Cruise and Theme Park Operational Updates due to Coronavirus

[TheMaxRebo]

2020 was laying in wait like
View attachment 551110

And after 2020 we get:
2020 won
And 2020 too

 

[andyman8]

I've been exceptionally busy within the last few weeks so forgive me for this backlog of things I wanted to touch upon and conversations I wanted to share. This post may break some sort of record in length so I apologize to anyone (like myself) who doesn't do well with small font clumped together on their screen. I'll try to bold the big "takeaways."

One of the most interesting things about the DME announcement was how many people within Disney/TDO/Walt Disney Travel seemed to be caught off guard by it. I talked to a number of folks who said they weren't aware of the change until the note went out to Disney Travel Agents (which happened minutes before the DPB post). For a logistical change this drastic, that's unusual. Even if it doesn't get shared with "outsiders," they usually communicate it internally a bit in advance. At this point, there still seems to be a lot of questions about the nuances of this announcement. For example, nobody seems to have received any sort of official clarification/guidance on the "2021 arrivals" language. Disney itself doesn't even seem to know if DME will have will be abandoned entirely on 1/1/22 or if will be phased out, only transporting Guests backs to the airport whose stays started in 2021. At least one person I talked to doesn't think that the current contract would allow that to happen but bottom line is that nobody seems to know. My guess is those details are still be worked out in this "divorce."

I know some have speculated that this was a Mears-led decision, but there's just no evidence at all to support that. Everyone seems to agree that the elimination of this service was purely a financial decision and that the upfront cost was likely just so high (especially right now with resorts barely filling rooms) that it made DME an easy target (much like MagicBands), and the only reason it's not happening sooner is that 1/1/22 was the next available exit option for Disney from their agreement with Mears. Supposedly, Mears did not even get that much of a heads-up as well, which sort of explains their curt, if not slightly annoyed, statement.

As of now, no one is aware of a paid alternative in the works. The consensus seems to be that because this had to do more with upfront costs (rather than eventual returns), a paid version still would be too high of an upfront cost and undercut the short-term "benefits" of this cut. Of course, depending on what happens with travel patterns, park capacity, and those all-important hotel bookings into the summer, that very possibly could change but that seems to be the thinking right now.

Carrying on that theme, some have speculated that this could be linked to the train project; nobody I've talked to even sees these two things as related in any way. While Brightline could one day be part of those "more options" for transportation Disney referenced in their DPB post, all they're talking about is rideshare for now. Remember that, officially, Disney's involvement with that project is just a land "donation." I believe Brightline will pay to build and operate the station and that Brightline is dictating the timeline (which, if it's like any of their other projects, will likely get bumped out several times). There's still too much unknown (and not enough within TWDC's control) for them to make any discernible plans or decisions involving that project right now. As much as it annoys some of us, DME was a cut, made to reduce expenditures and that's it. There doesn't seem to be some grand plan beyond just saving money in the face of the beating they took in 2020 (and will likely continue to take in 2021).

I'm also not sure where the idea of a "new" MDE being part of the Disney Genie came from but just want to emphasize that Disney Genie is an expansion of Disney's park planning toolkit. It has nothing to do with MDE (or room keys/MagicBands for that matter). Disney, at least internally, has been pretty clear that it's essentially an "official" version of TouringPlans.com that may include certain features (unsaid part: probably for a price) could help "optimize" your day in the park. It's also worth noting that -- because of all the weirdness with crowds, lines, posted wait times, and capacity -- some features of this app could be delayed for some time. The "replacement" for MagicBands is already here: KTTW cards. Certain digital functionalities from MBs will also come to MDE in the coming weeks, but I guess Disney IT is continuing to impress everyone with its ability to have difficulty with that even.

I also pressed a bit on the "benefits" of staying at a Disney Resort hotel without DME and EMH (and FP+). I think this might have been mentioned here, but the way to look at "Resort Guest Early Entry" (yes, that's the official magical name of this new perk) is not from the perspective of a Disney Resort Guest but rather from the perspective of an offsite Guest who now will never be able to avoid a park with EMH. Every day of an offsite Guest's vacation, they'll be 30 minutes behind Resort Guests. Especially with high-demand attractions like SDD or FoP, that means there's no way they can feasibly "rope drop" those rides to avoid waiting in a long line. In a way, it's more of penalty for offsite Guests than a perk for onsite Guests.

As I've said before, I'm not really in the loop with what goes on at DLR but I'll reiterate that DLR "sunsetting" the current AP program over there doesn't mean WDW APs are going away. It likely made more financial sense for DLR to refund everyone rather than extend passes for 14-18 months, and yes, it now also gives them the opportunity for them to address the "passholder problem" over there that we've talked about on here. Apparently, DLR has all of these grandfathered passes with all sorts stipulations, exemptions, and even pass types that aren't available to the general public anymore. Like I said, I don't know a lot about the DLR AP system but a friend of mine who has experience with WDW Ticket Services and GR explained to me that WDW could transition to a new AP system/membership by just doing what they did five years ago when they moved to the Silver/Gold/Plat/Plat+ system: let passes in the old system expire throughout the year and give the passholder the option to "renew" into the new system. APs not being sold now at WDW has more to do with capacity restrictions (and particularly early complaints from passholders about the difficulties getting a reservation). In fact, a few lucky people apparently did buy new APs on reopening day before they reinstated the pause the following day.

What does a new AP system look like? I have no idea, but WDW will be watching DLR closely. Nobody at WDW I've talked to seems to know what DLR is "planning" (can they really plan when they don't even have a park open?) but it was suggested to me that we might see AP branding fade into some sort of new branding like "Magic Access" or something like that. This is the branding HKDL uses for its AP program, though it functions exactly like our AP programs. Of course, it seems all but certain that DLR won't just change the branding, but whatever those changes are, WDW will be watching. And much like DLR did with MagicBands, WDW will see how it goes, assess the efficacy of such changes on their demographics, and move forward with whatever elements "work" for WDW. One thing I think we can all be almost certain of is that APs (or whatever we'll call them) will be jumping in price significantly on both coasts. It should go without saying that the goal for both parks is to "manage" AP attendance and really maximize per capita profits.

Overall, the feeling I'm getting right now seems quite distinct and not in a good way. It's not like anything I can remember. It seems like there's a lot of frustration in regional management and almost a "what's next" worry. It's almost like that "who's next" feeling that clouded over the layoffs has expanded to other areas. We, as fans, can get that way more often than we should at times, but it's highly unusual to see people broadly within the company feeling that way and even more unusual for them to be vocalizing it. It also seems abundantly clear that there are so many more cuts coming. Maybe you're not mad or upset about DME. Good for you. But I promise you that there's bound to be something they'll come for that matters a great deal to you. It certainly feels quite ominous.

 

[DGsAtBLT]

I've been exceptionally busy within the last few weeks so forgive me for this backlog of things I wanted to touch upon and conversations I wanted to share. This post may break some sort of record in length so I apologize to anyone (like myself) who doesn't do well with small font clumped together on their screen. I'll try to bold the big "takeaways."

One of the most interesting things about the DME announcement was how many people within Disney/TDO/Walt Disney Travel seemed to be caught off guard by it. I talked to a number of folks who said they weren't aware of the change until the note went out to Disney Travel Agents (which happened minutes before the DPB post). For a logistical change this drastic, that's unusual. Even if it doesn't get shared with "outsiders," they usually communicate it internally a bit in advance. At this point, there still seems to be a lot of questions about the nuances of this announcement. For example, nobody seems to have received any sort of official clarification/guidance on the "2021 arrivals" language. Disney itself doesn't even seem to know if DME will have will be abandoned entirely on 1/1/22 or if will be phased out, only transporting Guests backs to the airport whose stays started in 2021. At least one person I talked to doesn't think that the current contract would allow that to happen but bottom line is that nobody seems to know. My guess is those details are still be worked out in this "divorce."

I know some have speculated that this was a Mears-led decision, but there's just no evidence at all to support that. Everyone seems to agree that the elimination of this service was purely a financial decision and that the upfront cost was likely just so high (especially right now with resorts barely filling rooms) that it made DME an easy target (much like MagicBands), and the only reason it's not happening sooner is that 1/1/22 was the next available exit option for Disney from their agreement with Mears. Supposedly, Mears did not even get that much of a heads-up as well, which sort of explains their curt, if not slightly annoyed, statement.

As of now, no one is aware of a paid alternative in the works. The consensus seems to be that because this had to do more with upfront costs (rather than eventual returns), a paid version still would be too high of an upfront cost and undercut the short-term "benefits" of this cut. Of course, depending on what happens with travel patterns, park capacity, and those all-important hotel bookings into the summer, that very possibly could change but that seems to be the thinking right now.

Carrying on that theme, some have speculated that this could be linked to the train project; nobody I've talked to even sees these two things as related in any way. While Brightline could one day be part of those "more options" for transportation Disney referenced in their DPB post, all they're talking about is rideshare for now. Remember that, officially, Disney's involvement with that project is just a land "donation." I believe Brightline will pay to build and operate the station and that Brightline is dictating the timeline (which, if it's like any of their other projects, will likely get bumped out several times). There's still too much unknown (and not enough within TWDC's control) for them to make any discernible plans or decisions involving that project right now. As much as it annoys some of us, DME was a cut, made to reduce expenditures and that's it. There doesn't seem to be some grand plan beyond just saving money in the face of the beating they took in 2020 (and will likely continue to take in 2021).

I'm also not sure where the idea of a "new" MDE being part of the Disney Genie came from but just want to emphasize that Disney Genie is an expansion of Disney's park planning toolkit. It has nothing to do with MDE (or room keys/MagicBands for that matter). Disney, at least internally, has been pretty clear that it's essentially an "official" version of TouringPlans.com that may include certain features (unsaid part: probably for a price) could help "optimize" your day in the park. It's also worth noting that -- because of all the weirdness with crowds, lines, posted wait times, and capacity -- some features of this app could be delayed for some time. The "replacement" for MagicBands is already here: KTTW cards. Certain digital functionalities from MBs will also come to MDE in the coming weeks, but I guess Disney IT is continuing to impress everyone with its ability to have difficulty with that even.

I also pressed a bit on the "benefits" of staying at a Disney Resort hotel without DME and EMH (and FP+). I think this might have been mentioned here, but the way to look at "Resort Guest Early Entry" (yes, that's the official magical name of this new perk) is not from the perspective of a Disney Resort Guest but rather from the perspective of an offsite Guest who now will never be able to avoid a park with EMH. Every day of an offsite Guest's vacation, they'll be 30 minutes behind Resort Guests. Especially with high-demand attractions like SDD or FoP, that means there's no way they can feasibly "rope drop" those rides to avoid waiting in a long line. In a way, it's more of penalty for offsite Guests than a perk for onsite Guests.

As I've said before, I'm not really in the loop with what goes on at DLR but I'll reiterate that DLR "sunsetting" the current AP program over there doesn't mean WDW APs are going away. It likely made more financial sense for DLR to refund everyone rather than extend passes for 14-18 months, and yes, it now also gives them the opportunity for them to address the "passholder problem" over there that we've talked about on here. Apparently, DLR has all of these grandfathered passes with all sorts stipulations, exemptions, and even pass types that aren't available to the general public anymore. Like I said, I don't know a lot about the DLR AP system but a friend of mine who has experience with WDW Ticket Services and GR explained to me that WDW could transition to a new AP system/membership by just doing what they did five years ago when they moved to the Silver/Gold/Plat/Plat+ system: let passes in the old system expire throughout the year and give the passholder the option to "renew" into the new system. APs not being sold now at WDW has more to do with capacity restrictions (and particularly early complaints from passholders about the difficulties getting a reservation). In fact, a few lucky people apparently did buy new APs on reopening day before they reinstated the pause the following day.

What does a new AP system look like? I have no idea, but WDW will be watching DLR closely. Nobody at WDW I've talked to seems to know what DLR is "planning" (can they really plan when they don't even have a park open?) but it was suggested to me that we might see AP branding fade into some sort of new branding like "Magic Access" or something like that. This is the branding HKDL uses for its AP program, though it functions exactly like our AP programs. Of course, it seems all but certain that DLR won't just change the branding, but whatever those changes are, WDW will be watching. And much like DLR did with MagicBands, WDW will see how it goes, assess the efficacy of such changes on their demographics, and move forward with whatever elements "work" for WDW. One thing I think we can all be almost certain of is that APs (or whatever we'll call them) will be jumping in price significantly on both coasts. It should go without saying that the goal for both parks is to "manage" AP attendance and really maximize per capita profits.

Overall, the feeling I'm getting right now seems quite distinct and not in a good way. It's not like anything I can remember. It seems like there's a lot of frustration in regional management and almost a "what's next" worry. It's almost like that "who's next" feeling that clouded over the layoffs has expanded to other areas. We, as fans, can get that way more often than we should at times, but it's highly unusual to see people broadly within the company feeling that way and even more unusual for them to be vocalizing it. It also seems abundantly clear that there are so many more cuts coming. Maybe you're not mad or upset about DME. Good for you. But I promise you that there's bound to be something they'll come for that matters a great deal to you. It certainly feels quite ominous.

Dang. I need to get to know some cooler people so I can pick their brains with similar results.

As always, thanks for sharing your insights with us!

 

[rpb718]

"It also seems abundantly clear that there are so many more cuts coming."

I'm thinking this statement should have been bolded.

 

[hereforthechurros]

With all the capital and credit they do have, isn’t that to ride out times like this without doing too much brand damage and mortgaging the future? Granted the role of the CEO is to increase profits quarter over quarter but this isn’t normal times. To me it seems they could bounce back even faster by retaining whatever services they can then hit the ground running as 2021 allows. Feels like they’re just digging a hole that will take even longer to get out of by just hoping demand bursts and people want to pay full price for less of a product in a down economy. That’s a mighty gamble whereas Uni and the like are keeping things afloat and offering all they can to win whatever business they can right now.

When DME went it signaled that truly nothing is safe. I even had the thought today that with the resort competition in the area doing it better these days (looking ahead to Evermore) would they eventually consider bowing out of that game as well. Or change it to all DVC?

Sad that the instinct seem to be cut rather than innovate. That’s not what Disney is, and I don’t know how the parks survive long term in that mode.

edit: this is why Chapek was the CEO for this reality. The board needs someone cutthroat and not afraid to take the rap for massive cuts. Iger may have been to emotionally invested to be that guy this moment calls for.

 

[DGsAtBLT]

Depressing how fast things change. In the summer when opening was being celebrated some of us would discuss what we thought was going to be a permanent casualty in WDW, and we were all basically told we were being downers and it was now all good.

Now we’re here barely 6 months later all like well yeah Magical Express is history and entertainment? We don’t know her. We’ve got a new bathroom though and they’re probably going to bring back fireworks eventually!!

 

[Krandor]

With all the capital and credit they do have, isn’t that to ride out times like this without doing too much brand damage and mortgaging the future? Granted the role of the CEO is to increase profits quarter over quarter but this isn’t normal times. To me it seems they could bounce back even faster by retaining whatever services they can then hit the ground running as 2021 allows. Feels like they’re just digging a hole that will take even longer to get out of by just hoping demand bursts and people want to pay full price for less of a product in a down economy. That’s a mighty gamble whereas Uni and the like are keeping things afloat and offering all they can to win whatever business they can right now.

When DME went it signaled that truly nothing is safe. I even had the thought today that with the resort competition in the area doing it better these days (looking ahead to Evermore) would they eventually consider bowing out of that game as well. Or change it to all DVC?

Sad that the instinct seem to be cut rather than innovate. That’s not what Disney is, and I don’t know how the parks survive long term in that mode.

There is an issue from a media/PR perspective disney couldn't do what uni and others are doing in some areas. Like if they brought back fireworks now you'd have a bunch of pics of a crowded Main Street all over social media Though some of that is that Disney has such a smaller area that are optimum viewing areas for fireworks.

I hate all the cuts and hope a lot/most come back but there are some things that I don't think will be like ona small scale the small service they used to offer of having a CM take a picture with your own phone/camera. That was nice to do and not something they had to do. Makes sense to not offer it now but I think that is one of those things they just won't bring back.

 

[gottalovepluto]

With all the capital and credit they do have, isn’t that to ride out times like this without doing too much brand damage and mortgaging the future? Granted the role of the CEO is to increase profits quarter over quarter but this isn’t normal times. To me it seems they could bounce back even faster by retaining whatever services they can then hit the ground running as 2021 allows. Feels like they’re just digging a hole that will take even longer to get out of by just hoping demand bursts and people want to pay full price for less of a product in a down economy. That’s a mighty gamble whereas Uni and the like are keeping things afloat and offering all they can to win whatever business they can right now.

When DME went it signaled that truly nothing is safe. I even had the thought today that with the resort competition in the area doing it better these days (looking ahead to Evermore) would they eventually consider bowing out of that game as well. Or change it to all DVC?

Sad that the instinct seem to be cut rather than innovate. That’s not what Disney is, and I don’t know how the parks survive long term in that mode.

edit: this is why Chapek was the CEO for this reality. The board needs someone cutthroat and not afraid to take the rap for massive cuts. Iger may have been to emotionally invested to be that guy this moment calls for.

Did you see the executive compensation report for 2020? Pitiful. They need to get back to making real executive level money again and to do that they need to make real cuts somewhere. Parks win apparently. Bean Counters appear to be in full control of the division.

 

[mattpeto]

I've been exceptionally busy within the last few weeks so forgive me for this backlog of things I wanted to touch upon and conversations I wanted to share. This post may break some sort of record in length so I apologize to anyone (like myself) who doesn't do well with small font clumped together on their screen. I'll try to bold the big "takeaways."

One of the most interesting things about the DME announcement was how many people within Disney/TDO/Walt Disney Travel seemed to be caught off guard by it. I talked to a number of folks who said they weren't aware of the change until the note went out to Disney Travel Agents (which happened minutes before the DPB post). For a logistical change this drastic, that's unusual. Even if it doesn't get shared with "outsiders," they usually communicate it internally a bit in advance. At this point, there still seems to be a lot of questions about the nuances of this announcement. For example, nobody seems to have received any sort of official clarification/guidance on the "2021 arrivals" language. Disney itself doesn't even seem to know if DME will have will be abandoned entirely on 1/1/22 or if will be phased out, only transporting Guests backs to the airport whose stays started in 2021. At least one person I talked to doesn't think that the current contract would allow that to happen but bottom line is that nobody seems to know. My guess is those details are still be worked out in this "divorce."

I know some have speculated that this was a Mears-led decision, but there's just no evidence at all to support that. Everyone seems to agree that the elimination of this service was purely a financial decision and that the upfront cost was likely just so high (especially right now with resorts barely filling rooms) that it made DME an easy target (much like MagicBands), and the only reason it's not happening sooner is that 1/1/22 was the next available exit option for Disney from their agreement with Mears. Supposedly, Mears did not even get that much of a heads-up as well, which sort of explains their curt, if not slightly annoyed, statement.

As of now, no one is aware of a paid alternative in the works. The consensus seems to be that because this had to do more with upfront costs (rather than eventual returns), a paid version still would be too high of an upfront cost and undercut the short-term "benefits" of this cut. Of course, depending on what happens with travel patterns, park capacity, and those all-important hotel bookings into the summer, that very possibly could change but that seems to be the thinking right now.

Carrying on that theme, some have speculated that this could be linked to the train project; nobody I've talked to even sees these two things as related in any way. While Brightline could one day be part of those "more options" for transportation Disney referenced in their DPB post, all they're talking about is rideshare for now. Remember that, officially, Disney's involvement with that project is just a land "donation." I believe Brightline will pay to build and operate the station and that Brightline is dictating the timeline (which, if it's like any of their other projects, will likely get bumped out several times). There's still too much unknown (and not enough within TWDC's control) for them to make any discernible plans or decisions involving that project right now. As much as it annoys some of us, DME was a cut, made to reduce expenditures and that's it. There doesn't seem to be some grand plan beyond just saving money in the face of the beating they took in 2020 (and will likely continue to take in 2021).

I'm also not sure where the idea of a "new" MDE being part of the Disney Genie came from but just want to emphasize that Disney Genie is an expansion of Disney's park planning toolkit. It has nothing to do with MDE (or room keys/MagicBands for that matter). Disney, at least internally, has been pretty clear that it's essentially an "official" version of TouringPlans.com that may include certain features (unsaid part: probably for a price) could help "optimize" your day in the park. It's also worth noting that -- because of all the weirdness with crowds, lines, posted wait times, and capacity -- some features of this app could be delayed for some time. The "replacement" for MagicBands is already here: KTTW cards. Certain digital functionalities from MBs will also come to MDE in the coming weeks, but I guess Disney IT is continuing to impress everyone with its ability to have difficulty with that even.

I also pressed a bit on the "benefits" of staying at a Disney Resort hotel without DME and EMH (and FP+). I think this might have been mentioned here, but the way to look at "Resort Guest Early Entry" (yes, that's the official magical name of this new perk) is not from the perspective of a Disney Resort Guest but rather from the perspective of an offsite Guest who now will never be able to avoid a park with EMH. Every day of an offsite Guest's vacation, they'll be 30 minutes behind Resort Guests. Especially with high-demand attractions like SDD or FoP, that means there's no way they can feasibly "rope drop" those rides to avoid waiting in a long line. In a way, it's more of penalty for offsite Guests than a perk for onsite Guests.

As I've said before, I'm not really in the loop with what goes on at DLR but I'll reiterate that DLR "sunsetting" the current AP program over there doesn't mean WDW APs are going away. It likely made more financial sense for DLR to refund everyone rather than extend passes for 14-18 months, and yes, it now also gives them the opportunity for them to address the "passholder problem" over there that we've talked about on here. Apparently, DLR has all of these grandfathered passes with all sorts stipulations, exemptions, and even pass types that aren't available to the general public anymore. Like I said, I don't know a lot about the DLR AP system but a friend of mine who has experience with WDW Ticket Services and GR explained to me that WDW could transition to a new AP system/membership by just doing what they did five years ago when they moved to the Silver/Gold/Plat/Plat+ system: let passes in the old system expire throughout the year and give the passholder the option to "renew" into the new system. APs not being sold now at WDW has more to do with capacity restrictions (and particularly early complaints from passholders about the difficulties getting a reservation). In fact, a few lucky people apparently did buy new APs on reopening day before they reinstated the pause the following day.

What does a new AP system look like? I have no idea, but WDW will be watching DLR closely. Nobody at WDW I've talked to seems to know what DLR is "planning" (can they really plan when they don't even have a park open?) but it was suggested to me that we might see AP branding fade into some sort of new branding like "Magic Access" or something like that. This is the branding HKDL uses for its AP program, though it functions exactly like our AP programs. Of course, it seems all but certain that DLR won't just change the branding, but whatever those changes are, WDW will be watching. And much like DLR did with MagicBands, WDW will see how it goes, assess the efficacy of such changes on their demographics, and move forward with whatever elements "work" for WDW. One thing I think we can all be almost certain of is that APs (or whatever we'll call them) will be jumping in price significantly on both coasts. It should go without saying that the goal for both parks is to "manage" AP attendance and really maximize per capita profits.

Overall, the feeling I'm getting right now seems quite distinct and not in a good way. It's not like anything I can remember. It seems like there's a lot of frustration in regional management and almost a "what's next" worry. It's almost like that "who's next" feeling that clouded over the layoffs has expanded to other areas. We, as fans, can get that way more often than we should at times, but it's highly unusual to see people broadly within the company feeling that way and even more unusual for them to be vocalizing it. It also seems abundantly clear that there are so many more cuts coming. Maybe you're not mad or upset about DME. Good for you. But I promise you that there's bound to be something they'll come for that matters a great deal to you. It certainly feels quite ominous.

Thank you for this honest and insightful take.

I still hope and dream that all of this crap is just temporary. Maybe that “temporary” is just significantly longer than we all thought.

 

[gottalovepluto]

I've been exceptionally busy within the last few weeks so forgive me for this backlog of things I wanted to touch upon and conversations I wanted to share. This post may break some sort of record in length so I apologize to anyone (like myself) who doesn't do well with small font clumped together on their screen. I'll try to bold the big "takeaways."

One of the most interesting things about the DME announcement was how many people within Disney/TDO/Walt Disney Travel seemed to be caught off guard by it. I talked to a number of folks who said they weren't aware of the change until the note went out to Disney Travel Agents (which happened minutes before the DPB post). For a logistical change this drastic, that's unusual. Even if it doesn't get shared with "outsiders," they usually communicate it internally a bit in advance. At this point, there still seems to be a lot of questions about the nuances of this announcement. For example, nobody seems to have received any sort of official clarification/guidance on the "2021 arrivals" language. Disney itself doesn't even seem to know if DME will have will be abandoned entirely on 1/1/22 or if will be phased out, only transporting Guests backs to the airport whose stays started in 2021. At least one person I talked to doesn't think that the current contract would allow that to happen but bottom line is that nobody seems to know. My guess is those details are still be worked out in this "divorce."

I know some have speculated that this was a Mears-led decision, but there's just no evidence at all to support that. Everyone seems to agree that the elimination of this service was purely a financial decision and that the upfront cost was likely just so high (especially right now with resorts barely filling rooms) that it made DME an easy target (much like MagicBands), and the only reason it's not happening sooner is that 1/1/22 was the next available exit option for Disney from their agreement with Mears. Supposedly, Mears did not even get that much of a heads-up as well, which sort of explains their curt, if not slightly annoyed, statement.

As of now, no one is aware of a paid alternative in the works. The consensus seems to be that because this had to do more with upfront costs (rather than eventual returns), a paid version still would be too high of an upfront cost and undercut the short-term "benefits" of this cut. Of course, depending on what happens with travel patterns, park capacity, and those all-important hotel bookings into the summer, that very possibly could change but that seems to be the thinking right now.

Carrying on that theme, some have speculated that this could be linked to the train project; nobody I've talked to even sees these two things as related in any way. While Brightline could one day be part of those "more options" for transportation Disney referenced in their DPB post, all they're talking about is rideshare for now. Remember that, officially, Disney's involvement with that project is just a land "donation." I believe Brightline will pay to build and operate the station and that Brightline is dictating the timeline (which, if it's like any of their other projects, will likely get bumped out several times). There's still too much unknown (and not enough within TWDC's control) for them to make any discernible plans or decisions involving that project right now. As much as it annoys some of us, DME was a cut, made to reduce expenditures and that's it. There doesn't seem to be some grand plan beyond just saving money in the face of the beating they took in 2020 (and will likely continue to take in 2021).

I'm also not sure where the idea of a "new" MDE being part of the Disney Genie came from but just want to emphasize that Disney Genie is an expansion of Disney's park planning toolkit. It has nothing to do with MDE (or room keys/MagicBands for that matter). Disney, at least internally, has been pretty clear that it's essentially an "official" version of TouringPlans.com that may include certain features (unsaid part: probably for a price) could help "optimize" your day in the park. It's also worth noting that -- because of all the weirdness with crowds, lines, posted wait times, and capacity -- some features of this app could be delayed for some time. The "replacement" for MagicBands is already here: KTTW cards. Certain digital functionalities from MBs will also come to MDE in the coming weeks, but I guess Disney IT is continuing to impress everyone with its ability to have difficulty with that even.

I also pressed a bit on the "benefits" of staying at a Disney Resort hotel without DME and EMH (and FP+). I think this might have been mentioned here, but the way to look at "Resort Guest Early Entry" (yes, that's the official magical name of this new perk) is not from the perspective of a Disney Resort Guest but rather from the perspective of an offsite Guest who now will never be able to avoid a park with EMH. Every day of an offsite Guest's vacation, they'll be 30 minutes behind Resort Guests. Especially with high-demand attractions like SDD or FoP, that means there's no way they can feasibly "rope drop" those rides to avoid waiting in a long line. In a way, it's more of penalty for offsite Guests than a perk for onsite Guests.

As I've said before, I'm not really in the loop with what goes on at DLR but I'll reiterate that DLR "sunsetting" the current AP program over there doesn't mean WDW APs are going away. It likely made more financial sense for DLR to refund everyone rather than extend passes for 14-18 months, and yes, it now also gives them the opportunity for them to address the "passholder problem" over there that we've talked about on here. Apparently, DLR has all of these grandfathered passes with all sorts stipulations, exemptions, and even pass types that aren't available to the general public anymore. Like I said, I don't know a lot about the DLR AP system but a friend of mine who has experience with WDW Ticket Services and GR explained to me that WDW could transition to a new AP system/membership by just doing what they did five years ago when they moved to the Silver/Gold/Plat/Plat+ system: let passes in the old system expire throughout the year and give the passholder the option to "renew" into the new system. APs not being sold now at WDW has more to do with capacity restrictions (and particularly early complaints from passholders about the difficulties getting a reservation). In fact, a few lucky people apparently did buy new APs on reopening day before they reinstated the pause the following day.

What does a new AP system look like? I have no idea, but WDW will be watching DLR closely. Nobody at WDW I've talked to seems to know what DLR is "planning" (can they really plan when they don't even have a park open?) but it was suggested to me that we might see AP branding fade into some sort of new branding like "Magic Access" or something like that. This is the branding HKDL uses for its AP program, though it functions exactly like our AP programs. Of course, it seems all but certain that DLR won't just change the branding, but whatever those changes are, WDW will be watching. And much like DLR did with MagicBands, WDW will see how it goes, assess the efficacy of such changes on their demographics, and move forward with whatever elements "work" for WDW. One thing I think we can all be almost certain of is that APs (or whatever we'll call them) will be jumping in price significantly on both coasts. It should go without saying that the goal for both parks is to "manage" AP attendance and really maximize per capita profits.

Overall, the feeling I'm getting right now seems quite distinct and not in a good way. It's not like anything I can remember. It seems like there's a lot of frustration in regional management and almost a "what's next" worry. It's almost like that "who's next" feeling that clouded over the layoffs has expanded to other areas. We, as fans, can get that way more often than we should at times, but it's highly unusual to see people broadly within the company feeling that way and even more unusual for them to be vocalizing it. It also seems abundantly clear that there are so many more cuts coming. Maybe you're not mad or upset about DME. Good for you. But I promise you that there's bound to be something they'll come for that matters a great deal to you. It certainly feels quite ominous.

Aren’t you full of cheer for us?

Geez. What more damage could they do if this is just the beginning... the mind boggles... but I’m secretly scared of giving them any ideas if I voice that stuff out loud

I’m gonna make the most of my AP this year! And, God willing, after this year my money can go to adventures abroad in 2022/2023. Return when Disney World exec’s feel flush again and are throwing money at various offerings.

 

[Krandor]

Aren’t you full of cheer for us?

Geez. What more damage could they do if this is just the beginning... the mind boggles... but I’m secretly scared of giving them any ideas if I voice that stuff out loud

I’m gonna make the most of my AP this year! And, God willing, after this year my money can go to adventures abroad in 2022/2023. Return when Disney World exec’s feel flush again and are throwing money at various offerings.

I just hope rundisney isn't on the copping block. Though I think in general they bring in more money then they cost they are mostly looked at as a place to bring more people to the parks and if like Anaheim they don't think they need that they could be on the list.

I just hope that post-covid they want to keep it around to drive more people to the parks but I don't think we can assume anything at this point and that sucks.

 

[Mit88]

I can’t imagine RunDisney not coming back. It’s part of the ROI that they love. And it’s a huge draw. It doesn’t stop them from banking in on the virtual runs either.

 

[Krandor]

I can’t imagine RunDisney not coming back. It’s part of the ROI that they love. And it’s a huge draw. It doesn’t stop them from banking in on the virtual runs either.

These days it is hard not to be concerned About anything. I think rundisney moving to virtual only is possible. Likely? Probably not but i don't think we can assume anything these days.

My optimistic side is that DLR restarts rundisney due to wanting more people to come when they can reopen.
My pessimistic side is rundisney goes away
The most realistic is in the middle. WDW comes back (with some changes to themes and courses) and DLR doesn't.

 

[rteetz]

I can’t imagine RunDisney not coming back. It’s part of the ROI that they love. And it’s a huge draw. It doesn’t stop them from banking in on the virtual runs either.

runDisney itself doesn’t make them a whole lot of money. They make money off the bookings from it. Race registration funds go into putting on the event. Big races like runDisney are not cheap.

 

[Mit88]

runDisney itself doesn’t make them a whole lot of money. They make money off the bookings from it. Race registration funds go into putting on the event. Big races like runDisney are not cheap.

But with the big races being at a notoriously slow time for Disney, don’t the bookings make that price for the event worth it?

 

[Krandor]

But with the big races being at a notoriously slow time for Disney, don’t the bookings make that price for the event worth it?

That is exactly why they have them... bring in people on slow weekends.

 

[rteetz]

But with the big races being at a notoriously slow time for Disney, don’t the bookings make that price for the event worth it?

That is exactly why they have them... bring in people on slow weekends.

Right, which is what I was saying. I just wanted to point out the race themselves don't make money but the people that come to WDW for them do.

 

[mitsukoshi samurai]

I've been exceptionally busy within the last few weeks so forgive me for this backlog of things I wanted to touch upon and conversations I wanted to share. This post may break some sort of record in length so I apologize to anyone (like myself) who doesn't do well with small font clumped together on their screen. I'll try to bold the big "takeaways."

One of the most interesting things about the DME announcement was how many people within Disney/TDO/Walt Disney Travel seemed to be caught off guard by it. I talked to a number of folks who said they weren't aware of the change until the note went out to Disney Travel Agents (which happened minutes before the DPB post). For a logistical change this drastic, that's unusual. Even if it doesn't get shared with "outsiders," they usually communicate it internally a bit in advance. At this point, there still seems to be a lot of questions about the nuances of this announcement. For example, nobody seems to have received any sort of official clarification/guidance on the "2021 arrivals" language. Disney itself doesn't even seem to know if DME will have will be abandoned entirely on 1/1/22 or if will be phased out, only transporting Guests backs to the airport whose stays started in 2021. At least one person I talked to doesn't think that the current contract would allow that to happen but bottom line is that nobody seems to know. My guess is those details are still be worked out in this "divorce."

I know some have speculated that this was a Mears-led decision, but there's just no evidence at all to support that. Everyone seems to agree that the elimination of this service was purely a financial decision and that the upfront cost was likely just so high (especially right now with resorts barely filling rooms) that it made DME an easy target (much like MagicBands), and the only reason it's not happening sooner is that 1/1/22 was the next available exit option for Disney from their agreement with Mears. Supposedly, Mears did not even get that much of a heads-up as well, which sort of explains their curt, if not slightly annoyed, statement.

As of now, no one is aware of a paid alternative in the works. The consensus seems to be that because this had to do more with upfront costs (rather than eventual returns), a paid version still would be too high of an upfront cost and undercut the short-term "benefits" of this cut. Of course, depending on what happens with travel patterns, park capacity, and those all-important hotel bookings into the summer, that very possibly could change but that seems to be the thinking right now.

Carrying on that theme, some have speculated that this could be linked to the train project; nobody I've talked to even sees these two things as related in any way. While Brightline could one day be part of those "more options" for transportation Disney referenced in their DPB post, all they're talking about is rideshare for now. Remember that, officially, Disney's involvement with that project is just a land "donation." I believe Brightline will pay to build and operate the station and that Brightline is dictating the timeline (which, if it's like any of their other projects, will likely get bumped out several times). There's still too much unknown (and not enough within TWDC's control) for them to make any discernible plans or decisions involving that project right now. As much as it annoys some of us, DME was a cut, made to reduce expenditures and that's it. There doesn't seem to be some grand plan beyond just saving money in the face of the beating they took in 2020 (and will likely continue to take in 2021).

I'm also not sure where the idea of a "new" MDE being part of the Disney Genie came from but just want to emphasize that Disney Genie is an expansion of Disney's park planning toolkit. It has nothing to do with MDE (or room keys/MagicBands for that matter). Disney, at least internally, has been pretty clear that it's essentially an "official" version of TouringPlans.com that may include certain features (unsaid part: probably for a price) could help "optimize" your day in the park. It's also worth noting that -- because of all the weirdness with crowds, lines, posted wait times, and capacity -- some features of this app could be delayed for some time. The "replacement" for MagicBands is already here: KTTW cards. Certain digital functionalities from MBs will also come to MDE in the coming weeks, but I guess Disney IT is continuing to impress everyone with its ability to have difficulty with that even.

I also pressed a bit on the "benefits" of staying at a Disney Resort hotel without DME and EMH (and FP+). I think this might have been mentioned here, but the way to look at "Resort Guest Early Entry" (yes, that's the official magical name of this new perk) is not from the perspective of a Disney Resort Guest but rather from the perspective of an offsite Guest who now will never be able to avoid a park with EMH. Every day of an offsite Guest's vacation, they'll be 30 minutes behind Resort Guests. Especially with high-demand attractions like SDD or FoP, that means there's no way they can feasibly "rope drop" those rides to avoid waiting in a long line. In a way, it's more of penalty for offsite Guests than a perk for onsite Guests.

As I've said before, I'm not really in the loop with what goes on at DLR but I'll reiterate that DLR "sunsetting" the current AP program over there doesn't mean WDW APs are going away. It likely made more financial sense for DLR to refund everyone rather than extend passes for 14-18 months, and yes, it now also gives them the opportunity for them to address the "passholder problem" over there that we've talked about on here. Apparently, DLR has all of these grandfathered passes with all sorts stipulations, exemptions, and even pass types that aren't available to the general public anymore. Like I said, I don't know a lot about the DLR AP system but a friend of mine who has experience with WDW Ticket Services and GR explained to me that WDW could transition to a new AP system/membership by just doing what they did five years ago when they moved to the Silver/Gold/Plat/Plat+ system: let passes in the old system expire throughout the year and give the passholder the option to "renew" into the new system. APs not being sold now at WDW has more to do with capacity restrictions (and particularly early complaints from passholders about the difficulties getting a reservation). In fact, a few lucky people apparently did buy new APs on reopening day before they reinstated the pause the following day.

What does a new AP system look like? I have no idea, but WDW will be watching DLR closely. Nobody at WDW I've talked to seems to know what DLR is "planning" (can they really plan when they don't even have a park open?) but it was suggested to me that we might see AP branding fade into some sort of new branding like "Magic Access" or something like that. This is the branding HKDL uses for its AP program, though it functions exactly like our AP programs. Of course, it seems all but certain that DLR won't just change the branding, but whatever those changes are, WDW will be watching. And much like DLR did with MagicBands, WDW will see how it goes, assess the efficacy of such changes on their demographics, and move forward with whatever elements "work" for WDW. One thing I think we can all be almost certain of is that APs (or whatever we'll call them) will be jumping in price significantly on both coasts. It should go without saying that the goal for both parks is to "manage" AP attendance and really maximize per capita profits.

Overall, the feeling I'm getting right now seems quite distinct and not in a good way. It's not like anything I can remember. It seems like there's a lot of frustration in regional management and almost a "what's next" worry. It's almost like that "who's next" feeling that clouded over the layoffs has expanded to other areas. We, as fans, can get that way more often than we should at times, but it's highly unusual to see people broadly within the company feeling that way and even more unusual for them to be vocalizing it. It also seems abundantly clear that there are so many more cuts coming. Maybe you're not mad or upset about DME. Good for you. But I promise you that there's bound to be something they'll come for that matters a great deal to you. It certainly feels quite ominous.

Which is why dme stopped the baggage delivery

 

[Krandor]

Right, which is what I was saying. I just wanted to point out the race themselves don't make money but the people that come to WDW for them do.

Agreed and is one reason their marathon weekend is the week after New Years. A very slow week normally.

I don't have kids and do marathon weekend most years and I struggle from a work standpoint to do it. Come back from Christmas and New Years and now everybody is ready to get back to starting projects.... oh I'm going on vacation for a week in two days.

It's a tough time to take off on vacation... which is why they do it that weekend.

 

[TikiTikiFan]

There is an issue from a media/PR perspective disney couldn't do what uni and others are doing in some areas. Like if they brought back fireworks now you'd have a bunch of pics of a crowded Main Street all over social media Though some of that is that Disney has such a smaller area that are optimum viewing areas for fireworks.

I think there’s definitely some truth to this. Universal seems to slide under the radar much easier. I was surprised to read on their website you can remove masks on water rides or for character photos.. simply just because I’ve never even heard anyone mention that! Now if that were Disney I could see the headlines now.. “Maskless riders on Splash Mountain!” or something.

Off topic but.. is it true they let you take off masks for outdoor character photos? I mean it must be if it’s on the website but I don’t remember seeing it mentioned often on here. It’d be great to have a mask free family picture.