Copper Creek Villas & Cabin Sales to Begin . . .

[LisaS]

There is a WL Fan Site that has a picture of a sign stating that both can use it.
http://www.wildernesslodgesite.com/content/hidden-springs-pool

I remember the sign you are thinking of, by the walkway, but I can't remember the exact wording.

It was a small dark brown wooden sign, maybe 12 inches wide. I tried to find a photo of it last night but no luck. Anyway, it appears that they changed the policy some time ago.

 

[alldiz]

It may not be for you and it may not be for me, but it will for someone and it really doesn't matter, all that matters is what is it priced and will they sell it. Effectively you're saying they can't sell it if it's not over the top, they sold SSR and are selling Aulani and Poly, they'll sell it no matter the situation. Now they might have to escalate their sales techniques at some point to do so but they haven't really done so yet. They'll play on it being newer, in the lodge instead of out back, longer life span, whatever differences there are whether we see them as plus or minus, etc. They would not have done this if they weren't certain they could sell it at todays prices and at a higher points level. It's been a while and I've gotten in trouble a couple of times with certain people when I said this, but IMO, VWL should have been LOWER points than BCV & BWV when one compares overall and it wasn't and it sold.

I hear ya, yes it will sell. I have to remember the most people do not know all the info that we do. They don't realize about resale and points dues etc. They just buy where the sales guy tell them.
FWIW....I'm happy to have some new amenities hopefully the bungalows won't be an eyesore. I guess I am happy they keep selling and prices go up because that is good for all of us in the end.
Kerri

 

[_auroraborealis_]

I think comparing this to Kidani-Jambo is a false equivalency. They were always planned as one condo association. The Jambo conversion occurred primarily to get sales started earlier.

There are 20 years between VWL and CCV.

 

[Dean]

I think comparing this to Kidani-Jambo is a false equivalency. They were always planned as one condo association. The Jambo conversion occurred primarily to get sales started earlier.

There are 20 years between VWL and CCV.

Plus an owner has direct access to both options no matter where they actually own.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

Plus an owner has direct access to both options no matter where they actually own.

Aside from them actually being booking categories, Kidani v. Jambo is more like "your contract's unit ownership is in Moorea but they put you in a room in Pago Pago" than it is for VWL or CCV.

No one at VWL has ownership interest at CCV at inception. They can buy in.

 

[alldiz]

Aside from them actually being booking categories, Kidani v. Jambo is more like "your contract's unit ownership is in Moorea but they put you in a room in Pago Pago" than it is for VWL or CCV.

No one at VWL has ownership interest at CCV at inception. They can buy in.

No I get it I made that comparison because if Jambo and Kidani had been 2 DVC...almost makes more sense. IMO Jambo is much more desirable.....and Kidani is a lot further than "WLV" will be. Just seems weird to build new DVC on existing property....and then just change names.
Maybe "WLV" will be red headed step child LOL. And I see how the extra years has a draw but...hey to each is own which is why DVC is so great so many choices

 

[Dean Marino]

Now - a warning.....

We own at VWL. Yes, it's been renamed. But as the NEW CCV comes on line? We must be VERY careful to note:

1) ABANDONMENT of BRV Maintenance.
2) Any attempt to transfer construction costs of CCV to BRV.
3) Attempted redirection of existing resources assigned to our contracts without compensation (see "property description").

Bottom line: DO NOT ATTEMPT TO UNILATERALLY FOOL WITH THE CONTRACT. Honor it, don't try to play games - all will be well.
Violate the contract? Class Action.

 

[thebigman65]

Now - a warning.....

We own at VWL. Yes, it's been renamed. But as the NEW CCV comes on line? We must be VERY careful to note:

1) ABANDONMENT of BRV Maintenance.
2) Any attempt to transfer construction costs of CCV to BRV.
3) Attempted redirection of existing resources assigned to our contracts without compensation (see "property description").

Bottom line: DO NOT ATTEMPT TO UNILATERALLY FOOL WITH THE CONTRACT. Honor it, don't try to play games - all will be well.
Violate the contract? Class Action.

Really.....has this ever happened before?....I would think Disney knows its contracts and would be very careful with this....not sure this should be a concern.....

 

[Dean]

Now - a warning.....

We own at VWL. Yes, it's been renamed. But as the NEW CCV comes on line? We must be VERY careful to note:

1) ABANDONMENT of BRV Maintenance.
2) Any attempt to transfer construction costs of CCV to BRV.
3) Attempted redirection of existing resources assigned to our contracts without compensation (see "property description").

Bottom line: DO NOT ATTEMPT TO UNILATERALLY FOOL WITH THE CONTRACT. Honor it, don't try to play games - all will be well.
Violate the contract? Class Action.

It could happen but it's unlikely and if it does, it's unlikely we'd be able to figure it out. One could already argue they're falling down on maintenance, no class action as of yet. The OKW transition will be an interesting one in this regard though.

 

[disneynutz]

Really.....has this ever happened before?....I would think Disney knows its contracts and would be very careful with this....not sure this should be a concern.....

They may be careful but mistakes happen, poor management happens, and sometimes greed happens. Plenty of big companies have been caught doing things that they shouldn't, to think that it will never happen here is like us sticking our heads in the sand. The Aulani dues mess proves that things can happen that shouldn't.

The problem is that how and why they set rates and how it is tracked and audited isn't published info so we will never know.

Bill

 

[DebbieB]

No I get it I made that comparison because if Jambo and Kidani had been 2 DVC...almost makes more sense. IMO Jambo is much more desirable.....and Kidani is a lot further than "WLV" will be. Just seems weird to build new DVC on existing property....and then just change names.
Maybe "WLV" will be red headed step child LOL. And I see how the extra years has a draw but...hey to each is own which is why DVC is so great so many choices

That is a matter of opinion. I think Kidani is more desirable, especially 1 bedrooms or larger. Parking is more convenient, you can hop on a elevator and go straight to parking, 1 bedrooms and larger have an extra bathroom and the rooms are larger. Views from lower floors are better, Jambo is 5 and 6 only for DVC. Jambo gets the nod for quick service and larger lobby.

 

[thebigman65]

They may be careful but mistakes happen, poor management happens, and sometimes greed happens. Plenty of big companies have been caught doing things that they shouldn't, to think that it will never happen here is like us sticking our heads in the sand. The Aulani dues mess proves that things can happen that shouldn't.

The problem is that how and why they set rates and how it is tracked and audited isn't published info so we will never know.

Bill

All good points Bill.....I guess to think it couldn't happen is kind of nieve.....I just would think Disney, being so focused on it reputation, would never let that happen due to all the bad press it would generate.....but Aulani certainly proved they can get it really wrong sometimes!

 

[alldiz]

They may be careful but mistakes happen, poor management happens, and sometimes greed happens. Plenty of big companies have been caught doing things that they shouldn't, to think that it will never happen here is like us sticking our heads in the sand. The Aulani dues mess proves that things can happen that shouldn't.

The problem is that how and why they set rates and how it is tracked and audited isn't published info so we will never know.

Bill

All good points Bill.....I guess to think it couldn't happen is kind of nieve.....I just would think Disney, being so focused on it reputation, would never let that happen due to all the bad press it would generate.....but Aulani certainly proved they can get it really wrong sometimes!

What happened with Aulani?
Thanks
Kerri

 

[_auroraborealis_]

What happened with Aulani?

In 2011, Disney had to halt sales at Aulani because of issues with dues calculation. Dues amounts were set so low that they would not generate enough money to cover the cost of maintaining Aulani, and these amounts were what were listed in legal disclosures to the Hawaiian government. Who were NOT amused.

They fired several execs over it. Disney claim it was a mistake, but who knows if it was a mistake or deliberate. It would have been messy later with the dues increases, though.

They eventually raised the dues a full third before they started selling again. People who bought before suspension are the source of any subsidized contracts you see on the market, as they essentially got grandfathered in.

 

[alldiz]

In 2011, Disney had to halt sales at Aulani because of issues with dues calculation. Dues amounts were set so low that they would not generate enough money to cover the cost of maintaining Aulani, and these amounts were what were listed in legal disclosures to the Hawaiian government. Who were NOT amused.

They fired several execs over it. Disney claim it was a mistake, but who knows if it was a mistake or deliberate. It would have been messy later with the dues increases, though.

They eventually raised the dues a full third before they started selling again. People who bought before suspension are the source of any subsidized contracts you see on the market, as they essentially got grandfathered in.

WOW.....I don't know how I missed that one.
Been out of the loop little while and when I came back WLV changed names LOL!!
Now I just look at timeshare store to see current resale prices and I notice the dues pricing
Maybe "WLV" owners are paying for Copper Creek. Why is "WLV" dues so high they seem to be highest on property besides AKV.
Has their increases outpaced other resorts.
Thanks
Kerri

 

[alldiz]

That is a matter of opinion. I think Kidani is more desirable, especially 1 bedrooms or larger. Parking is more convenient, you can hop on a elevator and go straight to parking, 1 bedrooms and larger have an extra bathroom and the rooms are larger. Views from lower floors are better, Jambo is 5 and 6 only for DVC. Jambo gets the nod for quick service and larger lobby.

I did love Kidani unfortunately I literally had next to last room. I don't rent a car so didn't realize parking perk.
Pool was beautiful and your right about that 2nd bathroom is amazing.
kerri

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

I recall at one time there was a sign at the entrance to Hidden Springs pool (when walking over from the main pool) indicating that it was for villa guests only. I haven't stayed at VWL for a few years so perhaps the policy was changed and the sign was removed?

Given that who pays for which pool(s) is something that is covered in the legal documents, a change to allow all guests to use the villas pool would require a change to the cost sharing arrangements, assuming that Hidden Springs was originally for villa guests only. Anyone else remember that sign?

I don't know about the sign but we stayed at WL in Sept 2005 and when we asked were told both pools were available for hotel guests. VWL was reopened for sales at that time.

 

[viper17d]

We sent an email today to our DVC sales contact - he replied very quickly that we were added to the list and to expect to hear from him "sooner than later".

I read that as "within the next month" - but either way, it shouldn't be long now. I'd be surprised if something isn't announced by the end of February - I bet they'd love to show a month of pre-sales in their 1Q17 results.

 

[DizptchrAJ]

Right now for someone new into DVC, if they are going to buy direct their only choice is Poly if they want points right away ( if they dont realize they can ask Disney to look for points at another resort.) Now those people can choose Poly or CCV. Those will be the people that buy is my guess. Or those that just want the next best thing. (nothing wrong with that).
People are still taking DVC tours everyday and are still signing before they leave from that vacation.
I have family members that despite our advice to go home, sleep on it and think about other all their options, jumped at the Poly direct contract (BC disney told them "As a bonus we'll give you last years points")

 

[viper17d]

Right now for someone new into DVC, if they are going to buy direct their only choice is Poly if they want points right away ( if they dont realize they can ask Disney to look for points at another resort.) Now those people can choose Poly or CCV. Those will be the people that buy is my guess. Or those that just want the next best thing. (nothing wrong with that).
People are still taking DVC tours everyday and are still signing before they leave from that vacation.
I have family members that despite our advice to go home, sleep on it and think about other all their options, jumped at the Poly direct contract (BC disney told them "As a bonus we'll give you last years points")

Yeah, generally for most people buying direct initially isn't the most "cost effective" choice. That isn't to say it's wrong, because there are reasons to buy direct - primarily if that is THE resort you want to own and stay at most often (rule #1: buy where you want to stay). Poly and CCV, for instance, will not have great resale alternatives yet - buying direct will get you those resorts with long contracts - you'll close quickly and get the "DVC perks".

Where it really doesn't make a ton of sense as a first purchase is if you are buying waitlisted points with much shorter contracts. For instance, we bought 150 VWL points last year (our first purchase and through resale) - we saved more than 50% on the waitlist price. That kind of a discount can't be made up with the "DVC perks", especially with the shorter contract.

Now, we are planning to add on with CCV in the range of 50 points. This gets us the perks, gets us a piece of the "new" WL resort, and gives us a longer contract (helping justify the direct premium).

Most people on here agree to buy most of your points in resale and a smaller number direct (if you want the perks). The key thing is to think about your decision, but where you want to stay, and not get rushed into something.