Rental Rates/Concerns

[PamOKW]

I can't but wonder if the concept of 'renting' was in part just a means of allowing members to legally charge for renting rooms to their family, friends and acquaintances

This was my understanding of the renting privilege in our agreement. I felt the "no commercial use" would prevent people from advertising in the classifieds to outside renters. I've since come the realization that this was a misunderstanding on my part. Of course, now the ease of commerce on the Internet has made renting to anyone an inexpensive enterprise. The kindness of Pete Werner in setting up the rent board on this site is a major contributor to that ease. I think Pete's original intention was to have a "swap" board for members to use but this, too, has turned into something different.

I don't like the idea of large scale for profit rentals. I think that throws an unnatural flow into the use of the resorts and could impact the way the system works. Unfortunately, there doesn't appear to be a way to put a stop to small scale rentals without either stepping on legal grounds or impacting the ability to let friends and relatives use accomodations when we are not there.

I would hope that DVC would crack down on any true rental business. There should not be any "DVC's R Us" operations.

I see and share Rich's frustration in people tying up dates for potential rental but there is no "real" difference in booking those dates versus booking multiple dates for personal use. The only concern I have is, once again, that it's not a natural use of points by individuals but there is no way for DVC to make that distinction.

[CarolMN]

You are wrong. I don't have a link to the occupany rates, but we have seen them here and you are wrong.

You and I will just have to disagree on this - for all of the reasons so eloquently posted by DOC. FWIW, I have not "seen them here". Please post a link if you can. Would love to see data on occupancy rates.

I'd cheerfully admit being wrong (wouldn't be the first time), but in the absence of data, I will continue to believe most people prefer to have at least one weekend in their trips. That's true even of DVC members, including you (based on what you have posted about your vacations) The main reason members say they avoid weekends is the higher point cost. Since weekends do not cost more through CRO, I have got to believe that almost every trip booked by the cash paying public includes at least one weekend.

As I've posted before, I do not rent out points and do not anticipate ever wanting to do so in the future. Legalities aside (renting is allowed by our contract), I do not want DVC to institute any administrative procedures to "control" renting because I believe it will be costly, generate multiple member complaints and ultimately result in increased dues.

In short, I believe that any problems that may or may not be generated by those who rent are smaller than the cost of "enforcement". For me, it's a matter of proportion.

[ClarabelleCow]

Being a new member and a previous renter, the only problem with renting that I see is the people that book the room in hopes of someone wanting that time and puts it for sale on E-Bay. I think its totaly different if someone puts up X amount of points available for rent, gets a renter and then books a room. To me that is fine, but for the person that continually books 5 night stays and puts them on E-Bay I think that is an abuse of the system, and a dis-service to Members that can't get time because someone may or may not use the room.

[PamOKW]

Clarabelle - I agree 100% with you. Trying to pick desireable dates to hold for rental is what irks me. There's always someone out to "beat the system" and that is one way to do it.

[Synonymous]

I bought into the concept that I was going to be part of a DVC "family" and figured that others around me at DVC would be part of that family

This is the heart of the problem- too many DVC owners think we're part of some "exclusive" club and inherently better than anyone who isn't part of it. This is why people have a problem with renters.

Wake up, folks- 70,000 owners is not a "family," it's the general public. We don't even really "own" anything, at best we have a long-term lease, more accurately, we have some kind of license to occupy hotel space. And guess what, the terms of our contract provide that the unwashed masses have every right to plunk down money and stay in "our" precious resorts, either through CRO or through rentals.

The last I checked, "immorality" is not defined as "anything that inconveniences Richyams." A contract is a legal relationship, not a moral one. I'd think anyone professing to believe in the free enterprise system would at least understand that.

[KNWVIKING]

Funny, I've never read any comments like this, at least not on this board.

[Synonymous]

I have, of course, paraphrased.

[KNWVIKING]

Even the attitude your trying to paraphrase... I've never gotten any impression like that from this board. Rentee's are not the issue, don't think they ever have been, it's renters that get all the flames.

[CaptainMidnight]

Originally posted by PamOKW
.... Trying to pick desireable dates to hold for rental is what irks me. There's always someone out to "beat the system" and that is one way to do it.

Agreed. This is not in member's best interest in thier use of pointd for a family vacation. Those engaging in such practices need to recognize the detrimental effect wide-spread adoption of this approach will have on members. Through some interpretations, regular rental of points, without the intention of using them for personal family vacations can be considered a private business and commercial use and fall outside permisible guidelines of the contract.

The statement, there's always someone out to "beat the system" ..... seems to have some validity.

"they don't want "commoners" contaminating "our" exclusive playground."

This is certainly an unfair and untrue characterization of any of the posts I've read. This kind of mischaracterization seems as bad as the labels the poster is trying to attach to others.

[Jen D]

This thread has been relatively mild. I'm still reeling from a thread about a year ago that said the rentees were "leeches" and they didn't want them in the "DVC Family."

It does seem people take the "Club" part of Disney Vacation Club a little too much to heart.

[Mouse Ears]

Two comments:

First, I see Rich's point about the inequity of holding reservations that you have no intent of using. This may not be against the rules and it may be done within the normal reservation method, but it is inconsiderate of other members (and even other renters). Many of us recognize that the world is a better place for all if we all consider the preciousness of others. I, for one, will continue to return my shopping cart to its designated space so that the next guy doesn't get blocked from a parking spot or get dinged from a runaway cart. It is a matter of courtesy that may not be legally required, but is an act of kindness and humility. That said, I'm sure that some of my 'habits' are reprehensible to others, but I do at least try. Like any community, DVC will have its kind and considerate group and its self-absorbed contingency too. We can't legislate kindness unfortunately.

Second, many have pointed out that there is an emphasis on busy times and weekdays. If this is true, then the problem exists in the point schedules. They should balance the demand for the different seasons and times of the week. If the point differences don't adequately account for the perceived value difference of the majority of owners/renters, then they are not balanced correctly. I would be in favor of redistributing points if it would equalize the demand and discourage reservation squating and peak-season renting. But, I am not convinced that this is a problem based on this thread. We could be just seeing the cases that support this conclusion.

Banter on...

[JOC]

Where's Arny today???

P.S. I thought this thread could use a little humor right about now!

[disneyberry]

Originally posted by Jen D
This thread has been relatively mild. I'm still reeling from a thread about a year ago that said the rentees were "leeches" and they didn't want them in the "DVC Family."

"leeches" yikes!!! that goes right up there with the "studio trash" name-calling.

sorry, i'm still cracking up at how ridiculous the didn't want them in the "DVC Family" thing is... oh, the absurd snobbery...

(btw, can you tell i just found the smilie's website? heh)

[anniet]

A few months ago I was referred to as "Middle income with low standards" on this board.

Now I'm an elitist snob who doesn't want the unwashed masses at our precious resorts.

(funny I didn't think I was typing anything close to that, but whatever)

[GAIL HAYDEN]

This is the heart of the problem- too many DVC owners think we're part of some "exclusive" club and inherently better than anyone who isn't part of it. This is why people have a problem with renters.

It is the impression Disney gives any potential buyer/member.
We don't think we are better than anyone that is not a part of it, but, we were given the impression of "belonging".

Silver Creek, NY, near the Native American reservation, per chance?