Plans have been filed for DVC expansion at Caribbean Beach Resort

[Q-man]

That's square in an ugly service area with access roads filled with trucks all day.

Gotta think about this realistically.

Gateway between France and Morocco? But that cuts off France's backstage.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

I'm just trying to think like Disney. I think Disney is hoping that a Lounge or restaurant at the top of this tower will be a selling point for people to buy in. I agree with you otherwise though.

And if you do that with restricted access (so unique/limited experience) and if do it at slightly less cost (points per night) than at other deluxe people will by it

 

[rteetz]

And if you do that with restricted access (so unique/limited experience) and if do it at slightly less cost (points per night) than at other deluxe people will by it

True but I just don't see Park access becoming part of this project. It's a moderate resort and Disney doesn't like to spend more than they have to.

 

[rteetz]

Gateway between France and Morocco? But that cuts off France's backstage.

Especially when rumor is right now France is about to get a new attraction that would need some of that backstage space.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

True but I just don't see Park access becoming part of this project. It's a moderate resort and Disney doesn't like to spend more than they have to.

I was agreeing with you - I meant restricted access to the view/rooftop bar/restaurant

I really don't thing direct access to a park will be part of this

 

[rteetz]

I was agreeing with you - I meant restricted access to the view/rooftop bar/restaurant

I really don't thing direct access to a park will be part of this

Okay got it my bad.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Okay got it my bad.

no worries - I've mixed things up too as lots of various concepts thrown out in this thread

 

[jade1]

Fun thread. Love seeing the imagination some posters have on here.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

And if you do that with restricted access (so unique/limited experience) and if do it at slightly less cost (points per night) than at other deluxe people will by it

Bay lake tower constructed on the grounds of Caribbean wouldn't sell at the current price point.

I'm not sure Bay lake tower itself would...those points at the poly aren't exactly flying...and they are gonna have a hell of a time at wilderness.

Wilderness is so much nicer than Caribbean it's not really worth considering.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Gateway between France and Morocco? But that cuts off France's backstage.

Nope...longterm logistical cost.

Here's how you I look at it. To make a gate worthwhile...you'd have to have Caribbean, pop, AoA and this new fab-o tower funneling into it...

But if you do that you throw the entire hotel pricing structure out of whack...which means you'd have to drastically increase prices to compensate...alienating the strong lower price market and pushing it towards the unpopular higher priced market.

It's a lose/lose on multiple angles.

 

[Sweettears]

I think there would be a lot of challenges there. That canal doesn't look wide enough for Friendship boats so would probably need to be widened. I am also not sure if it's deep enough, which would be even more work. Depending on where they connect to the canal they would have to replace 2 or 3 bridges which are currently not high enough. The trickiest part is that the canal doesn't actually connect to the water way where the IG is. The IG water way uses a water bridge to pass over Avenue of the Star and Epcot Resorts Blvd, it would be a tricky project to make the connection. None of this says it can't be done, but it wouldn't be cheap.

View attachment 216360

Also if my memory is correct the bridge over the canal entrance under the WS path is a drawbridge since the clearance is not very high.

 

[Sweettears]

The more I think about what I think will be done is

- will be DVC as I can't imagine they take down existing rooms just to build new regular, non-DVC rooms
- Main feature will be a tower (or two) featuring views of EPCOT/World Showcase/Illuminations v2.0
- Will feature other Deluxe like elements (Table service restaurant, highly themed public areas and rooms, highly themed pool/splash area - even if not huge, etc.) - all dedicated to the DVC guests
- Will NOT have direct access to a park - they could do it but don't see them spending the money just for one resort
- Will have to have a dedicated Bus - can't just make this an 8th stop in the CBR bus loop
- Will feature studios for lowish point totals and suites for people that want to fit more people in a room - so value of points/person staying is relatively good
- cost per point will be similar to what they are charging now - though by the time they are finished per time value of money they will cost less, but can save face but not reducing in absolute dollars

Is this as attractive as the Poly or VGF to many? Probably not but if they others are sold out and the sales pitch is - get in now at the same cost as 2013 and need fewer points (maybe reduce the minimum number of points for initial purchase) to stay at this resort .... so in the end it is less cash out lay in total for people and you get a great view ... I think people will buy

Thinking: $165/point - but say 12 points / night at studio ... 16/night suite or something and do 84 point minimum so that gets you a week at this resort in a studio for <$14k

(I'm not expert at this so might be off in the numbers, but I think that is the concept .... $/point stays the same - slightly lower points per night but not that much - get people in that are interested in DVC but can't afford CGF, etc.) ... definitely makes these attractive during

I'm still not sure why it has to be DVC. They never had occupancy problems with the deluxes when you could get them for $400 or so a night. I used to stay there all of the time. When the price rose to $600+, I don't think so. The Swalphin fits my needs. Building vertical adds a lot of rooms that may have a higher price point than what they now have at CBR.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Also if my memory is correct the bridge over the canal entrance under the WS path is a drawbridge since the clearance is not very high.

That wouldn't be in play...that's near the fireworks barn and they don't use the world showcase lagoon to transport people in and out of the park. its unlikely that they want people going to the gateway that way.

 

[mab2012]

Ok...I get your general premise...did you see the part of "increased overhead/reduced revenue"?

That's part of the thinking

200 rooms at 25 a night is more valuable than 250 at 20 a night...from a purely operational standpoint.

I agree with all of that. I'm not sure it makes the moderate concept completely unfeasible though. The devil is in the details, and I don't have them.

But...I usually reject that because the point of dvc is to lock in longterm ancillary spending...

Agreed on this too. That's part of the reason I think Disney might be willing to give up some margin on the original construction.

But...people around here swear that the contracts and dues are "big money makers"...

Well, I'm sure they see the short term return on construction as a pretty healthy side benefit. Not sure it's their main goal though. As for dues, they'll get a cut on the management fees, of course, but I doubt it's any more than they would make operating a regular hotel. And they'd still take that cut from a moderate DVC. So I don't think that's likely to be a driving factor either way.

All that said, I, like you, am still not convinced that this must be a DVC project. Actually I'm not convinced on anything - even the ideas I'm batting around myself. Interesting thread though.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

I'm still not sure why it has to be DVC. They never had occupancy problems with the deluxes when you could get them for $400 or so a night. I used to stay there all of the time. When the price rose to $600+, I don't think so. The Swalphin fits my needs. Building vertical adds a lot of rooms that may have a higher price point than what they now have at CBR.

I guess that's possible too - just have a harder time seeing deliver extra type rooms added to a moderate resort - perhaps if it is a suites type tower or something though

 

[Sweettears]

I guess that's possible too - just have a harder time seeing deliver extra type rooms added to a moderate resort - perhaps if it is a suites type tower or something though

In my mind to make this work, suites with a view and balcony. I would pay for that. I choose Swalphin over the moderates because of the added amenities to the room. Disney moderates barely provide a chair to sit in. At least a comfortable one.

 

[DanBoris]

This is one of the more interesting rumors to come down the pipe since I've been here...honestly.

Dvc there still makes no sense to me because honestly Caribbean is a poorly laid out and built property and that doesn't really fit.

"It's so close!!!"...that is the most deceiving stance ever. It's as landlocked/difficult to get in and out of as anywhere. What do they do with the park areas NOT attached by mythic canal? It consistently has the worst travel times to the other places. Think this unit is gonna have happy customers with a 50 minute to downtown? Which is on the same street? Or hour plus to magic kingdom?

Do you make a separate loop? That's overhead they want NO part of and problematic.

And as you said...you can look on the map behind Epcot and find water...but that doesn't mean it was prepped for passenger traffic. Think disney development corp is gonna be keen on $100 mil of infrastructure work to give a boat to one of their lesser units? Or will they say "nah...we're good...we'll BS them some other way"

I just know Caribbean. This isn't a good idea. And I'm such an "optimist" about the consumer - usually wrongly so - and I have to think at some point there won't be a line to buy cheap, low creativity repurposing/squeezed water from old rocks...

...like a dvc at the worst design/Moto lodge resembling property on site.

Not sure exactly which rumor you are referring to. Let break it down...

- Major changes to Caribbean Beach including removal of old buildings and construction of new - Confirmed
- New construction being DVC - rumored in the past, but it could go either way.
- Boat connection to Epcot - rumored in the past, no evidence of immediate plans to do this.
- Boat connection using the canal around Epcot - I consider this armchair Imagineering.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Not sure exactly which rumor you are referring to. Let break it down...

- Major changes to Caribbean Beach including removal of old buildings and construction of new - Confirmed
- New construction being DVC - rumored in the past, but it could go either way.
- Boat connection to Epcot - rumored in the past, no evidence of immediate plans to do this.
- Boat connection using the canal around Epcot - I consider this armchair Imagineering.

...the idea of dvc at a moderate...and Caribbean in particular. It's not hard to make the case it's the worst...even taking into account location...

...then there's all these other "peels" off the onion.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

They've filed the permits for Caribbean...so it's not a lock but it's likely they're gonna build something to repurpose Caribbean in some capacity...

But nothing else is set...especially dvc.

I can see this as "family suites" at a relatively high price.

What do we know about the occupancy of those rooms at music and aoa?

I think they're booked always...that's a more attractive option as it stands. They have a large retrofit at wildenrness that they haven't begun to sell yet...and other easier dvc expansion spots.

Or are we seeing a new "class"
Of dvc? Currently the math doesn't work at Caribbean.

 

[DisFanDad]

I think you are incorrect...OKW has a loyal following.

But I saw you say "I bought gf and poly"

Nope...you bought points tied to there. It doesn't guarantee you access to it. It's all the same...you paid double what I did and I paid double what my inlaws did.

It's not a timeshare...its "vacation ownership"...as they used to say in the pitch.

I rag on Saratoga all the tine...rightfully so...but a lot of longstanding use it heavily. They are likely not too eager to go to Caribbean...

Indeed, we own at AKL, and bought resale at a steal, before they changed the perk access.

But I will say this, DVC is addressing the OKW issue. Isn't the resort up for a complete overhaul ? I mean, I love the location and the grounds, but the rooms are just ... ugh. If they redo them, and well, would completely change things. Esp with the growing attraction of Downtown Disney.