5th Park inevitable ?

[Dfan79]

I think they want to clean the messes they made at Hollywood and Epcot before building a new one. HS will still have its holes and lack of cohesion after Star Wars. Indy, Belle and Ariel's shows should have been gotten rid of at least a decade ago. If not gotten rid of then at least redone with new costumes, wardrobes and other miscellaneous things.

 

[rstamm]

Those 3 shows are the highlight of the park for me

 

[CERS]

Well, in my oppinion, they're not going to open up a 5th park in Orlando anytime soon. They are already in a full multi-million dollar investment to refresh the rest in face of the 50th anniversary celebration, and I don't think they'll continue at that rate after everything is done.

And after this big investment is over, they're moving to a multi-million investment in Disneyland Paris, now owned by Disney Parks and Resorts; they're building Frozen land, Marvel land and mini-Galaxy's Edge, making it the only park outside the USA that is fully owned by Disney; therefore they'll probably focus a lot to make it shine (as the announced multi-million expansion suggests).

I don't see it happening anytime soon. But they could always surprise us, that's for sure.

 

[sachilles]

I had another thought about this today, that I don't expect everyone to agree with.

I think an argument can be made that a 5th gate already exists, but not in a traditional sense. Disney springs is on the home stretch of it's rebirth. One could argue that because it's free, that it can't be a "gate". However, it accomplishes everything disney needs in a gate. It has retail, and food, it gobbles up people so they aren't spending time at universal or elsewhere. Best of all it does it without the burden of disney staffing it(ok much reduced amount of staff per area). It's one big gift shop. It has attractions. While Disney presumably fronted the money to develop it, it has renters deferring costs that might have been pushed to the consumer via the "gate". I think we will see the spring concept develop further.

 

[YesterDark]

It's not a theme park, so it's not a gate. Doesn't mean it's not a major revenue center though.

 

[jknezek]

Well, in my oppinion, they're not going to open up a 5th park in Orlando anytime soon. They are already in a full multi-million dollar investment to refresh the rest in face of the 50th anniversary celebration, and I don't think they'll continue at that rate after everything is done.

And after this big investment is over, they're moving to a multi-million investment in Disneyland Paris, now owned by Disney Parks and Resorts; they're building Frozen land, Marvel land and mini-Galaxy's Edge, making it the only park outside the USA that is fully owned by Disney; therefore they'll probably focus a lot to make it shine (as the announced multi-million expansion suggests).

I don't see it happening anytime soon. But they could always surprise us, that's for sure.

I would be surprised if investments in DLP would matter that much to investment in WDW or DL. They have separate budgets and the pots are going to be different. I know there was a lot of speculation that the cost of Shanghai affected investment in WDW, and I'm not saying it didn't in some way, but I really think the bigger issue was that the investment in WDW was spent on FP and FP+ instead of new rides and attractions. So it looked like a dearth of investment from 2006 until 2014 (roughly), but what really was going on was more they spent a billion dollars on back of house instead of front of house investment.

Disney is perfectly capable of investing in DLP and a fifth park in Orlando if they so chose, though I am firmly in the camp that they won't even begin to think seriously about that for at least another decade or two. I think the impetus right now is much more on fixing and infilling EPCOT, DHS and AK in that order and that is at least a 10 year timeline.

Though for those on the other side of this issue, I was told by someone that I trust to have better than bus driver rumors that my timeline is too long and that a fifth gate was talked about more as a 10 year window than a 20. That would mean real movement in 5 years or so, or not long after the 50th wraps up. There have been various plans over the years, any of which could be revisited or new plans drawn up, as there are ALWAYS plans being tossed around among the various groups who make these decisions.

And anything in a 10 or 20 year plan is subject to review. Another park at Universal that is radically different and starts eating Disney's lunch could change things in a hurry. Never forget that The Living Seas was built specifically to try and counter Sea World. DHS was specifically built to counter Universal. AK, all things considered, was probably a mistake from the corporate point of view. It is exceptionally expensive to maintain living creatures, it didn't really need to be built to counter anything, and it has never really attracted the guests that were hoped for. As much as I love it, AK hasn't really panned out for a variety of reasons though I know many people who love it as much as I do.

 

[ChrisFL]

I had another thought about this today, that I don't expect everyone to agree with.

I think an argument can be made that a 5th gate already exists, but not in a traditional sense. Disney springs is on the home stretch of it's rebirth. One could argue that because it's free, that it can't be a "gate". However, it accomplishes everything disney needs in a gate. It has retail, and food, it gobbles up people so they aren't spending time at universal or elsewhere. Best of all it does it without the burden of disney staffing it(ok much reduced amount of staff per area). It's one big gift shop. It has attractions. While Disney presumably fronted the money to develop it, it has renters deferring costs that might have been pushed to the consumer via the "gate". I think we will see the spring concept develop further.

I thought back when DisneyQuest opened that it could almost be considered a "gate" to itself, however there were many flaws with it. If they expanded upon it properly I think they could have eventually gotten there.

 

[Dfan79]

Those 3 shows are the highlight of the park for me

Yeah, but you get sick of the same thing after 20-30 yrs. You got to at least kill off a character or something. Like Flounder on the Little Mermaid. He's not that important, just a throw in non human friend. Maybe Ursula could get him a time or two throughout the week.

 

[Tiki Birdland]

but you get sick of the same thing after 20-30 yrs

We go ~every 2 years or so... Can't say we're sick of those shows, frankly.

Indy, BatB, Nemo, and Little Mermaid are must-see shows for our family.

 

[intertile]

As exciting as a 5th gate may sound, I would prefer they didn't build one yet.
DHS still needs a redo of Launch Bay. Possible Little Mermaid update. The indy show, star tours, and muppet theater are also rumored for a new land. There is also another expansion pad behind RnR that has yet to be touched, as well as backstage areas that used to be used by the studio that no longer works there.
Animal Kingdom has a redo of Dinosaur land, an additional ride at avatar, and a possible expansion using the rafiki area
Epcot has The seas, Imagination, and WOL pavilions that need updating. Along with inovations east and west, and at least 2 new countries to be built and a couple of more attractions in World Showcase.
MK needs a replacement for stich, upgrade to grand prix(electic cars at least), refurb of space mountain(track is painful to the derrier)

If Disney keeps plugging away at the current parks at a rate close to what they have been capacity will increase across the board with more offerings to swallow the crowds. A fifth gate will hurt us all more than help. It will open much like AK or DHS did, incomplete. It will add another area that will need investment thus taking funds away from the current parks. It will add another park ticket you must purchase to see limited offerings, instead of updating/expanding the existing ones.

NOTE: I listed areas and attractions logical to upgrades considering the current expansions, closings, and average wait times.(Also rumored as expansion slots from multiple insiders)

 

[ChrisFL]

Realistically, I don't see a 5th gate happening anytime soon. The reason is that any economic downturn or issue where tourism numbers drop would leave WDW in a bad position with a 5th gate. The logistics of building the park, staffing the park, transport to and from all of the resorts, etc. would be another huge undertaking. Upgrading their existing parks is a much more sensible option.

 

[intertile]

Realistically, I don't see a 5th gate happening anytime soon. The reason is that any economic downturn or issue where tourism numbers drop would leave WDW in a bad position with a 5th gate. The logistics of building the park, staffing the park, transport to and from all of the resorts, etc. would be another huge undertaking. Upgrading their existing parks is a much more sensible option.

More sensible for them and us

 

[Dfan79]

We go ~every 2 years or so... Can't say we're sick of those shows, frankly.

Indy, BatB, Nemo, and Little Mermaid are must-see shows for our family.

You seriously don't get sick of the whole giant bowling ball bit? It was great the first 10 times I've seen it, but now I can't even watch it. Unless I'm tired and need to sit down and rest my dogs.

Just like with the Tomorrowland Speedway it is a waste of prime real estate.

 

[CERS]

I would be surprised if investments in DLP would matter that much to investment in WDW or DL. They have separate budgets and the pots are going to be different. I know there was a lot of speculation that the cost of Shanghai affected investment in WDW, and I'm not saying it didn't in some way, but I really think the bigger issue was that the investment in WDW was spent on FP and FP+ instead of new rides and attractions. So it looked like a dearth of investment from 2006 until 2014 (roughly), but what really was going on was more they spent a billion dollars on back of house instead of front of house investment.

Disney is perfectly capable of investing in DLP and a fifth park in Orlando if they so chose, though I am firmly in the camp that they won't even begin to think seriously about that for at least another decade or two. I think the impetus right now is much more on fixing and infilling EPCOT, DHS and AK in that order and that is at least a 10 year timeline.

Though for those on the other side of this issue, I was told by someone that I trust to have better than bus driver rumors that my timeline is too long and that a fifth gate was talked about more as a 10 year window than a 20. That would mean real movement in 5 years or so, or not long after the 50th wraps up. There have been various plans over the years, any of which could be revisited or new plans drawn up, as there are ALWAYS plans being tossed around among the various groups who make these decisions.

And anything in a 10 or 20 year plan is subject to review. Another park at Universal that is radically different and starts eating Disney's lunch could change things in a hurry. Never forget that The Living Seas was built specifically to try and counter Sea World. DHS was specifically built to counter Universal. AK, all things considered, was probably a mistake from the corporate point of view. It is exceptionally expensive to maintain living creatures, it didn't really need to be built to counter anything, and it has never really attracted the guests that were hoped for. As much as I love it, AK hasn't really panned out for a variety of reasons though I know many people who love it as much as I do.

Well, now I would agree with you on DLP if we were talking about any Disney park except Disneyland Paris. Disneyland Paris is the only Disney park to be truly at the risk of closure in its time and become the first big "fail" in terms of parks for the Disney family. They bought it but by doing so, they forfeited a multi-million dollar debt that the previous company had with Disney Parks and Resorts. Europe is not so "park oriented" as other continents.

It is probably one of the Disney parks with less revenue because the ticket prices are less expensive (tickets for single day go from €49 to €79; probably the reason why they've started charging for special non-time-fixed FPs). Therefore, the money to invest in expansions on DLP has to come from the rest of the Disney Parks budgets probably, as the earnings from this park probably aren't all that great right now. I would really believe it is taking quite an impact; if not, I believe they would've started it ASAP and not wait until 2021 to start the expansion, right when the big investment in Orlando comes to an end.

But, I do believe that, if Universal plays their cards with a new "original" theme park, they'll push Disney to counter act urgently (hello Pandora?, hello Galaxy's Edge?), but in any case I wouldn't see it at least in the next 10 years.

 

[Tiki Birdland]

You seriously don't get sick of the whole giant bowling ball bit?

Actually, no, we don't. We've likely seen the show ~7-8 times now. I would love to see it again tomorrow if I could. I got picked for the crowd scene once. I really enjoyed the whole thing. My wife LOVES BatB show at DS better than the live action movie. And, the Nemo show is a "can't miss" for her too when we go to AK.

These shows -- including the Trolly at MK -- are what separate Disney from Uni and other parks. We'd like to see more of them!

 

[jade1]

You seriously don't get sick of the whole giant bowling ball bit? It was great the first 10 times I've seen it, but now I can't even watch it. .

 

[dcibrando]

if they expand EPCOT, DHS, and AK with more... wait for it... attractions (ex. rides!) it would spread out the crowds more

MK will always been the most popular, but look at what is has to offer attraction wise vs the other parks right now

I would like a 5th park to spread out crowds more eventually...but lets ramp up the other 3 parks to have a comparable number of attractions with MK

 

[Phicinfan]

if they expand EPCOT, DHS, and AK with more... wait for it... attractions (ex. rides!) it would spread out the crowds more

MK will always been the most popular, but look at what is has to offer attraction wise vs the other parks right now

I would like a 5th park to spread out crowds more eventually...but lets ramp up the other 3 parks to have a comparable number of attractions with MK

First I agree that all three need more attractions.
But I think when SW:GE opens, you will get a real read of can the other parks really pull from MK. Its obvious that while very popular, Avatar has not really dented MK. If SW:GE doesn't, then more expansion IN MK may be needed.

Or

What if the 5th gate was............ MK2.0? Would that work? Obviously not a direct clone, but maybe alot of copying, with a twist? Someone somewhere had a great idea of a villains world. What if we got a MK2.0 Villains as the next gate?

 

[CERS]

if they expand EPCOT, DHS, and AK with more... wait for it... attractions (ex. rides!) it would spread out the crowds more

MK will always been the most popular, but look at what is has to offer attraction wise vs the other parks right now

I would like a 5th park to spread out crowds more eventually...but lets ramp up the other 3 parks to have a comparable number of attractions with MK

Crowds will dissipate a little in MK with Galaxys Edge, but will come once again to the top once the Tron coaster opens. Heh. So yeah, I assume MK will keep on the top spot for many many years to come.

 

[YesterDark]

I'm willing to bet that MK's crowds will stay the same during SWGE, if not increase. I think SWGE is going to pull people who would typically not have been there. I bet that you'll have people that go down just for Star Wars and end up going to MK as a secondary destination. SWGE, if it gets great reviews, is just going to get more people to come.