Plans have been filed for DVC expansion at Caribbean Beach Resort

[lockedoutlogic]

Haven't read all 15 pages but from what I've skimmed no one has said all you need is to improve the Epcot backstage canal and a bridge/walk way over BVD and you can deliver people via boat to the present IG boat dock.

Hmmm...interesting...

 

[LaidBackDad]

Still convinced they're tunneling and putting in a gate, huh?

No tunnel, no new gate. All it takes is a back hoe or 2 and a small bridge. It may not be a boat but some sort of direct access for sure.

 

[Sweettears]

Haven't read all 15 pages but from what I've skimmed no one has said all you need is to improve the Epcot backstage canal and a bridge/walk way over/under BVD and you could deliver people via boat to the present EP IG boat dock and to HS.

Having been reading along I believe that this has been suggested. The response was that the area where you would connect to the Epcot waterways is too important to the fireworks/barge operations and the boat maintenance facilities. Not saying those can't be relocated.

I like this concept though.

 

[LaidBackDad]

Haven't read all 15 pages but from what I've skimmed no one has said all you need is to improve the Epcot backstage canal and a bridge/walk way over/under BVD and you could deliver people via boat to the present EP IG boat dock and to HS.

I've been saying a canal into the park with a drop off at the IG but the backstage canal would work also.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

That's a long, interesting cruise...for sure. The one thing that would have to be addressed is the shielding from the backstage area...it's a real mess with disgruntled international programmers all over the place...

Lol...if you look on the google shot...you can see all the food and wine booths stacked behind Morocco...

The international gateway makes it far more intriguing...you could get to a lot of spots from back there...a long trip though.

 

[rteetz]

While boat or walkway would be a great selling point for these rooms. The current rumors suggest that Disney looked at plans for that but decided against them. We don't know why, it could be costs, it could be logistics, etc.

 

[Sweettears]

My bet is on some type of room arrangement not available elsewhere. Such as a suite with a view. This would not include direct park access but may have a tower lounge and maybe a better TS restaurant. I'm not a DVC member but I would pay extra for that. Maybe not deluxe level but certainly above current CBR rates. I avoid moderates because the comfort factor is a notch below a Hampton room. How much would it cost to put an arm chair with an ottoman in the room?

 

[Sweettears]

As I stated earlier Disney has priced a large segment out of reach of deluxe resorts. This could be their way of creating a new category. Semi deluxe?

Has it been determined that this is absolutely going to be DVC? It seems they don't build anything else but a non DVC room at $400 a night might not be a bad option in their minds.

Add a balcony and I'm in. Look what they're charging for the AoA suites.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

As I stated earlier Disney has priced a large segment out of reach of deluxe resorts. This could be their way of creating a new category. Semi deluxe?

Has it been determined that this is absolutely going to be DVC? It seems they don't build anything else but a non DVC room at $400 a night might not be a bad option in their minds.

Add a balcony and I'm in. Look what they're charging for the AoA suites.

This makes more sense to me as well...

We get a lot of "rumors" around here
With as much solid info in them as a balloon...

This idea "Caribbean...yep...gotta be dvc...location is spectacular"...still has as many holes in it as a hunk of baby Swiss...not convinced at all.

 

[DanBoris]

Haven't read all 15 pages but from what I've skimmed no one has suggested improve/widen the Epcot backstage canal and a bridge/walk way over/under BVD and you could deliver people via boat to the present EP IG boat dock or near the bridge between the Boardwalk and IG and they'd have to walk across to change boats there to get to HS.

I think there would be a lot of challenges there. That canal doesn't look wide enough for Friendship boats so would probably need to be widened. I am also not sure if it's deep enough, which would be even more work. Depending on where they connect to the canal they would have to replace 2 or 3 bridges which are currently not high enough. The trickiest part is that the canal doesn't actually connect to the water way where the IG is. The IG water way uses a water bridge to pass over Avenue of the Star and Epcot Resorts Blvd, it would be a tricky project to make the connection. None of this says it can't be done, but it wouldn't be cheap.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I think there would be a lot of challenges there. That canal doesn't look wide enough for Friendship boats so would probably need to be widened. I am also not sure if it's deep enough, which would be even more work. Depending on where they connect to the canal they would have to replace 2 or 3 bridges which are currently not high enough. The trickiest part is that the canal doesn't actually connect to the water way where the IG is. The IG water way uses a water bridge to pass over Avenue of the Star and Epcot Resorts Blvd, it would be a tricky project to make the connection. None of this says it can't be done, but it wouldn't be cheap.

View attachment 216360

This is one of the more interesting rumors to come down the pipe since I've been here...honestly.

Dvc there still makes no sense to me because honestly Caribbean is a poorly laid out and built property and that doesn't really fit.

"It's so close!!!"...that is the most deceiving stance ever. It's as landlocked/difficult to get in and out of as anywhere. What do they do with the park areas NOT attached by mythic canal? It consistently has the worst travel times to the other places. Think this unit is gonna have happy customers with a 50 minute to downtown? Which is on the same street? Or hour plus to magic kingdom?

Do you make a separate loop? That's overhead they want NO part of and problematic.

And as you said...you can look on the map behind Epcot and find water...but that doesn't mean it was prepped for passenger traffic. Think disney development corp is gonna be keen on $100 mil of infrastructure work to give a boat to one of their lesser units? Or will they say "nah...we're good...we'll BS them some other way"

I just know Caribbean. This isn't a good idea. And I'm such an "optimist" about the consumer - usually wrongly so - and I have to think at some point there won't be a line to buy cheap, low creativity repurposing/squeezed water from old rocks...

...like a dvc at the worst design/Moto lodge resembling property on site.

 

[LaidBackDad]

This is one of the more interesting rumors to come down the pipe since I've been here...honestly.

Dvc there still makes no sense to me because honestly Caribbean is a poorly laid out and built property and that doesn't really fit.

"It's so close!!!"...that is the most deceiving stance ever. It's as landlocked/difficult to get in and out of as anywhere. What do they do with the park areas NOT attached by mythic canal? It consistently has the worst travel times to the other places. Think this unit is gonna have happy customers with a 50 minute to downtown? Which is on the same street? Or hour plus to magic kingdom?

Do you make a separate loop? That's overhead they want NO part of and problematic.

And as you said...you can look on the map behind Epcot and find water...but that doesn't mean it was prepped for passenger traffic. Think disney development corp is gonna be keen on $100 mil of infrastructure work to give a boat to one of their lesser units? Or will they say "nah...we're good...we'll BS them some other way"

I just know Caribbean. This isn't a good idea. And I'm such an "optimist" about the consumer - usually wrongly so - and I have to think at some point there won't be a line to buy cheap, low creativity repurposing/squeezed water from old rocks...

...like a dvc at the worst design/Moto lodge resembling property on site.

I get what you are saying. We stayed at CBR on my first trip ever to WDW and we absolutely loved the place. That is, we loved it until we rented points on return trips and stayed at multiple DVC properties and we soon figured out how bad CBR really was. You have to believe they know how bad CBR is also. How do they fix it then, especially since it is in such a prime location? Do they level the whole property and start over? Of course not, way to expensive and a waste of some nice features CBR already has. If CBR was a vacant piece of land, what do you think they would build? Another moderate or value hotel or a DVC? I think that answer is obvious. To me, putting a DVC at CBR actually seems like a "cheap way" to kill 2 birds with 1 stone. You build a new deluxe resort which will be popular with the F&W demographic (big portion of DVC owners) and you squeeze more water/blood/money from old rocks/hotel rooms.

Of course none of that makes any sense to me if they don't fix the park access problem you're talking about. I know there is no permit for it yet and @rteetz says the rumor is dead; but, I have to believe this tower changes all of that. I can't understand why people think pushing a little dirt around by cutting a 1/4 mile canal or widening an existing one is "major" infrastructure changes. It really isn't and there have been a lot bigger projects completed around the swamp with a lot less return on investment.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Don't get me wrong...I'm not saying the construction project aspect is huge...I'm saying the bill will be and they shy away from that like the plague. That's why you can't trust it.

Look...a lot of construction going on now...but it's the first time in years and what they are producing bears a "cost cutting" approach more than we have ever really seen.

Lots of reductions/slashing...and long winded projects that underwhelm like springs and NFL.

They don't move mountians like they did when they built the original phase or Epcot. They won't pay for it.

So when I guess at $100 mil in infrastructure work - not a stretch at all at their costs - that's a deal killer. As in no second guessing...minor bus stop work and there you go...

 

[TheMaxRebo]

The more I think about what I think will be done is

- will be DVC as I can't imagine they take down existing rooms just to build new regular, non-DVC rooms
- Main feature will be a tower (or two) featuring views of EPCOT/World Showcase/Illuminations v2.0
- Will feature other Deluxe like elements (Table service restaurant, highly themed public areas and rooms, highly themed pool/splash area - even if not huge, etc.) - all dedicated to the DVC guests
- Will NOT have direct access to a park - they could do it but don't see them spending the money just for one resort
- Will have to have a dedicated Bus - can't just make this an 8th stop in the CBR bus loop
- Will feature studios for lowish point totals and suites for people that want to fit more people in a room - so value of points/person staying is relatively good
- cost per point will be similar to what they are charging now - though by the time they are finished per time value of money they will cost less, but can save face but not reducing in absolute dollars

Is this as attractive as the Poly or VGF to many? Probably not but if they others are sold out and the sales pitch is - get in now at the same cost as 2013 and need fewer points (maybe reduce the minimum number of points for initial purchase) to stay at this resort .... so in the end it is less cash out lay in total for people and you get a great view ... I think people will buy

Thinking: $165/point - but say 12 points / night at studio ... 16/night suite or something and do 84 point minimum so that gets you a week at this resort in a studio for <$14k

(I'm not expert at this so might be off in the numbers, but I think that is the concept .... $/point stays the same - slightly lower points per night but not that much - get people in that are interested in DVC but can't afford CGF, etc.) ... definitely makes these attractive during

 

[rteetz]

Main feature will be a tower (or two) featuring views of EPCOT/World Showcase/Illuminations v2.0

I think this is going to be one of their major selling points. If they don't do any sort of park access this is where they are going to hope people see that they can have theme park views. I've also heard of a top of the world type Lounge or restaurant being put on the top.

 

[Q-man]

I think there would be a lot of challenges there. That canal doesn't look wide enough for Friendship boats so would probably need to be widened. I am also not sure if it's deep enough, which would be even more work. Depending on where they connect to the canal they would have to replace 2 or 3 bridges which are currently not high enough. The trickiest part is that the canal doesn't actually connect to the water way where the IG is. The IG water way uses a water bridge to pass over Avenue of the Star and Epcot Resorts Blvd, it would be a tricky project to make the connection. None of this says it can't be done, but it wouldn't be cheap.

View attachment 216360

A dock behind France and then a pedestrian bridge over EP Resorts blvd to the Boardwalk/IG connection bridge is feasible. Well, feasible if you can figure how find the real estate to turn boats back around.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I think this is going to be one of their major selling points. If they don't do any sort of park access this is where they are going to hope people see that they can have theme park views. I've also heard of a top of the world type Lounge or restaurant being put on the top.

Are we doing this in a vacuum?

The CURRENT top of the world lounge isn't that popular!!!

And while I love a good view of Epcot...it's still gonna be over some service areas and that's a bit annoying.

Plus...a view is not enough to charge 175 a point at Caribbean. This is still not equating.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

A dock behind France and then a pedestrian bridge over EP Resorts blvd to the Boardwalk/IG connection bridge is feasible. Well, feasible if you can figure how find the real estate to turn boats back around.

That's square in an ugly service area with access roads filled with trucks all day.

Gotta think about this realistically.

 

[rteetz]

Are we doing this in a vacuum?

The CURRENT top of the world lounge isn't that popular!!!

And while I love a good view of Epcot...it's still gonna be over some service areas and that's a bit annoying.

Plus...a view is not enough to charge 175 a point at Caribbean. This is still not equating.

I'm just trying to think like Disney. I think Disney is hoping that a Lounge or restaurant at the top of this tower will be a selling point for people to buy in. I agree with you otherwise though.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I'm just trying to think like Disney. I think Disney is hoping that a Lounge or restaurant at the top of this tower will be a selling point for people to buy in. I agree with you otherwise though.

Thinking like disney...you'd remember that it's been an 8 year quest to fill the lounge...and people go for fireworks and leave without buying a thing...

No more sure way to tick them off than that...