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Old 10-17-2013, 06:19 PM   #286
cmwade77
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Originally Posted by OurBigTrip View Post
I'm all for automating it more and cutting down on the amount of walking that is necessary, but I admit to being confused by your plan.

If I go to a ride that has a 30 minute wait, under the current DAS, I would wait 20 minutes, return, ride and then go to the next ride, which has say a 60 minute wait, with a return time for 50 minutes later.

Under your system, if I understand it correctly, I would go the first ride, have the CM mark me down for a 30 minute wait (current wait time), ride and then go to the next ride, where I would wait 20 or 25 minutes to board. But the second ride has a 60 minute wait, so I'm still not really waiting correctly for that ride.

As I said, maybe I misunderstood and you can help me understand.
Apparently I over complicated it, sorry.

Here is how it would work:
You go to Indiana Jones at Noon as your first ride, it has a 60 minute wait.
You show your card to the CM and the entrance, they would write down Noon as your arrival time, write down that there was a 60 minute wait and that 1 PM is the next available time.
At this point you go through the entrance as directed by the CM
Now, you get off the ride and out of the exit at 12:30.
You next want to go on Pirates, well, you can't with the pass until 1:00, so you can now go to an attraction that doesn't need the pass or whatever else you choose to do.
It's now 1:00, you head over to Pirates, you show your card at the entrance, it is a 60 minute wait, so the CM will write down the time you arrived, the wait time and say it will next be valid at 2:00 PM
The process would simply repeat throughout the day.

But this way, any time that you did wait in the accessible queue is accounted for.

And yes, there will be one ride of the day that you may not have waited the exact correct amount of time for. And, no you won't be waiting the correct amount of time in advance, instead it will be after the ride that you are waiting the correct amount of time, but overall throughout the day you will have waited the correct amount of time, minus that one ride.
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Old 10-17-2013, 06:22 PM   #287
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Originally Posted by Jperiod View Post
I've been here since Saturday and half the kiosks only have one person (and thankfully only one, maybe two families ahead of me). The busier ones like the information boards, fantasy land, and paradise pier I've seen 2-3. It would be much better if they had one in each land. I wouldn't want to backtrack through critter country, frontier, or toon town.

Just counted on our card, we've only had 16 RTs and didn't make 3 of those.
Interesting, that was not my experience on Friday. But even with one per Kiosk, that is still about $2,000 per day, considering that there needs to me more than one person per kiosk to allow for breaks and such.
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Old 10-17-2013, 08:35 PM   #288
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Originally Posted by cmwade77 View Post

Interesting, that was not my experience on Friday. But even with one per Kiosk, that is still about $2,000 per day, considering that there needs to me more than one person per kiosk to allow for breaks and such.
How you figure they get paid 18 a hour and it cost 2,000 a day to run.
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Old 10-17-2013, 08:46 PM   #289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmwade77 View Post
Apparently I over complicated it, sorry.

Here is how it would work:
You go to Indiana Jones at Noon as your first ride, it has a 60 minute wait.
You show your card to the CM and the entrance, they would write down Noon as your arrival time, write down that there was a 60 minute wait and that 1 PM is the next available time.
At this point you go through the entrance as directed by the CM
Now, you get off the ride and out of the exit at 12:30.
You next want to go on Pirates, well, you can't with the pass until 1:00, so you can now go to an attraction that doesn't need the pass or whatever else you choose to do.
It's now 1:00, you head over to Pirates, you show your card at the entrance, it is a 60 minute wait, so the CM will write down the time you arrived, the wait time and say it will next be valid at 2:00 PM
The process would simply repeat throughout the day.

But this way, any time that you did wait in the accessible queue is accounted for.

And yes, there will be one ride of the day that you may not have waited the exact correct amount of time for. And, no you won't be waiting the correct amount of time in advance, instead it will be after the ride that you are waiting the correct amount of time, but overall throughout the day you will have waited the correct amount of time, minus that one ride.
This is a very good way to do it. It's very fair.

As for the comment about abuse of this system - it wouldn't be any different than the current system only you wait AFTER the ride instead of before it. I don't see how that would increase abuse any more than waiting before the ride. People would still have to wait the same length of time.

As cmwade77 mentioned, CM's are already at the ride directing traffic. It would be easy to have them mark the time for their ride (which they probably wouldn't have to look up on a device because they are RIGHT THERE at the ride). It seems like it would work smoothly without confusion and without having to walk back and forth to kiosks every time you ride. That would take us a LONG time. Even with a kiosk in every land I can't see how it is helpful or fair having people not only wait the time for the ride (which IS fair and I don't have an issue with) but the time (and physical effort) it takes to keep walking back to a kiosk.

Also they can't predict how many people with a DAS will be queuing up to ride at any time even with these return times. They could have 15 DAS holders show up at Peter Pan and another 3 wheelchairs at the same time. That many groups waiting for Peter Pan is a nightmare (I've experienced it, and certain many others have as well). This doesn't seem any different from the GAS massive lines I encountered on some rides before. It was very noticeable on Space Mountain, Pirates and Peter Pan.

This system might discourage some people from abuse but I think the people who abused it before will find a way to use it to their advantage again.

It seems much better with cmwade77's suggestion because if the DAS line is long for something one could choose a different ride - after they wait their time - to find a DAS line they can handle instead of being forced into choosing a ride in advance.

If this DAS system is supposed to make things fair then every person who goes to Disneyland should have to make up their mind long before they want to ride something and couldn't change their minds along the way. They should also have to walk to a kiosk to tell someone what they want to ride next. It doesn't seem to be giving people with a DAS the same options as people without one.
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Old 10-17-2013, 09:38 PM   #290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by disney david

How you figure they get paid 18 a hour and it cost 2,000 a day to run.
I never said they get paid $18 an hour, I said that was what it costs Disney. This is a low number though. basically to calculate costs businesses take the salary cost and double it. So my number assumes they ate only paid $9 an hour, which is only $0.25 above minimum wage in California.

They have 8 kiosks with at least 1.25 people at any time, remember there are runners that go to Guest Relations, people that take over for breaks, etc. With an average operating day of 12 hours for each kiosk. If you multiply it out, it comes out to a little over $2,000.
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Old 10-17-2013, 09:44 PM   #291
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Can we plea get back to how it is actually happening instead of people's plans for how to change it?
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Old 10-17-2013, 09:47 PM   #292
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Originally Posted by SueM in MN View Post
I'm curious how you would propose they figure the next wait time?

If they set it based on what the current wait time was for the ride just ridden, they will still need staff to write down the time you got in line and assign next wait times.
Instead of kiosks, it would have to be at the attraction, so I don't see any labor savings. In fact, it may cost more than kiosks at DL because there might need to be 2 CMs - one to sign cards for arrival time and one to assign return times (some attraction exit in a different spot).

For example, I rode Small World and waited 10 minutes for my first ride (because it took that long to walk from the entrance to board).
When I get off, the wait at Small World is now 20 minutes, so after I have gotten off, I have to go to a CM at Small World to get a new time assigned. But, is it 20 minutes in the future that is the current wait or the 10 that I waited?
And, that CM is also signing people in, so I'm sure they will get people saying, I got off 10 minutes ago, but I was waiting in line.
And, will the person with the DAS who may not understand the process think they are going right back on the ride again because that was what happened the last time they checked in with a CM?

So, anyway, now I have a 20 minute wait time on my card. I decide to go to Splash Mountain, which currently has a 60 minute wait.
It took me more than 20 minutes to walk there. When I arrive, I check in with the CM to get an arrival time and since my 'wait time' is over, I get right into the Fastpass line.
20 minutes later, I get off Splash Mountain and check in with the CM assigning return times. Since my wait in the Fastpass line was 10, the actual ride is 7 minutes send it took me 5 minutes to walk back to the time assigner CM, he puts a wait time of 22 minutes on my card.

So, in 22 minutes, I can go to any other attraction, no matter what the wait and get on right away.

I can see a lot more potential for abuse and people would very quickly figure out to go first to an attraction means they can use the Fastpass line all day without ever waiting. It would satisfy the people who want the old GAC back because it would work the same way for them, either a little extra documentation on a card.

I'm curious what parks do it the way you are suggesting and how you know it reduces abuse?
The parks I have heard of are essentially doing the same procedure as WDW.
They may have a bit different details, like Universal/IOA in Florida allow the guest to go right into their equivalent of Fastpass line if the wait is 20 minutes or less, but the basic process is very similar.

Do I think they will tweak WDW's DAS?
Yes - once they have had it in use long enough to know what the effects of it are.

Do I think they will make major changes to it?
No - this is not something they just pulled out of a hat 4 months ago. From what I have heard, they have been working on this for about 2 years. They have looked at east other parks are doing and have changed to a system that is very similar to what other similar parks are doing.

My impression of the DAS is that is sounds workable and fair. It will mean some people who didn't plan set all will have to do some planning and there will be people that it doesn't work as well for as the GAC did.
But, GAC is gone and not coming back.

I go to WDW, not DL, but the programs at each coast should be similar.
My DD has cerebral palsy and despite being in a wheelchair (she can't walk at all), she still gets very fatigued and has low stamina. Her muscle tone goes from Barbie doll stiff to rag doll.
She has sensory issues that make waiting in some lines very difficult for her - they are too noisy, too busy and too much going on. Then , she has to contend either other guests in line who scoot by her wheelchair, pass things over her head to their friends in line and sometimes let their toddlers sit on her feet because her footrest is perfect chair height for a 2 year old.
She is obsessive compulsive about certain things, like people possibly touching her backpack. She can have meltdowns when she is at her limit (with pinching (mostly me) - we understand that she has 'hit the wall' and needs to be removed. She takes a time out until she is calmed down. A kid in meltdown is not in a frame of mind yo enjoy anyway from my point of view.
She understands, but can't talk, so if something is wrong, we often have to play 20 questions to figure out what it is. That can get frustrating to all of us, but when she is frustrated, she can't listen anymore or communicate and all we get is 'no, no, all finished' signed to us.

Our bathroom stops may take an hour (with waiting for the restroom we need) and lunch can take an hour extra because we have to feed her. And, if she has seizure or gets to a point where her day is over because she can't keep her trunk up in her wheelchair any more, her day might be over.

But, this all our life and we cope with it. Because she is a young adult, we have had lots of experience coping with it, but we do cope and make adjustments all the time.
Sometimes, it means one of us going to First Aid to put her for a rest out of her wheelchair. Sometimes it means one or all of us going back to the room.
Some days it means me or DH coming to the park at opening so we can ride the things she can't.

We did use the GAC, but we used it pretty much the way they are suggesting using DAS. We planned ahead of time which park to go to based on which was least likely to be busy. We choose attractions that had the shortest wait times and used Fastpass as much as possible. We saved the GAC for those attractions that she could not do without it. And, did not feel bad using it for things where we had an extra wait because we need the wheelchair accessible car.

So, for us, DAS will be pretty much the same as what we were doing. Of course, it will take some getting used to - it is different, but different doesn't necessarily mean bad, just different.
I understand what your trying to say BUT the way Universals system works is way better for alot of people!
I fact nearly every park in the UK works like this apart from the fact you have to wait until the ride time from the 1st ride is up until you can go on the next one!
There are a few smaller non headliner rides where you can go straight on but this is because Q time is normally very little like 10 minutes.

I actually think that if Disney sees its not working for many and that people suggest they find Universals system more workable with the challenges the DAS gives they might tweak it!
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Old 10-17-2013, 09:56 PM   #293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OurBigTrip View Post

I'm all for automating it more and cutting down on the amount of walking that is necessary, but I admit to being confused by your plan.

If I go to a ride that has a 30 minute wait, under the current DAS, I would wait 20 minutes, return, ride and then go to the next ride, which has say a 60 minute wait, with a return time for 50 minutes later.

Under your system, if I understand it correctly, I would go the first ride, have the CM mark me down for a 30 minute wait (current wait time), ride and then go to the next ride, where I would wait 20 or 25 minutes to board. But the second ride has a 60 minute wait, so I'm still not really waiting correctly for that ride.

As I said, maybe I misunderstood and you can help me understand.
This is how it works in All the UK theme parks, yes you may get a time at 1 ride that says 20 then go to the next and that ride has a longer wait, BUT once your at that ride the time written down to do the next ride would be the 60 mins for the ride your now going on, so it does equal its self out and you would wait the appropriate time in slightly different order.

Hope that makes sense
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Old 10-17-2013, 10:02 PM   #294
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmwade77 View Post
Apparently I over complicated it, sorry.

Here is how it would work:
You go to Indiana Jones at Noon as your first ride, it has a 60 minute wait.
You show your card to the CM and the entrance, they would write down Noon as your arrival time, write down that there was a 60 minute wait and that 1 PM is the next available time.
At this point you go through the entrance as directed by the CM
Now, you get off the ride and out of the exit at 12:30.
You next want to go on Pirates, well, you can't with the pass until 1:00, so you can now go to an attraction that doesn't need the pass or whatever else you choose to do.
It's now 1:00, you head over to Pirates, you show your card at the entrance, it is a 60 minute wait, so the CM will write down the time you arrived, the wait time and say it will next be valid at 2:00 PM
The process would simply repeat throughout the day.

But this way, any time that you did wait in the accessible queue is accounted for.

And yes, there will be one ride of the day that you may not have waited the exact correct amount of time for. And, no you won't be waiting the correct amount of time in advance, instead it will be after the ride that you are waiting the correct amount of time, but overall throughout the day you will have waited the correct amount of time, minus that one ride.
I'm totally with you on this! It's how I've tried to explain a better way for it to work for ages!!

As I've said in other posts all UK parks work this exact way and it works well!

It would cut the abuse just as the DAS will yet it will be a lot easier on the children/adults with autism as they don't go to the ride until its time to ride! No criss crossing or confusion.

I hope like you say if enough people find it the current DAS works for them, that they will look at how this could based on other parks..
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Old 10-17-2013, 10:10 PM   #295
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If you want to talk about how you would change the Disney system, please start a new thread.

People are complaining to me that all this discussion about how some people would change the DAS is confusing to them when they are trying to figure out how it IS operating.

Any further suggestions about how people think Disney should change it that are posted this thread will be deleted.
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Old 10-17-2013, 10:44 PM   #296
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Ok, as requested, getting back to how this works for people:
Many people I have spoken with find the system to be decent, but find that they aren't able to stay in the parks add long, due to all of the extra walking. Those that use ECVs find that they can't spend as much time in the parks, due to limited battery power.

Many locals are seeing a benefit to this, as it means they are spending less money in the parks.

Many of the nonlocals are getting frustrated because they spent good money to come out here and feel that it's been wasted.

Then there are the people like me that don't go on a ton of rides, but do mostly shows and such with a few rides mixed in. For us the new system works really well, we just get a return time on our way to a show and it's generally time by the time we get out.

Then there's the issue of consistency in how the new system is applied. It's really hard to talk about all of the ins and outs of the system when one CM says it works one way and another says the complete opposite. For example, I had one GR CM tell me that if my return time is ready and I am about to go on a ride that I can get a return time for the next ride, if it's wait time is an hour or longer. Some people have index been able to do this, but then others were told no.

Then if the return time would be after Park closing, some CMs will still give the return time, as they should of the standby line is still taking people, as that is what would be equal, but others will refuse.

Something that I mentioned before is that you can get a DAS at any of the kiosks, but you will have to wait for a CM to run and pick it up from Guest Relations. I figure this is worth mentioning again, as it is different from what we originally thought was going to happen. The CM that issued mine did tell me that if the kiosks remain, they will eventually have printers at all of them, most likely by the peak of Christmas season.

Attractions with stairs have been refusing to allow people to bypass them without a DAS, wheelchair or ECV. Even people with canes and walkers were told they had to do the stairs if they didn't have a DAS, I wouldn't have believed it if I didn't hear it with my own two ears. And guest Relations says that you don't need a DAS to bypass the stairs. Same goes for any queues that are not mainstreamed and if someone can't use the regular queue due to turnstiles, low lighting, etc.

I witnessed the same behavior of CMs at WOC and Aladdin. I am not saying this will happen to everyone, just that it's what I saw and heard happening when I was there.

For certain attractions people with DAS cards have had to wait at least double the length of the standby line, due to the number of wheelchairs there at the time they came back.

You generally have to start your wait time over again if you choose not to ride something, even though this wouldn't generally happen if you waited physically through the entire length of the standby line and had to leave for some reason.

When I went to get my DAS, there was no one there, but it was at a kiosk that wasn't even on the list. The lady did give me a bit of a hard time initially, but I explained all of my needs and there was no issue after that. The odd thing though wad that she said they will reevaluate the needs every 14 days and basically if they don't think you need a DAS, they may not give you a new one.

I have listed a lot of issues, but they are important to know, so that we know what kinds of difficulties we may run into when we get there.

That being said, you can make the system work, with a bit of planning, even if you like to tour commando style.

Here is what Disney has told me to do to minimize waits (their words, not mine, I didn't even ask how to minimize waits with the system, they volunteered and this was a Disney executive):
1. Always have an active return time on your pass.
2. Always have a valid FP
3. If eligible use FP+ (wdw only right now)
4. Always have a Return Time card for an attraction that doesn't have mainstream access (obviously this applies mostly to Disneyland) - you can good one of these, even if you have an active return time on your DAS.

These were their instructions and if you follow them, you really shouldn't generally have any long waits for attractions, except the ones that have anyways had issues. It does require some placing to determine which option you should use for which attractions to minimize the extra walking and keep your wait times down. You can also come up with a touring plan to help further minimize waits.

This is planning that any other guest could do with the tools available to them as well.

So far these have been the experiences of people that I know and myself.
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Old 10-18-2013, 01:23 AM   #297
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Originally Posted by SueM in MN View Post
Can we plea get back to how it is actually happening instead of people's plans for how to change it?
We aren't allowed to discuss our thoughts about it? I have some complaints too but I think people have the right to state their opinions if they are being polite about it. What confuses ME is many threads about the same issue.

I suggest then, people who don't know how it IS operating don't answer questions when people ask about things.
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Old 10-18-2013, 01:26 AM   #298
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We aren't allowed to discuss our thoughts?
This is an informational thread. She stated if we wanted to talk about how things should be different start another thread.
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Old 10-18-2013, 01:36 AM   #299
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Originally Posted by mrsksomeday View Post
This is an informational thread. She stated if we wanted to talk about how things should be different start another thread.
I read what was said. I was simply stating my opinion. I explained that many threads about different aspects of the same issue confuse me. I was responding to her comment.

EDIT: I apologize for causing people confusion by stating my opinions in regard to things not relevant to this thread. And even though I have very good reason for posting and asking questions in this thread, I won't do it again.
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Old 10-18-2013, 02:35 AM   #300
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I have been very keenly reading this thread so thank you all! I think I am getting the facts now! I think ( I hope ) I just realised the bit I was missing filled in by the helpful example by pp and the Pirates as first ride. Let me see if my understanding is correct.. If I have a DAS when I go to my first ride the CM writes down the wait time in my card but I ride the ride straight away? It's there after I wait for the next ride as if I have waited in line for the first ride? The process repeats through the day? I thought you get to the first ride then have to kick your heels and wait the wait time until you can ride it. I hope my understanding of the facts are correct.
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