DVC RESALES
DVC RESALES

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Old 03-29-2003, 07:19 PM   #136
brucec32
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Webmaster Doc,

It sounds like you have the values set of the stereotypical lawyer. Are you a lawyer?

People don't generally despise and distrust them for no reason. I won't take them on as customers in my business, nor will many people I know, because of their attitude of trying to skate by on legal technicalities rather than a spirit of cooperation and consideration for fellow humans. As any judge who has to decide legal disputes would tell you, you can't put everything in black and white. Sometimes it's assumed that the parties involved will have to actually behave like decent human beings.

An "I can do anything I darn well please" attitude seems like it would lead only to a life of lonliness, since most people don't want to deal with that.

I think all these people were asking for was a little reasonable consideration for others when making reservations. How hard is that?
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Old 03-29-2003, 07:21 PM   #137
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Quote:
From reading some of the posts, it appears to me that some people can book "hot" holiday weeks far out with no intention of using them, then sell the weeks to others for cash. I would assume a week booked over Christmas/New Years might be worth a pretty penny. Is this a problem that is affecting members' ability to book legitimately during those weeks?
This is really the crux of this thread is about, not renting in general. There are some who have chosen to use their points for as a commercial venture to the determint of other owners. Our contract specifically forbids commercial use, but I don't think anyone here knows how wide spread this is.

BTW, to me commerical venture is renting points out as a business operation and trying to make a profit. Not a boss giving vacations to his/her staff or even renting points to the staff. I only wish my boss were that generous! Mine wanted me to reschedule surgery to have a large tumor removed so I could attend a training class! (I didn't reschedule)
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Old 03-29-2003, 07:25 PM   #138
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Re: Doc....

Quote:
Originally posted by KNWVIKING

If I,or anyone, wish to let friends,families,employees,whoever, use my points, that's great. But I would never do it in a manner that would be rude to others. I also would not book multiple units for the same dates knowing full well I going to cancel the ones I don't want or need. That is rude to other members.
Please then define what is "rude to others". Please be specific, so we can all understand exactly what behavior constitutes rude behavior by other members. Please also suggest how MS can control this behavior and discern it from honest, acceptable behavior.

For some, it apparently means making more than one reservation. Others have expressed that it means reserving weekdays. You seem offended by one-day reservations. Others have expressed how the personal habits of others may be considered rude. It would seem that we all may have a personal definition that extends far beyond the limitations provided within our ownership.
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Old 03-29-2003, 07:25 PM   #139
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Man, does Rich know how to start an argument or does he?

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Old 03-29-2003, 07:27 PM   #140
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I think he did it on purpose!! We haven't had anything this interesting in a while!
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Old 03-29-2003, 07:44 PM   #141
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Doc...

No contract I signed will ever justify being rude or inconsiderate to other members. I am accountable to my fellow members just the same as I'm accountable to my family,friends and co-workers.

I went back and read your post about booking for your employees and then having to cancel last minute. I have no problem whatsoever with this because you never intended to cancel, your motives were pure. But the OT deals with a member tying up two units,for the same date, knowing full well one will be canceled as soon as the rentee makes up their mind. You don't have a problem with that ? What if that ressie was made 5 minutes before you got thru to MS and now your on the waitlist- hoping you get it,wondering if you should buy flight tickets, put your name done on the vacation list at work,etc. Maybe "rude" isn't the best word to use. What would your adjective be ?

And if you want to make 100 one day ressies,knock yourself out, its your choice-because we all have the same video that says we can. But you know that's not what I was talking about in the example I posted.
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Old 03-29-2003, 07:49 PM   #142
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Oh man this is good and to be honest I make atleast 3 ressies in a use year that I am not going to be going myself and post them on E bay why because you don't get enough money for them posting them on this board most people are only willing to pay 10 dollars a point on E bay you get upwards of 20 to 25 dollars a point from people sometimes more. So I will continue to do so until I can get to the point where I can go every year or figure I have a trip coming up that I am taking enough people that I need to book using all my points plus having to bank or borrow points. Plus this has also helped me to pay a substantial ammount of my loan to Disney off so it has benefited me in that I now owe them half what I did 2 years ago. I really don't see any problem in this renting and holding rooms they are as stated after all OUR POINTS.
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Old 03-29-2003, 08:02 PM   #143
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Quote:
I don't read an explicit guarantee of commercial DVC point rental.
In fact, in several places in bold face type it cautions against the assumption that you would be able to rent when facing the vast marketing skills of the WDW resort.

This is a tough arguement and, unfortunately, I don't think there is a solution beyond a hope that personal use continues to outweigh people using points as a source of income.

I don't see anything wrong with the way that Doc is using his points. He is booking trips for friends/employees which is still personal use. It's also a natural use of the system to book a vacation at your home resort and then make a change when the 7 month window opens. It even makes sense to book a vacation you plan to take and then make a change if you find that won't be a good time to go.

I don't even think that people who find themselves with extra points one year who sell them as a rental are that much of a concern. It's when desire to make a profit becomes the motivation in selecting the weeks and accomodations to book that problems can set in.

Where is Rich? He started this "lively debate"
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Old 03-29-2003, 08:02 PM   #144
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DSNY FN

When you made those ressies, were you doing so with the intention of only using/renting one and cancelling the others ?

That's the point of this thread.
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Old 03-29-2003, 08:14 PM   #145
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Wow, there goes that "family " feeling out the window again. I think I'll go listen to my " Circle of Life " Cd.



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Old 03-29-2003, 08:14 PM   #146
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Quote:
Originally posted by brucec32
Webmaster Doc,
It sounds like you have the values set of the stereotypical lawyer. Are you a lawyer?
LOL! Another insult? I've been called a lot of names, but lawyer is a new one!

No, I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV. I'm a lowly dentist who truly loves the program Disney created called DVC.

The issue, as I see it, is that while I would have preferred a handshake-and-a-smile to purchase into DVC, Disney insisted on a detailed legal document which outlines all of the aspects of the programs and also protects them from a legal standpoint. Some of the details are required by law to explain the mechansisms involved- this allows them to sell their "product" in many different states.

In this document are many ambiguous (probably intentionally) concepts, which forces us to provide our own interpretation as to the meaning. These concepts include things like renting and occupancy, but there are many others. Some are subject to change and that change is spelled out in the contract itself and some are fixed by the terms of the contract (reallocation of points, dues increases, etc.)

There are also many concepts that are specifically outlined, such as how reservations may be made, cancellation policies, banking deadlines, etc. Even some of these concepts have "loopholes" provided by DVC to extend courtesy to members. ("Secret-one-time-banking-exceptions")

The problem with an internet discussion board regarding these concepts, is that we may each have our own personal vision of what they entail- regardless how they are handled by Disney or DVC. Some are of the opinion that any rental is prohibited (or should be), others find that rental activity above a certain threshhold is commercial rental (and therfore not allowed), others now suggest that certain reservation patterns are not fair to other members. Some feel that rental fees are too low- others feel they are too high. All the while, the only body able to evaluate and enforce these concepts remains silent (at least on this board) and that body is Disney itself.

While we are aware that DVC does monitor some discussion on this site, they have never openly participated. We are also aware that some policies have been at least reviewed, if not modified, after discussion here.

At times, examples of things some consider objectionable behavior are cited to explain a position- even though the example may be well within the rules provided by Disney. At other times, we try to suggest ethical behavior when it is already allowed in Disney's rules. We often feel a sense of community and lash out when the very rules designed to protect our own rights seem to violate those rights- yet the same circumstance serves to protect another member's rights even to our own detriment. Reservation policy may be an example of this.

Bottom line is that Disney has the final say in what is allowable within the confines of our membership and we can only hope that they are able to protect our individual rights within those confines.

Enjoy!
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Old 03-29-2003, 08:25 PM   #147
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I put specific limitations on time periods for money to be exchanged and sometimes I rent all 3 and other times I rent only one then return the others ie cancel them. So to answer your question I will rent all 3 if I get renters if not I rent the ones that people want and cancel the ones that I don't get rid of on e bay
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Old 03-29-2003, 08:26 PM   #148
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This thread would make a good poll.

Although I think having the freedom to use my points is a great option, I am not one that was ever for renting, Disney or otherwise.

I think it distracts from the integrity of the DVC. I would like to see exclusivity within the DVC resorts on Disney property.
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Old 03-29-2003, 08:41 PM   #149
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"Since I have posted on this very board that I have sent MY staff to WDW on several occasions, I assume this is directed at me personally... "

A bit conceited...

I wonder if he ever goes to a football game? He probably thinks that the players in the huddle are talking about him.


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Old 03-29-2003, 08:44 PM   #150
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Quote:
You have no more right to be upset with how I make reservations than I have to be upset with your reservation habits.
I'm not upset with how you use your points. I do not agree when you aren't more realistic of how the example of having sets of 100 one day studio reservations which would blocking several vacations weeks every year would reduce availability during prime season wouldn't be in the majority of members best interest, or DVC's best interest, even though it would technically be allowed in the contract. I dissagree when you claim that kind of disruptive reservation pattern is "spiritually" OK, but it's moot, nobody does that anyway. It's an example taken to extreme of a detrimental reservation pattern, although it should have also included that the 100 rooms were for commercial rental use sold on e-bay. Doesn't matter, doesn't happen anyway.

KNWVIKING, if I've missrepresented your intent in your post by taking the example to a larger extreme, my apology. I thought you had a pretty good point, and that the way I read what you wrote, I thought it was being missrepresented when Doc was describing the reasons why he was offended. I'll let the two of you take that on.

"doing so with the intention of only using/renting one and cancelling the others" is the problem being discussed, sorry to get it off track.

Doc, your the 600 pound guerrilla around here, it's your playing field. I'm just glad to be able to visit and talk about DVC. I've never rented my points out, but perhaps I might need to in the future.

Last edited by CaptainMidnight; 03-29-2003 at 11:20 PM.
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