They dont like even the idea of anyone getting hurt or sick. We have tried to create an atmosphere in our home of unconditional love, support, and encouragement. I spend hours and hours advocating for them at school so that they can remain among peers, while being fully supported. I will NOT ever homeschool them, even though they would probably both prefer to never leave home. They HAVE to go out into the world and figure out their place in it. feel like the mother in this case failed on several levels, and while I don't blame her for her child's many diagnoses, I feel like she likely didn't provide the type of environment that this kid needed. I came away feeling very sorry for Adam.

Nothing excuses the terrible act he committed. It was obviously that of a person who had lost touch with every aspect of what it means to be a human being.

 

[tinkerdorabelle]

The bullying narrative seldom holds up about these shooters, FYI. It always gets thrown out there by the media and school officials or other students in the immediate aftermath, but seldom survives closer scrutiny.

Yes I agree. I do believe this kid was mentally ill from reading what I have. The question is for me at what point are people held responsible for doing evil. We can't make excuses for all of it. Yes there are extenuating circumstances including bullying in many cases and for some as I do believe in this case they are mentally ill, but for others they choose evil. In this kid's case, I believe bad parenting and mental illness, possible bullying and other neurological things may have contributed but still. It angers me that people don't make the connection between guns also. He never would have been able to kill as many as he did without the weapons he had. His mother is also partly to blame. It angers me that there were not enough laws put in place after this horrifying shooting.

 

[GreatLakes]

The bullying narrative seldom holds up about these shooters, FYI. It always gets thrown out there by the media and school officials or other students in the immediate aftermath, but seldom survives closer scrutiny.

And that goes all the way back to Columbine. I can't remember which of those two was actually relatively popular and there is no evidence either was bullied.

 

[DLgal]

Mental illness can be a scary and confusing thing, that's for sure. Considering how sick he was, I'm surprised he was so high functioning as well, all things considered.

He was not high functioning at all.

He had high intelligence, likely, based on his extensive vocabulary and ability to think deeply and philosophically. However, he couldn't leave his house, and really, his room. He couldn't stand being around others, couldn't stand being touched even accidentally, had crippling OCD and anxiety. He could not adequately take care of his nutritional or medical needs. He could not attend public school, or college. He didn't drive a car. He didn't have a job.

I would call that pretty low functioning, personally.

 

[Floridaman999]

I think the people who complain of being perpetually bullied is more a symptom of their mental illness than it is a true reflection of their reality.

 

[Floridaman999]

He was not high functioning at all.

He had high intelligence, likely, based on his extensive vocabulary and ability to think deeply and philosophically. However, he couldn't leave his house, and really, his room. He couldn't stand being around others, couldn't stand being touched even accidentally, had crippling OCD and anxiety. He could not adequately take care of his nutritional or medical needs. He could not attend public school, or college. He didn't drive a car. He didn't have a job.

I would call that pretty low functioning, personally.

I guess I meant it all in a relative sense. Again, all things considered.

 

[DLgal]

I think the people who complain of being perpetually bullied is more a symptom of their mental illness than it is a true reflection of their reality.

This is probably sometimes true, but as a parent of two special needs teens, I can tell you that kids are cruel sometimes too and I don't doubt for a second that this boy was a target for bullying. It can really cause a lot of damage, especially when kids with special needs are mocked for things out of their control (like speech issues). It is very sad to witness and it causes a lot of self loathing in these kids.

 

[Floridaman999]

This is probably sometimes true, but as a parent of two special needs teens, I can tell you that kids are cruel sometimes too and I don't doubt for a second that this boy was a target for bullying. It can really cause a lot of damage, especially when kids with special needs are mocked for things out of their control (like speech issues). It is very sad to witness and it causes a lot of self loathing in these kids.

I think the mental illness amplifies their realities and their perceptions. I'd imagine any paranoid component to a mental illness would cause these types of things to become quickly amplified.

I understand about your two and am not speaking about any and all mental illness. Just what I believe to be true in those with these specific and severe mental illness.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I think Adam was born with every card stacked against him, in terms of mental health. I also think his mom did every thing she could for so many years. Can you imagine having a kid who can't tolerate so many common things? Extreme sensory issues. That alone would have me walking on eggshells, and often just trying to keep calm and peace in the home. Coupled with violent fantasies. I honestly think I would have turned him over to a mental health residential facility. Obviously his mom shouldn't have had any guns in the house, but I think she worked really hard to help him try to overcome the horrible hand he was dealt.

My inlaws had to grant custody of their daughter to the state, in order to get her residential mental health help. She was schizophrenic as a teenager, and more than they could handle. She's now in her 40s, and has 3 children, and lives independently.

Is that even an option today? My understanding is that it's difficult to keep someone in a mental health facility long term, at least not without a demonstrated and ongoing threat of harm to himself or others, etc.

Many facilities of long ago were shut down.

 

[Floridaman999]

Is that even an option today? My understanding is that it's difficult to keep someone in a mental health facility long term. Many facilities of long ago were shut down.

Long term facilities are very, very difficult to find and most have a criminal justice component as well. There really aren't many long term options available these days due to all those closings. At least that is very much the case in my area.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Long term facilities are very, very difficult to find and most have a criminal justice component as well. There really aren't many long term options available these days due to all those closings. At least that is very much the case in my area.

Same. I mean, the thought that you can just place a really difficult child into a facility is sort of a nice and tidy one, but the reality today is that it's not really possible. Parents need to deal (or not) with the difficulties as best they can, on their own, and hopefully with some local support. I can't imagine how hard that is with a child such as this one.