Surge protector?

[Gabbafriend]

Just wondering if a surge protector is necessary for our pop up trailer at the fort? We are staying in the preferred section (if that makes a difference?) Thanks

 

[Cousin Ed C]

A surge protector is a good thing to have where ever you camp.

 

[team bradfield]

Ditto what Cousin Ed said

 

[morrik5]

We actually tripped ours at the Fort last week when we were running just too many things at the same time.

 

[Gabbafriend]

Thanks for the feedback

 

[MudQueen22]

We use a Progressive EMS each time we plug in anywhere.

 

[PaHunter]

The Fort just as any campground can be subject to power surges, or low voltage. A surge protector is good insurance. I worked in a campground, found someone once wired the 30amp lines to the 20amp plug, they kept tripping the breaker with all the toys they brought camping. Next camper found it when the hooked up to the 30amp service and had no power at all. We use ours not only at campgrounds, but when we are plugged in here at home.

 

[morrik5]

The Fort just as any campground can be subject to power surges, or low voltage. A surge protector is good insurance. I worked in a campground, found someone once wired the 30amp lines to the 20amp plug, they kept tripping the breaker with all the toys they brought camping. Next camper found it when the hooked up to the 30amp service and had no power at all. We use ours not only at campgrounds, but when we are plugged in here at home.

Never thought to use it at home but then again, ours now is an inline one so don't need to worry.

 

[TheRustyScupper]

A surge protector is a good thing to have where ever you camp.

1) Yep.
2) We have voltage changes (drops and surges) like any other hotel-business-residence.
30 Additionally, Florida has frequent afternoon storms, some with lightning strikes.

 

[westom]

2) We have voltage changes (drops and surges) like any other hotel-business-residence.
30 Additionally, Florida has frequent afternoon storms, some with lightning strikes.

Totally confused is a surge protector for trailers verse one for homes. Those completely different devices address completely different anomalies.

First voltage changes in hotel-business-residences are so massive that incandescent bulbs dim to 50% or double intensity? Of course not. Protectors in homes completely ignore that anomaly.

That same anomaly can be problematic in campgrounds. So trailer protectors are designed to address that anomaly.

Second, trailer protectors typically do not protect from surges from lightning. Ironically, neither do plug-in protectors. Hotel-business-residences implement something completely different, called a surge protect, that makes such anomalies irrelevant. And is necessary to protect those tiny joule plug-in devices called a surge protector.

Third, if not obvious, defined are three completely different devices all called surge protectors. All address different anomalies. Obvious when one learns facts (ie specification numbers) before making a recommendation.

 

[Eyeeore]

Weston, while I agree with your points, I have to disagree on the devices. I spent 42+ years in the IT world and saw firsthand what happens on power surges/brownouts. Most buildings have a surge device at the meter base or attached to the main breaker panel for direct strikes (not that it matters much, nothing much protects against a direct hit, the best you can hope for is a blown protector). The only thing in a home, office, or building that handles a surge/drop is a UPS. One that will hold a building is really expensive and used only in the environment where a power drop cannot be tolerated.

On an RV, it's a bit different, I use a Progressive 50amp hardwired into my power lead. It not only gives me some protection against surges, it also will shut the camper down if the voltage goes either too high or too low. An autoformer can be useful if you camp a lot in places that have issues with voltage regulation or you're on a generator. Most folks that use generators along with shore power put the surge device just ahead of the distribution panel.

Regardless of whether it's a pop-up or a motor coach, I'd invest in a Progressive unit just because.

Your results may vary. I've seen the outcome of a RV power issue. Converter, microwave, tv's, and the power panel had to be replaced.

 

[westom]

I spent 42+ years in the IT world and saw firsthand what happens on power surges/brownouts. Most buildings have a surge device at the meter base or attached to the main breaker panel for direct strikes (not that it matters much, nothing much protects against a direct hit, the best you can hope for is a blown protector). The only thing in a home, office, or building that handles a surge/drop is a UPS.

Not only have I been doing this stuff longer. I also routinel observe IT people routinely use junk science reasoning to rationalize a conclusion. For example, basic electrical knowledge means one never discusses brownouts and surges as similar in a same sentence. Brownouts do not damage electronics. Classic junk science justified only by observation is bogus for so many reasons as to be numbered.

First, international design standards long before a PC existed means all voltage down to zero must not cause hardware damage. In fact, the expression on that chart is in all capital letters: "No Damage Region". If a brownout causes damage, then electronics were designed defectively. And that damage traceable to an IT person who foolishly purchased it.

Second, as a electronic design engineer, we never designed anything that would be damaged by a brownout. Why? Tom MacIntyre describes what hardware designers routinely do:

We operate everything on an isolated variac, which means that I can control the voltage going into the unit I am working on from about 150 volts down to zero. This enables us to verify power regulation for over and under-voltage situations. ...

Switching supplies ... can and will regulate with very low voltages on the AC line in; the best I've seen was a TV which didn't die until I turned the variac down to 37 VAC! A brownout wouldn't have even affected the picture on that set.

Not die as in damage. Die as in power off - how all electronics work. Tim demonstrates what we all did because brownouts must never cause damage.

Third, all electronics have spec numbers. Voltage can drop so low that incandescent bulbs dim to 50% intensity. All electronic spec numbers say that voltage is ideal. Computers are required to be even more robust. A 40% intensity is just fine for a computer. However these same voltages can be destructive to motorized appliances. So the AC utility is required to maintain sufficient voltage - to protect motors. Or cut off power.

How often do your incandescent bulbs constantly glow at anywhere near 50% intensity? If it exists, then you call an electrician *yesterday* because a human safety threat exists and is that serious. Unfortunately most IT people have no idea why that symptom can be reporting a threat to human life.

Four, if brownouts are destructive, then I have read the component damaged by a brownout. Well I have been doing this stuff for over 50 years. And have yet to see a datasheet that defines that 'at risk' component. So please do what informed replies always do. Define what specifically is at risk and why - with numbers. That is what an honest technical recommendation does.

Those soundbyte declarations were based only in observation - also called junk science. Honest requires this much text just to contradict one point - with honesty. That is the difference between reality and junk science. Reailty takes so much longer to define - and spec numbers. Above only debunks the brownout myth so common with electrically naive IT people.

Brownouts are a threat to motorized appliances. And are a common problem in campgrounds. Brownouts are not a problem in home or businesses due to point three. So the Progressive is first and foremost for that anomaly.

Next: a brownout is a voltage that drops well below 120 volts. A surge is a voltage that may well exceed 1000 volts. Numbers say nobody should be discussing brownouts and surges in the same sentence or paragraph if basic electrical knowledge was available.

A surge is averted by something completely different that must connect low impedance to earth. Two type protectors exist. One,located in a camper is too far from earth ground - cannot effectively protect from surges. Another that attaches to the power pole makes that low impedance (wire length is critical - not thickness) connection to earth. Only then do protector parts avert surges that typically well exceed 330 volts.

Why 330 volts? Basic electrical knowledge necessary before making a recommendation means that number is obvious and need not be explained.

Direct lightning strikes without damage even to a protector are routine. When nothing can protect from a direct lightning strike, then we know a person, without relevant experience and knowledge, did not even learn how protection worked routinely over 100 years ago. That protection exists in every town. But is completely unknown when recommendation are based only in emotions, hearsay, wild speculation, advertising lies, and subjective reasoning (no numbers).

Your telco CO suffers 100 surges with each storm. How often is your town without service for four days while they replace that $multi-million computer? They use what is also implemented in a Progressive that attaches to the pole. How do you explain 100 surges per storm - and no damage for the past 100 years? Suddenly conclusions from observation take on a completely different meaning once one learns simple, basic electrical concepts that were standard long before mainframe computers (and long before you or I) existed.

Damage from brownouts and surges are exist when one did not even learn basics. Brownouts threaten motorized appliances - not electronics. Surge only do damage when a human has failed to learn simple and well proven concepts that were first demonstrated by Franklin over 250 years ago. Effective protectors (that also costs less money) come with spec numbers that define no damage even from direct lightning strikes.

Soundbyte myths are promoted by a few sentences. Technical honesty takes so many paragraphs with plenty of numbers and well understood science concepts.

The Progressive is for anomalies unique to campgrounds. Completely different anomalies (also called surges by the electrically naive) exist in homes and businesses. These require a completely different and unrelated solution - also called a surge protector.

Surge protector is a subjective term so that the naive can stay naive. Context with always required spec numbers must exist to differentiate a surge protector from something completely different called a surge protector. Protector for a camper has no relationship to a protector for homes and businesses.

Brownout damage is a despicable 'junk science' assumption. Exists only when observation replaces honesty and concepts originally taught in junior high school science.

No way around those electrically naive statements other then to expose them bluntly with numbers and well proven science. The most despicable is that popular, destructive brownout fable. Brownouts are a threat only in campgrounds - and only to motorized appliances.

 

[veraletta]

We always use surge protector at every camp ground or even at home.

 

[westom]

We always use surge protector at every camp ground or even at home.

Which one? One that limits voltages on a motherboard, one that averts damage from low voltage (ie Progressive), one that is inside a power strip that is suppose to do some vague type protection, one that limits ocean tides, one that keeps audio volume down, one that is used by informed homeowners to divert current that may otherwise create thousands of volts (ie 'whole house'), or one inside a UPS that does nothing?

Which of maybe 15 completely different items, all called surge protectors, all that do something completely different, do you use?

Apparently a posted fact was overlooked. A term surge protector is subjective - so it says almost nothing useful.

 

[Joel W]

Which one? One that limits voltages on a motherboard, one that averts damage from low voltage (ie Progressive), one that is inside a power strip that is suppose to do some vague type protection, one that limits ocean tides, one that keeps audio volume down, one that is used by informed homeowners to divert current that may otherwise create thousands of volts (ie 'whole house'), or one inside a UPS that does nothing?

Which of maybe 15 completely different items, all called surge protectors, all that do something completely different, do you use?

Apparently a posted fact was overlooked. A term surge protector is subjective - so it says almost nothing useful.

So...to help the original poster...what universal rv electrical protection device do you recommend?

 

[westom]

So ... what universal rv electrical protection device do you recommend?

Solutions for everything in life start by first identifying the problem. In campgrounds, what anomalies are problematic?

First is a missing safety ground. Second, an undervoltage (a threat to motorized appliances). Third, a floating neutral resulting in excessively low or excessive high voltage. No household protector addresses any of these. Completely different devices (also called protectors) and designed for campers do address these.

An industry benchmark was already posted:

So the Progressive is first and foremost for that anomaly.

and

The Progressive is for anomalies unique to campgrounds.

Another anomaly that rarely happens is a high current transient. And also discussed:

One,located in a camper is too far from earth ground - cannot effectively protect from surges. Another that attaches to the power pole makes that low impedance (wire length is critical - not thickness) connection to earth. Only then do protector parts avert surges that typically well exceed 330 volts.

 

[Joel W]

Solutions for everything in life start by first identifying the problem. In campgrounds, what anomalies are problematic?

First is a missing safety ground. Second, an undervoltage (a threat to motorized appliances). Third, a floating neutral resulting in excessively low or excessive high voltage. No household protector addresses any of these. Completely different devices (also called protectors) and designed for campers do address these.

An industry benchmark was already posted: and

Another anomaly that rarely happens is a high current transient. And also discussed:

Just trying to wrap my head around it. I have a Progressive surge protector myself (the external pole mounted). This is the preferred hookup to offer the most protection? I'm somewhat competent with electrical stuff, but myself need a universal solution as I do not know how to test/protect against all situations. Thanks.

 

[westom]

I'm somewhat competent with electrical stuff, but myself need a universal solution as I do not know how to test/protect against all situations. Thanks.

So what protects from noise, frequency variations, bad power factor, missing earth ground, blackouts, EMC/EMI, or harmonics? Some anomalies are frequent - need protection. Others rarely exist or are not problematic.

A Progressive addresses most common campground anomalies including previously mentioned three and another I forgot to mention: polarity reversal. Progressive is a benchmark even used to compare and maybe select products from other manufacturers.