Kids Club Age Change

[vspenn]

apologies if this has been covered already, but my view on this is it's a sly "cheapening" and cost-cutting from Disney. Edge is smaller vs Club/Lab, there's less programming and less activities with supplies and some of those are activities we can already do with our kids ourselves (playing on the sports deck?). I was really appreciative of Club/Lab for the space, the programming, the supplies they used for the kids. Now they are cutting out 2 years to a "cheaper" experience. Not cool. I have a 9yo and we need to decide if we force a cruise before she turns 10. It wasn't in the plan, but I assumed I had two more years to plan one more cruise before she would be hanging with us as I doubt she would spend nearly as much time at the Edge as she did at the Club/Lab. And if that's the case, we might as well go to cheaper lines as she's well past caring much about character meet and greets. That makes me sad.

 

[Bibbidi_Boo]

apologies if this has been covered already, but my view on this is it's a sly "cheapening" and cost-cutting from Disney. Edge is smaller vs Club/Lab, there's less programming and less activities with supplies and some of those are activities we can already do with our kids ourselves (playing on the sports deck?). I was really appreciative of Club/Lab for the space, the programming, the supplies they used for the kids. Now they are cutting out 2 years to a "cheaper" experience. Not cool. I have a 9yo and we need to decide if we force a cruise before she turns 10. It wasn't in the plan, but I assumed I had two more years to plan one more cruise before she would be hanging with us as I doubt she would spend nearly as much time at the Edge as she did at the Club/Lab. And if that's the case, we might as well go to cheaper lines as she's well past caring much about character meet and greets. That makes me sad.

You have till she turns 11. So you have some time. But I can see your view too, you are kind of right. My oldest turns 11 in a couple weeks, wish I knew our sept cruise was her last in the lab. We are looking into another royal carribean, while we weren't impressed with the kids clubs there was just so much more for the kids to do on the ship.

 

[csgrkw]

I haven't had a chance to fully review all of the comments here regarding this change, so my apologies for any repeats of previous comments...and full disclaimer that the youngest of my 4 children is 17 and he'll be enjoying his last Disney Cruise as a minor in a couple of weeks, so we'll likely not be impacted.

But we began cruising with Disney quite frankly because of the emphasis on kids and family, where there's a place for children of all ages, which also provides for adult enjoyment & time on board. With that said, I'm in agreement with many others who have posted that the changes may be too impactful and the notification timing horrible.

Here are my personal thoughts...

1. The old tiers, I believe, were ages 3-12 for Oceaneer Club/Lab, 11-14 for Edge and 14-17 for Vibe. This structure provided parents/guardians with the flexibility of determining the best onboard environment for their child(ren). More important than age in my opinion are the impacts of maturity, personality, introversion/extroversion, etc. which are only some of the factors adults consider before making any decision about their kids, on or off a Disney ship. Two of my children were mature for their age and may have been fine going to Edge at 11 instead of waiting until they were 13, but the other two of my children would have struggled being thrust into an environment with less structure, less direction and with older kids who talk about topics designed for kids their age. This structure gave children 2 years of crossover for Club/Edge and 1 year of crossover for Edge/Vibe.
2. The new age categories of 3-10 for Oceaneer Club, 11-14 for Edge and 14-17 for Vibe leaves the flexibility for Edge/Vibe unchanged, but that flexibility isn't nearly as important as the one between Club/Edge. In addition to splitting up kids in more cases when close in age, it also forces the 11/12 year olds to move up to Edge when they may not be physically, mentally or emotionally prepared to do so...and there are a great many pressures that can be placed on 11/12 year olds by some of the older tweens/teens. Flexilibity for parents/guardians is crucial to both the enjoyment for the child(ren) as well as the enjoyment and peace of mind for the parents/guardians.
3. Disney did not provide enough notice for this change, which they HAD to have known would be a contentious topic. Since refunds are generally available up to 120 days, that should've been the minimum notification required, although a 6 month notification would have been more applicable to make sure all cruisers had time to consider their options. On-board credits or future cruise discounts, while I've not heard of being offered for this change, might be a favored solution in Disney's eyes, but it doesn't resolve the underlying issue that an adult may not be comfortable placing their child(ren) in an uncomfortable or inappropriate environment.

I hope that Disney truly listens to the feedback that they are surely receiving at this point. Whether they do anything about it is ultimately up to Disney...but just like the continuous increase in pricing on cruises and parks, which makes it unaffordable for some families, I suspect that there will always be those willing to pay the prices and, in this case, fill the ship regardless of these changes. What I will say however, is that other cruise lines have been making a HARD push to emphasize that they are as kid-friendly as Disney...so Disney should realize they aren't the only game in town when it comes to accommodations for families and children.

And for what it's worth, I asked my 17 year old son what he thought of the changes. He said from his perspective, 11-12 years old kids should not be forced into Edge as the older kids because there are topics discussed at an age-appropriate level for 13-14 year old kids that an 11/12 year old shouldn't be privy too. And he was the kid who begged to go to Edge early, but then discovered he enjoyed and felt more comfortable back in the Oceaneer's Club. I'd say that adults & their kids likely know more about their needs that a corporate entity even one such as Disney.

 

[CamillaF]

Been trying to figure out why this was so distressing to me. How Disney made these changes is the most concerning. If this was a policy change that they wanted to implement they would have announced making it effective in 3-6 months. However they choose to do it in 2 weeks, without enough time to update their website. This means that there were Lawyers involved who decided that this took some of the liability off of the clubs down. I saw the blog on the law firms site that said they were suing due to abuse of a 3 year old from a 12 year old. That blog is now down. Is this quick change because of a settlement agreement? Or did they have another incident? They are moving immature 11-12 year olds to an unsupervised area so they don't have the liability of watching them (they can come and go as the please). If something happends in a state room Disney liability is much lower than if it happens in the Club. It just sucks that Disney had to make this call at all. My sailing is in the future and so I have time to change plans. My kids are now 10 and will be 11 on the cruise. However a lot of maturing happens during this time and they may be fine. I am sad for the CM's, they did not need this as quickly as it came. I feel for the families who for the next few months have to make the choice if they are OK with Disney making this call in light of the most likely reasons they had to make it so quick.

 

[Mags2002]

While it is horrible for a lot of people, Disney unfortunately has the right to change policies for anything at all without notice. They did it all the time during covid. It impacts Guests, but yes also CMs as well, who, let’s face it, are the ones going to be taking the brunt of this.
Edge is a really fun place, despite what people are saying and I hope that people will give it a try. The Counselors are working really hard to make it enjoyable for your kids

 

[lanejudy]

They are moving immature 11-12 year olds to an unsupervised area so they don't have the liability of watching them (they can come and go as the please).

Just to be clear... Edge is not unsupervised. Yes the kids are allowed in/out freedom -- but they are supervised within the Edge and my understanding is the same ratio used by standard US childcare laws. That is 1 adult to every 12 children, and in my experience there are more CMs than the minimum. Parents still have the "authority" to set boundaries with their children -- if you want your child to remain supervised, then tell him/her that they cannot leave without contacting you. At 11 yrs old, if a child is unable to obey a simple rule like that, there may be more to the child's development than immaturity.

But I do fully agree that the short notice from DCL is crappy and leaves some families in a tough situation. Rumor has been that DCL is allowing cancellations for those who really feel they cannot cruise under the new rules, so I hope that is true.

 

[Kwami]

Been trying to figure out why this was so distressing to me. How Disney made these changes is the most concerning. If this was a policy change that they wanted to implement they would have announced making it effective in 3-6 months. However they choose to do it in 2 weeks, without enough time to update their website. This means that there were Lawyers involved who decided that this took some of the liability off of the clubs down. I saw the blog on the law firms site that said they were suing due to abuse of a 3 year old from a 12 year old. That blog is now down. Is this quick change because of a settlement agreement? Or did they have another incident? They are moving immature 11-12 year olds to an unsupervised area so they don't have the liability of watching them (they can come and go as the please). If something happends in a state room Disney liability is much lower than if it happens in the Club. It just sucks that Disney had to make this call at all. My sailing is in the future and so I have time to change plans. My kids are now 10 and will be 11 on the cruise. However a lot of maturing happens during this time and they may be fine. I am sad for the CM's, they did not need this as quickly as it came. I feel for the families who for the next few months have to make the choice if they are OK with Disney making this call in light of the most likely reasons they had to make it so quick.

What blog? Is there an actual lawsuit? What's the lawsuit called?

 

[Mags2002]

What blog? Is there an actual lawsuit? What's the lawsuit called?

Everyone is very caught up in this lawsuit. This change is happening for many different reasons and saying this is why is misleading

 

[Mags2002]

And Edge is supervised. From my understanding they are adding more Counselors to the Edge schedule and there was even talk of adding even more supervised programming outside of the space itself

 

[CamillaF]

What blog? Is there an actual lawsuit? What's the lawsuit called?

https://www.braislaw.com/ this was the law firm. I read it on a blog on there post. I searched for the actual blog before I posted and it was down. They said that they were representing a the family of the 3 year old. This was were I got the link to the blog in the beginning. https://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads...ding-oceaneers-club-on-magic-3-9-3-13.980588/

 

[CamillaF]

Just to be clear... Edge is not unsupervised. Yes the kids are allowed in/out freedom -- but they are supervised within the Edge and my understanding is the same ratio used by standard US childcare laws. That is 1 adult to every 12 children, and in my experience there are more CMs than the minimum. Parents still have the "authority" to set boundaries with their children -- if you want your child to remain supervised, then tell him/her that they cannot leave without contacting you. At 11 yrs old, if a child is unable to obey a simple rule like that, there may be more to the child's development than immaturity.

But I do fully agree that the short notice from DCL is crappy and leaves some families in a tough situation. Rumor has been that DCL is allowing cancellations for those who really feel they cannot cruise under the new rules, so I hope that is true.

Yes I understand that Edge is very supervised I am sorry if my post did not come across like that. How ever the Edge has no rules about Kids leaving together and this is where the issue of supervision comes from.

 

[CamillaF]

And Edge is supervised. From my understanding they are adding more Counselors to the Edge schedule and there was even talk of adding even more supervised programming outside of the space itself

Yes I understand that Edge is very supervised I am sorry if my post did not come across like that. How ever the Edge has no rules about Kids leaving together and this is where the issue of supervision comes from. As far as misleading I think the whole situation is horrible and the fact that these changes are happening so fast and saying it's just a normal policy change is also misleading.

 

[Mags2002]

Yes I understand that Edge is very supervised I am sorry if my post did not come across like that. How ever the Edge has no rules about Kids leaving together and this is where the issue of supervision comes from.

That is when the parents need to be firm with the children. Tell them the rules and consequences for not following them.
You can still speak to the Counselors and let them know your concerns. No they won’t be able to stop your kid from leaving, but they can remind them they need to call you etc

 

[Mags2002]

Yes I understand that Edge is very supervised I am sorry if my post did not come across like that. How ever the Edge has no rules about Kids leaving together and this is where the issue of supervision comes from. As far as misleading I think the whole situation is horrible and the fact that these changes are happening so fast and saying it's just a normal policy change is also misleading.

Unfortunately Disney, like any company in the world, does not have to explain why policies are changing. It sucks that people are seriously impacted, but in the end DCL is a company who can do what they want

 

[starlite_]

The amount of ppl upset that they can't be without their children on a family vacation is so so very weird to me. Specially since those same ppl are basically saying they don't trust their kids to follow their instructions or walk around by themselves...wonder why they are "immature". YA at a kids club aren't babysitters, you are the parents! Parent your kids! Forever grateful that my parent's weren't so eager to get rid of me and sibling during vacation.

I get ppl being upset their expected plans were changed with little notice. But it's all very off putting.

 

[CamillaF]

Unfortunately Disney, like any company in the world, does not have to explain why policies are changing. It sucks that people are seriously impacted, but in the end DCL is a company who can do what they want

Yes thats very true. In my experiences when business make quick changes with out a though out roll out it is not because it was the best thing to do but because they had to do it fast for Legal, Health or Liability reasons. Covid was a legal and health reason for the changes and had to be fast.

 

[Mags2002]

Yes thats very true. In my experiences when business make quick changes with out a though out roll out it is not because it was the best thing to do but because they had to do it fast for Legal, Health or Liability reasons. Covid was a legal and health reason for the changes and had to be fast.

DCL is never going to say why they did it. And yes you’re right, safety is literally Number 1 at Disney, but there are other safety concerns with such a large age range than jumping straight to misconduct or abuse. And a gradual roll out of the new rules is just as tricky. Better to have it down hard and fast, people will get used to it

 

[vspenn]

I don't look to get rid of my kids on vacation. But my kids LOOOOVE Oceaneers' club and are begging to go back to Disney cruise only for that. If there was on-land replication of space, programming and theming, I would go but so far we haven't been able to find anything comparable. They love being there with other kids and without adults for part of the day. I'm sad because I thought I had more opportunities to be able to have vacation that everyone is excited about and now that's going away faster than I was planning for. I hear good feedback about Edge but the space is smaller, not as well-designed and you are at the mercy of luck on what group of kids it will be. The great thing about Club/Lab was that it didn't matter if you met any kids you liked or not - the programming was strong enough to participate in without needing to make friends. This is a cheapening on Disney part. If Edge was just as big and had as many choices (age appropriate), it woudln't feel like a downgrade. but it's not and it does feel like a downgrade for the 10-11yo age set.

 

[Mags2002]

I don't look to get rid of my kids on vacation. But my kids LOOOOVE Oceaneers' club and are begging to go back to Disney cruise only for that. If there was on-land replication of space, programming and theming, I would go but so far we haven't been able to find anything comparable. They love being there with other kids and without adults for part of the day. I'm sad because I thought I had more opportunities to be able to have vacation that everyone is excited about and now that's going away faster than I was planning for. I hear good feedback about Edge but the space is smaller, not as well-designed and you are at the mercy of luck on what group of kids it will be. The great thing about Club/Lab was that it didn't matter if you met any kids you liked or not - the programming was strong enough to participate in without needing to make friends. This is a cheapening on Disney part. If Edge was just as big and had as many choices (age appropriate), it woudln't feel like a downgrade. but it's not and it does feel like a downgrade for the 10-11yo age set.

Fair enough, everyone is entitled to their opinion. I hope your kids will give it a try at least. Although not 10-11; it’s 11-12

 

[ThinkTink91]

but there are other safety concerns with such a large age range than jumping straight to misconduct or abuse.

I started with the company in 2017 and only recently left. I can't tell you the amount of times I've seen a 12 year old plow over a 3-5yr old on accident. Or got hit in the head with a ball during a game.

The amount of times a younger cruiser has told me one of the older kids said a bad word to them. So, so many times. This change was needed.

My last contract we were going to get an incredible reward if we could get a cruise with 0 negative comments and the veterans all laughed at it because we ALWAYS get the comment that the age range is too big. Every. Single. Time.