The Running Thread - 2018

[cburnett11]

QOTD: I think most of us usually have our big race of the year early in the first quarter of the year, which means most of the hard runs are usually ran in cooler temps. For those who run a fall marathon, how far out do you start your plan, and how do you handle those long runs of 13 - 20 miles during the summer months?

I'll begin training for Chicago in early June. Right now i'm just running "when I feel like it". I wanted a little mental break after my 4/28 half that I trained pretty hard for. So I'll be looking at 18 weeks of 6 days/week training specific to Chicago. I didn't really plan it this way, but I'll be doing New York 4 weeks after Chicago. My plan is for Chicago to be the "A race" and New York to be the fun experience. If I get closer to Chicago and it looks like the weather will make it more difficult than I want, I may sorta train through it and make New York the bigger goal. But for now, I'm focusing on Chicago and hope to keep it that way.

Having said all that, running in the summer here is plenty warm and humid. I hate it, but will try to embrace it more this year. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger, right? I know of other runners that eat up the heat. I'm going to do my best to learn to like it this year. It's really easy for me to complain about a race to be a little warm if it's in the 60s and sunny... lol. I'd love to get mentally tougher so that a few degrees extra on race day doesn't get in my head. I'm amazed at all the people on this forum that deal with this in Florida, Texas, Louisiana, etc. It's pretty bad here, but others have to deal with oppressive summer running conditions

I make sure I hydrate plenty in the summer for long runs. That's not too hard for me. I also make sure to run in the early mornings as much as possible. I'll wear a hydration belt and my long runs aren't particularly fast so it doesn't bother me much having that on. When I do Tuesday speed work, the heat tends to bother me more. I don't really care to wear a belt when I'm trying to run fast, but then I have to figure out how I can work in some hydration during a recovery period. I usually run on a 0.8 mile oval, so it's pretty easy for me to leave some nuun water on the back of my vehicle to pick up every now and then.

 

[rteetz]

QOTD: I think most of us usually have our big race of the year early in the first quarter of the year, which means most of the hard runs are usually ran in cooler temps. For those who run a fall marathon, how far out do you start your plan, and how do you handle those long runs of 13 - 20 miles during the summer months?

I have never run a fall marathon. I really have started to hate training in the middle of winter.

 

[Miranda]

ATTQOTD: Up here in NH, races early in the first quarter of the year mean a lot of running in the snow and sub-zero temps... which I guess does qualify as "cooler". I prefer fall races a million times more. Yes, there is some hot training in the summer, but all that summer running usually means nice fast times when it gets into October and November. My fall HM's have in the past all been late October or early-mid November, so I'm not really sure when I would start my plan for Wineglass, which is on 9/30 this year. I'm hoping maybe to just maintain my current plan fitness for a while and then do a shorter plan, we'll see I guess. In the past few years I've done 12 week plans for my fall HM, although for W&D it was something way ridiculously longer (I used the runDisney Galloway plan), like 19 or 20 weeks.

It'd be nice to get a bit of a break from the schedule. I have no race plans right now after my HM this weekend until Wineglass except a 15K (that I'm still on the fence for) on June 2 that I'm planning on just coasting through on the coattails of my HM training since it's only 2 weeks after, and then Beach to Beacon 10K in August. I would kind of like to see if I can get my 10K time down, but that might be a tough job for an early August race (also 11:45 pace sounds really fast right now!)

As for training in the summer, I just take or plan for lots of water, try and plan routes on shaded roads, and if I'm running long, start as early as possible. Since joining a run group this has ended up not being as early as I would like, last year we moved our regular 8:30 runs on Saturday alllll the way up to 8:00. When solo training I'll start at like 5-5:30!

 

[cavepig]

I have a fall mid-September marathon and am so looking forward to training in the summer because I hate the freezing winter so much. Running for 3 hours in the heat/humidity I can handle, drink more, slow down, cool rags are all manageable compared to when it feels like 0 degrees, windy, maybe ice/snow and I can't feel my feet & frostbite & just no not fun at all.
I have a half Sunday then get a plan to start in June. So, yes bring on the heat

 

[sylkai]

I'm also in the "maintain at half marathon fitness year round" camp so I just put on the hydration backpack, slow down as necessary, and go. If it's really bad I can go run next to the Bay or on the coast for a little bit of relief, but I don't do that on a regular basis.

Good luck to the folks racing this weekend! I'm running Bay to Breakers on Sunday but that's less a "race" and more a "party with some running thrown in," from what I understand. (This is my first.)

 

[Sailormoon2]

QOTD: I think most of us usually have our big race of the year early in the first quarter of the year, which means most of the hard runs are usually ran in cooler temps. For those who run a fall marathon, how far out do you start your plan, and how do you handle those long runs of 13 - 20 miles during the summer months?

I typically start training for a Fall marathon in late June. Running long runs in the summer means getting up super early and getting started before the sun, or just as it's coming up. The rest just comes back to pace and hydration.

However, I think the one major benefit of a Fall Marathon is that you have trained through the worst heat and then get to run in (hopefully) more temperate conditions, so I typically do much better in Fall race than the same distance in the Spring.

 

[michigandergirl]

ATTQOTD: My fall marathon is October 21st. When I start training will depend on how fast my shins heal up. I will get my runs in as early as possible to beat the summer heat, and the beauty of @DopeyBadger plans is I'll likely never have to run a 20 miler again.

Hot & slow summer training leads to cool & fast fall racing!!!

 

[jennamfeo]

I missed stashing fudgesicles in the office fridge to eat with a cup of coffee after riding in.

This is brilliant and I think I am going to buy some otter pops to keep in my work fridge. Just because.

ATTQOTD: My next scheduled race is on September 16th and my training plan for that starts on Monday! Lots of early mornings and coffee for me this summer. Because although I am pretty good at getting up early, I am terrible at going to bed early. I'll sleep when I'm dead, I guess.

 

[DopeyBadger]

I'm feeling very nervous! My last training run was awful last night, my legs just didn't want to work. It's totally a thing to have a terrible last run and then a good race right??

It's looking like rain rain rain for me this weekend. So sorry anyone who runs a half at the same time as me. This will be my 10th half marathon and #4 with rain... well technically it's my 11th that I entered, but I guess we all know what happened at the last night time W&D! So that's 6 of 11 that have had some kind of weather malfunction that I've been at. (The 6th was some really unseasonable 80+ temps in the first week of May, that just doesn't normally happen in northern New England at that time of year.) Two of the other 3 with rain have been torrential drenching rain, so let's hope this one is at least more like the third which was just annoying light rain most of the time.

This is my first DB plan. I wasn't training for a PR, I wasn't in as good of shape coming into the plan as I was on my PR and I'm... yikes, like 25-30 lbs heavier. But my HM training paces had me training for 2:51:40, which would actually be like a 3rd best time for me (and less than a minute away from a 2nd best time). My last 6 HM's after my PR (2:45:08) have not gone well for various reasons, and 4 of those I have completely blown up and struggled in around 3:00-3:05 after starting out strong (TOO strong) and under PR pace. One race in particular from Nov 2016 that ended in a 3:05 time, I started out the first 4-5 miles under PR pace. I could not have more perfectly positively split that race if I tried. It's a beautiful bar graph in Strava... going in the completely wrong direction.

My last one in particular last fall was a disaster and ended in tears... cold, pouring rain, I felt extremely undertrained and pessimistic going into it and everything played out exactly like I was expecting/dreading. My body started to tell me it was done around 7-8 miles of running in the pouring rain and 40's temps, and I walked most of the way in from about mile 10. I wasn't last in the results, but I'm pretty sure I was last or very close to it on the actual course. I know there was at least one lady running that I passed but she was having a terrible time with blisters and probably dropped, and 2 walkers who may or may not have dropped, because the race director was leapfrogging me in his car the last couple miles, driving ahead and waiting then driving ahead and waiting, so I'm pretty sure there was no one left behind me by then. There was a whole mixup at the start of the race that put me in a bad headspace right to start... the race offered a half hour earlier start for walkers and runners needing extra time and I was really psyched to utilize that because I am a lot slower than most of the people in my running group and none of the ones closer to my pace were doing this race (or they were doing the 2 person relay option) and this was a group destination race so I was thinking this early start would have me finishing around the same time as the people in my group, but when I asked a volunteer about it, they told me that I wouldn't get an official time if I started then. I was so disappointed and wanted my results, so I started with the regular start. I found out later that I could have started then and gotten a time, the volunteer was wrong, and that's why I wasn't actually last in the results but was or close to it on the course.

So, with all that in mind this is how I summarized my goals for DB yesterday:
0. Finish feeling strong/good, not defeated
1. < 3:00
2. Pace myself more consistently over the whole race
3. < 2:52

I think if I do #2, I can do #3, so, @LSUlakes, please put me down for < 2:52

Don't worry about the awful training run. Happens all the time during the taper as mentally and physically your body is recovering and preparing for race day. In almost all cases, your body will be there for you come race day.

 

[TheHamm]

Inspired by @Miranda's challenging rain conditions, I have decided to sign up for a stupidly named 10K this weekend

May 20 - TheHamm - Ann Arbor Marathon 10K (1:20/XX)

Hopefully one can tell by the target time, I will be running the 10K, even though the name has marathon in it. I will bail if it is pouring. I have been 'training' for a 10K two weeks later, but with our recent weather, I fear it could well be washed away in a thunder storm and then I would be sad as there are no so many local 10Ks for the summer. If I make the goal here, I will still run later.

Honestly, if I had time I would walk the half as it is a route I used to bike often. I am a bit nervous about the course itself. The 10K map does not have the elevation change, which I know is not trivial. It also goes through the University Arboretum, and I can only imagine it is packed dirt and woodchips and I think this is important information they should share. I am telling myself (1) I have the privilege to run. My family has agreed that I can take time out of our plans and be tired the rest of the day. (2) if it is not a thunder storm or pouring rain, I know my body will finish even if I walk a large chunk of it.

Now to find the discount code they announced on the radio this morning.....

 

[roxymama]

This week we have the following folks with races:

19 - @disneydaydreamer33 - Ogden Half Marathon (NG / N/A)
19 - @BoilerGirl91 - Cleveland Marathon 5k (NG / N/A)
19 - @MissLiss279 - Fargo Marathon (4:25:00 / N/A)
19 - @xjillianpaige - Martha's Vineyard Half Marathon (2:45:00 / N/A)
19 - @roxymama - Girls on the Run 5k (NG / N/A)
19 - @TCB in FLA - Mountains to Main St Half Marathon (2:19:59 / N/A)
19 - @FredtheDuck - St. Michael's Running Festival (TBD / NA)
20 - @PrincessMickey - Colfax 10 Miler (2:07:00 / N/A)
20 - Boilergirl91 - Cleveland Marathon 10k (NG / N/A)
20 - @apdebord - Marine Corps Historic Half Marathon (NG / N/A)
20 - @Miranda - Wallis Sands Half Marathon (NG / N/A)
20 - @BikeFan - Marine Corps Semper Five Miler (NG / N/A)
20 - BikeFan - Marine Corps Historic Half Marathon (NG / N/A)

Best of luck to each of you this weekend! Hope you have a great race and safe travels to and from race day. If you would like to revise your race goal or if someone else would like to add a race to this weekend list, just let me know. We look forward to hearing how your race goes and hopefully lots of PR's!

@LSUlakes No racing for me this weekend. You can wipe that one off. I'm doing volunteering not running - sticking to my training plan instead. Also royal wedding stalking...that's a sport, right?

 

[roxymama]

ATTQOTD: Hopefully Da Coach thinks my response makes sense. I have th Chicago marathon this fall, it's my first full ever but I've ran fall 13.1 or 15ks which had me training in hot months before. So my plan is to be super honest with what the effort feels like. I know what a long run effort feels like now in good weather, so if I'm not hitting the exact same paces due to T+D/weather reasons then I should run to the long run effort even if my pace slows, record the results of my run and we just keep going. Trying to hit a certain pace but killing myself when it's not supposed to be a "hard day" is not a good idea. I've learned that already in my shorter distance plans, so it should still apply to the marathon plan. This goes for crazy windy days as well...if it's an easy day, just ride out the wind and run slower.

Edited to add: I am looking forward to not having to layer on the cold weather gear for all my training runs. Give me tanks and short sleeves any day!

 

[camaker]

ATTQOTD: Hopefully Da Coach thinks my response makes sense. I have th Chicago marathon this fall, it's my first full ever but I've ran fall 13.1 or 15ks which had me training in hot months before. So my plan is to be super honest with what the effort feels like. I know what a long run effort feels like now in good weather, so if I'm not hitting the exact same paces due to T+D/weather reasons then I should run to the long run effort even if my pace slows, record the results of my run and we just keep going. Trying to hit a certain pace but killing myself when it's not supposed to be a "hard day" is not a good idea. I've learned that already in my shorter distance plans, so it should still apply to the marathon plan. This goes for crazy windy days as well...if it's an easy day, just ride out the wind and run slower.

Edited to add: I am looking forward to not having to layer on the cold weather gear for all my training runs. Give me tanks and short sleeves any day!

Rather than starting out on a hot day with the target paces the same, I check the temp and dew point immediately prior to walking out the door and use the T+D adjustment chart to determine a new starting target pace. Once I get rolling, I fine tune it to what feels right for the given run. That keeps me from going out too fast for conditions and burning up too much energy in the first portion of the run. It might be worth a try.

 

[Sleepless Knight]

I'm feeling very nervous! My last training run was awful last night, my legs just didn't want to work. It's totally a thing to have a terrible last run and then a good race right??

I got sick a few weeks before Star Wars Light Side 2016 and had to miss training runs including some longer ones. My last long run of 12.5 miles had to be cut short because I tried to do too much too soon. Then I went out and crushed Light Side shaving a good 9-10 minutes of my 2015 pace and coming in under 2 minutes short of my PR, which had no photo stops at all whereas I always stop for photos now.

I learned from that experience that you do not lose months of training overnight and when you've been consistent, it can pay off.

ATTQOTD: I've yet to run a full. Tenatively set on WDW Marathon 2019 to change that. In my Disneyland Half running days, I did have some long runs in July and August. However, once I started running the Star Wars races, I no longer had long runs in the summer.

 

[DopeyBadger]

ATTQOTD: Hopefully Da Coach thinks my response makes sense. I have th Chicago marathon this fall, it's my first full ever but I've ran fall 13.1 or 15ks which had me training in hot months before. So my plan is to be super honest with what the effort feels like. I know what a long run effort feels like now in good weather, so if I'm not hitting the exact same paces due to T+D/weather reasons then I should run to the long run effort even if my pace slows, record the results of my run and we just keep going. Trying to hit a certain pace but killing myself when it's not supposed to be a "hard day" is not a good idea. I've learned that already in my shorter distance plans, so it should still apply to the marathon plan. This goes for crazy windy days as well...if it's an easy day, just ride out the wind and run slower.

Edited to add: I am looking forward to not having to layer on the cold weather gear for all my training runs. Give me tanks and short sleeves any day!

Rather than starting out on a hot day with the target paces the same, I check the temp and dew point immediately prior to walking out the door and use the T+D adjustment chart to determine a new starting target pace. Once I get rolling, I fine tune it to what feels right for the given run. That keeps me from going out too fast for conditions and burning up too much energy in the first portion of the run. It might be worth a try.

Agree with both. I consult the chart to get an idea where I should be. Then I run by effort as I've got years of experience at each of the different types of paces. The hope is that I'm close to the adjustment, but if not I don't worry. I'm more concerned about a fade. The fade in pacing during the course of a run will tell me that I pushed too hard for a given type of pace. Just for kicks as an example, I ran a 14 mile run (3 WU + 8 mile Marathon Tempo + 3 mile CD) at marathon effort on Sunday. It was a 7:00 min/mile average. Last night I ran a 6 x 1 mile Daniels T workout (Daniels T is 60 min race pace, thus faster than Marathon Tempo). The effort of Daniels T was a 7:04 min/mile. So between last Sunday and Wednesday my Marathon effort was a 7:00 for 8 continuous miles of rolling hills vs a Daniels T effort being a 7:04 for a 6 x 1 mile with resting breaks and no hills. The difference. The weather. Sunday was a T+D in the 80s (ideal) and Wednesday was a T+D in the 130s (too hot for spring in WI). But I let my effort be the guide on each day to roll with the situation. Based on my pace chart on current fitness the M Tempo should have been around 7:00-7:05 and the Daniels T with a T+D adjustment should have been a 6:47-6:52. So my effort said to run a little slower on Wednesday for the Daniels T. The HR was near spot on historical for Sunday and for Wednesday was a touch too low (suggesting I might have been a bit too fatigued entering that run since I lacked the power necessary and since I saw a fade in pacing as well).

QOTD: I think most of us usually have our big race of the year early in the first quarter of the year, which means most of the hard runs are usually ran in cooler temps. For those who run a fall marathon, how far out do you start your plan, and how do you handle those long runs of 13 - 20 miles during the summer months?

My Chicago marathon training starts June 18th. I'm currently in the writing phase, but I plan to follow something similar to Daniels 4-week rotating cycle plan. It has two massive workouts per week. The plan is to try and do some in the early morning cool hours to get in a solid workout and then additionally intentionally do some in the not as nice mid-day hours. The reason is because I don't know what to expect on race day, so I like to prepare myself mentally and physically for what might happen. So if I know the T+D on race day will be a 135, then I consult my last couple of marathon paced workouts and look for a similar T+D day. Then I know based on that day what kind of adjustment to pace I recently had to make. Regardless though, on race day I'll run blind to GPS and just run by marathon effort. I trust myself to know what's the right pace and mentally it puts myself at ease knowing that I don't know whether I'm on goal pace or not. I can maintain a high level of motivation throughout.

 

[roxymama]

Regardless though, on race day I'll run blind to GPS and just run by marathon effort. I trust myself to know what's the right pace and mentally it puts myself at ease knowing that I don't know whether I'm on goal pace or not. I can maintain a high level of motivation throughout.

The Chicago skyscrapers and Wacker Dr. tunnels are not a GPS lover's friend anyways #drunkgarmins
I've heard to wait until the 5k point or beyond on the marathon course for you to get out of the garmin-deadzone.
My fave was when it drew a diagonal line between the start of the tunnel on wacker to where we emerged and decided I'd ran 1 mile in ~3 minutes. Yeah...ok. Ego boost sure...realizing you're watch has hit the final race distance waaaaay too early because of it is annoying!!

 

[camaker]

The Chicago skyscrapers and Wacker Dr. tunnels are not a GPS lover's friend anyways #drunkgarmins
I've heard to wait until the 5k point or beyond on the marathon course for you to get out of the garmin-deadzone.
My fave was when it drew a diagonal line between the start of the tunnel on wacker to where we emerged and decided I'd ran 1 mile in ~3 minutes. Yeah...ok. Ego boost sure...realizing you're watch has hit the final race distance waaaaay too early because of it is annoying!!

This is why I plan to purchase a pair of pace bands bracketing my targeted finish range. That way I only have to use the elapsed time on my Garmin in combination with the course mile markers to tell whether I’m on track or not.

 

[DopeyBadger]

The Chicago skyscrapers and Wacker Dr. tunnels are not a GPS lover's friend anyways #drunkgarmins
I've heard to wait until the 5k point or beyond on the marathon course for you to get out of the garmin-deadzone.
My fave was when it drew a diagonal line between the start of the tunnel on wacker to where we emerged and decided I'd ran 1 mile in ~3 minutes. Yeah...ok. Ego boost sure...realizing you're watch has hit the final race distance waaaaay too early because of it is annoying!!

I figured I'd turn off the auto-lap feature and just hit the lap button whenever I saw a mile marker. That way I know the splits to be accurate to the course (knowing that'll probably run a little extra distance because of tangents). But all along, I just won't look at it. Maybe I'll have it give me some completely unrelated feedback at lap intervals (like cadence). I'll have to look and see if that's an option. Or I'll leave auto-lap on but turn the buzzer and noise notification off. That way I won't know when something goes off early.

 

[OldSlowGoofyGuy]

ATTQOTD: My target marathon has always been Rocket City, the first week of December. Last year I started my @DopeyBadger plan on July 9th.

This put the bulk of my training runs in North Georgia's hottest months, which seemed even hotter last year. I do all my runs in the morning, but even in the morning we were having crazy T+Ds.

Somehow, the heat doesn't really bother me. Don't get me wrong: it affects my speed and effort and I would finish most runs 100% soaked, as wet as if I had jumped in a pool.

But mentally, I'm OK with the heat. I'd rather run on the hottest day of the year, than the coldest day of the year.

I also think I get a race day 'bounce' of doing the bulk of training in the heat, but racing in the cold. (Although cold in not guaranteed at RCM.)

While looking at my Garmin activities to answer this question, I discovered the year view in the calendar, which is a great way to see how consistent you were. (And I'm going to brag about how consistent I was!)

 

[roxymama]

This is why I plan to purchase a pair of pace bands bracketing my targeted finish range. That way I only have to use the elapsed time on my Garmin in combination with the course mile markers to tell whether I’m on track or not.

Good idea
I'm not trying to PR (it's an automatic PR!!!!) but I worry more about going out too fast in the beginning (HYPE!!!) and so I kind of want to make sure that I'm not burning myself out too quickly. Watching the race clocks instead of GPS during those first few miles will be key for me (knowing myself.) Like I don't want to freak out that my pace says 13 min miles if it's really a 10 something and push hard for no reason.

I figured I'd turn off the auto-lap feature and just hit the lap button whenever I saw a mile marker. That way I know the splits to be accurate to the course (knowing that'll probably run a little extra distance because of tangents). But all along, I just won't look at it. Maybe I'll have it give me some completely unrelated feedback at lap intervals (like cadence). I'll have to look and see if that's an option. Or I'll leave auto-lap on but turn the buzzer and noise notification off. That way I won't know when something goes off early.

Does your watch have a feature where it shoots confetti and unicorns at you when you cross in BQ qualifying time?