DVC RESALES
DVC RESALES

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Old 04-22-2014, 05:08 PM   #16
HokieGCC
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Possibly barely...

If you are accurate with your purchase based on your needs/wants it is likely that DVC is barely a better deal. The rules of thumb are good guides:
- Stay only in Deluxe (if Moderates are what you want skip DVC)
- Visit once per year
- Can plan way ahead (11 months)
- Don't finance DVC
- Buy resale

If you do it right your break even point will be in the 8-10 year range.

So, if you know exactly what you want and are certain about it, then it will be an okay deal. Otherwise, no.
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Old 04-22-2014, 06:07 PM   #17
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I have committed the ultimate DVC sin and purchased 210 points at AKV...that's right bought them direct from Disney in 2009 and paid $93 per point with the incentives offered at that time. DH and I also financed the points...the horror...For various reasons this worked for us. We have used every single point and so far have rented over 10 studios for a week or longer. It was what we wanted to do and Disney is the only place we really travel. Yes, we have been other places but for us Disney is our happy place where we relax the most.

I simply wanted nicer accommodations after going every year since 2002. I would definitely rent points at BLT and stay there before I made a direct or resale purchase. We had one night at BLT 10/31/13 and while the studio was clean and the view fantastic...the decor was just sterile for us. We just weren't comfortable there...it is important that you are sure about the investment. I can't tell you the relief we felt driving up to AKV. Each resort is beautiful in its own way but I am going to be happy there for the price I paid. I wish the best for you and stay on here and read, read and read some more. Another good site for info is DVCNews.com and you can contact David's Rentals who specializes in renting points and is a sponsor of the boards.

We didn't know about renting before our purchase and luckily purchased at our favorite.
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Old 04-22-2014, 06:19 PM   #18
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If you go every year and want nice accommodations then you should definitely buy. If you don't mind staying in value then I would not buy. Our family loved going every year and we get excited soon as some warm weather comes around. But we were going to Disney almost every year before our kids and plan on going even if they don't go.
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Old 04-22-2014, 07:03 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HokieGCC View Post
If you are accurate with your purchase based on your needs/wants it is likely that DVC is barely a better deal. The rules of thumb are good guides:
- Stay only in Deluxe (if Moderates are what you want skip DVC)
- Visit once per year
- Can plan way ahead (11 months)
- Don't finance DVC
- Buy resale

If you do it right your break even point will be in the 8-10 year range.
I've read time and again that DVC is only for people who stay in the Deluxe Hotels and you will break even at a certain number of years. I see this differently. I would appreciate comments on what I'm writing below.

Disney has raised the prices of the moderate hotels so much lately that they are now nearly double of the equivalent yearly dues for a studio at Bay Lake (where I just bought). I usually stay at Moderates, and doing this math is what finally convinced me to buy. So I can now stay at a studio at Bay Lake for just a little more than half the price of a room at Port Orleans.

I'm not counting the initial price of the contract here. The reason for this is that the contract can always be sold and most (if not all) of the resale purchase price will most probably be recovered.

What am I missing here?
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Old 04-22-2014, 07:17 PM   #20
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I've read time and again that DVC is only for people who stay in the Deluxe Hotels and you will break even at a certain number of years. I see this differently. I would appreciate comments on what I'm writing below. Disney has raised the prices of the moderate hotels so much lately that they are now nearly double of the equivalent yearly dues for a studio at Bay Lake (where I just bought). I usually stay at Moderates, and doing this math is what finally convinced me to buy. So I can now stay at a studio at Bay Lake for just a little more than half the price of a room at Port Orleans. I'm not counting the initial price of the contract here. The reason for this is that the contract can always be sold and most (if not all) of the resale purchase price will most probably be recovered. What am I missing here?
You're missing that the contract will be worth zero at its' end, and the time value of money if you do sell before then. This accounts for the fact that if you sell in twenty years, even for "more per point" than your buy-in, it's still less in inflation-adjusted real dollars.

That said, your basic premise is correct. DVC is still a good deal over staying deluxe or moderate. It's just a question of how much of a premium you place in staying "on property." Because neither is anywhere near a good deal versus many offsite locations that can be nicer and much less expensive. But offsite is a different vacation experience. No way around that.

There's also the stipulation of whether you purchased direct or resale, at least for BLT. For that specific property, resale is currently trending $70 or more below direct pricing. But yes, if you purchased BLT resale, it seems likely the resale market won't fall much from current pricing without some unforeseen major economic event.
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Old 04-22-2014, 07:43 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by MouseyMin View Post
I'm not counting the initial price of the contract here. The reason for this is that the contract can always be sold and most (if not all) of the resale purchase price will most probably be recovered.

What am I missing here?
You aren't missing anything. In fact I feel the same way recouping the initial price, something that tends to get overlooked, especially if one buys resale.

I'm also a person who thinks there is value in actually using our points. In my opinion a DVC resort is a huge upgrade over a regular Disney hotel room. DVC changed the way we vacation. We spend more time at the resorts and less time at the parks.
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Old 04-22-2014, 08:31 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by MouseyMin View Post

I'm not counting the initial price of the contract here. The reason for this is that the contract can always be sold and most (if not all) of the resale purchase price will most probably be recovered.

What am I missing here?
That people who bought in 2007 or 2008 either resale or direct, then lost their jobs in 2009 and sold in late 2009 lost their shirts - they didn't collect nearly most of their purchase price - if they'd recently bought direct they didn't manage to get half their original purchase after paying commissions. For those that financed, the penalty was really steep - they had very little equity and often had to come up with money just to unload the contract and the payments. No fault of their own - bad timing in buying at the height of the market just before a major recession.

Never assume you'll get anything for your contract. Because all it takes is for a terrorist attack, or a recession, or a large and permanent increase in gas prices (and airfare) to see your value shrink considerably.
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Old 04-22-2014, 09:21 PM   #23
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Mousesavers has a great section on this topic. They run the numbers, and tell you when you'd break even if you go every year. They also discuss the opportunity cost, something that most people don't think about. You also have to consider that your life in 30 years may not be the same as it is now, and whether you really want that kind of commitment. I think that unless you are so rich that the cost is 'throw away' money, then it is not worth it. Of course, if I was rich enough that I could just throw around that kind of money, I'd be staying in Suites, not DVC. :>
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Old 04-22-2014, 09:33 PM   #24
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That people who bought in 2007 or 2008 either resale or direct, then lost their jobs in 2009 and sold in late 2009 lost their shirts - they didn't collect nearly most of their purchase price - if they'd recently bought direct they didn't manage to get half their original purchase after paying commissions. For those that financed, the penalty was really steep - they had very little equity and often had to come up with money just to unload the contract and the payments. No fault of their own - bad timing in buying at the height of the market just before a major recession.
Much like the housing market when that bubble burst. I know of people who are still upside down on their homes and we live in a stable area that wasn't hurt as badly as most places. Some of these people have since divorced or had to move for work and can't get enough out of their houses to pay off the note. Then there are the people who lost 40% of their savings and pensions when the stock market crashed who are still trying to recoup. This is life, stuff happens.

DVC is a luxury purchase. Going on a Disney vacation every year is a luxury, although to some people it's a "necessity". You are the only one that can calculate how much risk you are willing to take for many years of future vacations.
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Old 04-22-2014, 10:39 PM   #25
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Maybe it's me and I know things change but here's how I looked at it. I paid cash for my 203 VWL points. 3 different contracts at approx $70 a point for a grand total of $14000 give or take about $500, on the secondary market. I plan, God willing, to own my points until 2042, when the contract ends. That works out to about $450 (these really are round numbers for the sake of the argument but close enough) for the cost of my points a year. Now it's $1200 a year for maintenance. My husband and I usually average 2 times a years in a studio for a grand total of 14 days. When you add the maint and the cost of the points that works out to about $116 a day. For me that is worth it. If God brings me home earlier then my plan well then my kids are in luck. I'll be 78 in 2042 it's a good plan for me lol.
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Old 04-23-2014, 08:25 AM   #26
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What am I missing here?
I think dismissing the initial cost of the contract - typically $10K - $20K - as totally a refundable investment isn't realistic for most people. If it is for you, that's great, but for many of us, that's a big chunk of change that we really have other more immediate uses for.

I considered that money as a loss leader. Part of why we bought DVC is we decided we want to be going to Disney well past our child growing up, well into retirement. Short term, that initial investment is a "bad" investment, When I average that initial cost over 10 years, our trips are going to cost more until we can pay that off, but long-term, to allow us to take Disney vacations 15+ years from now for MUCH less than it would cost otherwise, it is worth it.

That said, every person has to factor things their own way. The way that makes "sense" to them. Your opinion is not wrong, but it's not the way I would look at things.
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Old 04-23-2014, 08:40 AM   #27
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You need to really look at what DVC gives you, how often you vacation at Disney now, if you will be happy staying at a timeshare which is different than a hotel room, if the DVC policies, rules, and customer service is acceptable to you, and finally what it will cost.

We sold some AKV contracts a few years ago at $10,000 less than what we paid for them. Disney exercising ROFR, the economy, and the number of owners selling will dictate the price. If more owners sell, the prices will go down, supply and demand.

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Old 04-23-2014, 11:02 AM   #28
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I would only feel safe buying direct.So my thing is I want someone to tell me why to buy resale and how does it actually work? I am 37 now so hopefully have 30 years to play with it.
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Old 04-23-2014, 11:16 AM   #29
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I would only feel safe buying direct.So my thing is I want someone to tell me why to buy resale and how does it actually work? I am 37 now so hopefully have 30 years to play with it.
Why would you only feel safe buying direct. Many of us have bought resale - and have owned for a decade or more. Thousands of resale owners are out there.

As for perks that Disney tells you may only be available if you buy direct, what they aren't saying is that all perks are perks, they can be removed from the program at any time. Disney cannot change what you contractually get for anyone - but they can change what you don't contractually get for everyone.

To date, the features Disney has removed from resale buyers are the ones that "sell" the system, but you discover are bad deals once you are in.
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Old 04-23-2014, 11:24 AM   #30
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I would only feel safe buying direct.So my thing is I want someone to tell me why to buy resale and how does it actually work? I am 37 now so hopefully have 30 years to play with it.
Process of buying resale:
1. Find a listed contract for sale
2. Make offer
3. Seller accepts offer (may be a back and forth negotiation)
4. Contract is sent to Disney for ROFR
5. Disney exercises right within 30 days or so
6. If Disney passes, Buyer and Seller receive closing documents from closing company; If Disney takes, go to step 1
7. Buyer and Seller send in closing documents and all associated forms and payments to closing company
8. After closing, Disney sets up account for new member or adds contract to existing member (as applicable)

From my experience, the process takes 2.5-3 months from step #4 to have the points in the account and ready for reservations.

Pros:
1. Savings, potentially huge savings
2. Availability of "sold out" resorts
3. Negotiable prices
4. Potential for loaded contracts
5. With the exception of the Concierge Collection, the Disney Collection or the Adventurer Collection, the contracts are treated the same as buying direct
6. Variety of point amounts, use years, resorts

Cons
1. Time
2. Concierge Collection, the Disney Collection or the Adventurer Collection are not allowed under resales after March 2011
3. Cash or third-party financing required (Disney has financing options, albeit expensive)
4. Subject to ROFR
5. Subject to loaded or stripped contracts, occasional limitations of closing dates due to owner's use of points


After all of this, I decided on resale.
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