DVC RESALES
DVC RESALES

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Old 10-04-2013, 09:11 PM   #46
bakerworld
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Originally Posted by ddixon1 View Post
Dude, you are comparing apples to oranges here (e.g., comparing 200+ pt contracts to 50-100 pt contracts).

To be clear, I was careful to preface my comment with the fact that I was looking at 50-100 pt contracts (as the OP had mentioned at one point, possibly splitting the contract). Smaller contracts seem to represent a distinct sub-market amongst resales.

The smaller contracts tend to list higher; be fairly stripped of points; and sell faster, with sellers pretty much refusing to budge on asking prices, and refusing to pay any fees or closing costs. This was my experience while submitting 30+ offers (based on the ROFR data) in the past several months.

So my numbers stand (for the smaller contracts), and the gap has been narrowing even further. Current listing prices for 50-100 pt AKV contracts are $87-$97 pp -- I submitted offers on every one of them, and the sellers refused to budge. The majority of these contracts don't even have points available until 2015!

Each person has to make his/her decision based on his/her unique experience. You mentioned that your personality is such that paying more would cause you too much stress. That makes sense, of course.

However, currently my life is way too stressful and complicated (e.g., I run my own business; I tend to a spouse with a chronic, life-limiting illness; all while trying to provide a somewhat "normal" life for our 8 y/o son). The 10pp difference (even less now) lent me to abandon my own perception regarding the stress and aggravation of dealing with the resale market, so I went direct. It was much simpler and stress-free for me. (Oh and while Fidelity does not charge a CC processing fee, other brokers do --$45 for one).

Anywhoooo... I wish the OP best of luck with their own decision.
Some are just hard core re-sale and nothing changes their mind set
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Old 10-05-2013, 02:42 AM   #47
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Some are just hard core re-sale and nothing changes their mind set
Nah, I think it's just being hard core into saving money. If it were truly only a $10 per point difference, I would buy direct for sure. I think I place the convenience of direct at about $15 per point max. Anything beyond that and no way. I think we all have different thresholds. Even someone who is "hard core direct sale" wouldn't pay $1,000,000 per point if it could be had for $50. So we all have thresholds, right?
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Old 10-05-2013, 07:36 AM   #48
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Some are just hard core re-sale and nothing changes their mind set
I can't speak for others but in general and for me personally, it's not about being hard core or hard headed but about making conscious decisions. One of those decisions is there is NOTHING of value currently retail vs resale if you end up with the same contract (including # of points) and home resort. After that it becomes math and common sense. First it has to reasonable to buy at all (it isn't for many including some that buy in), that can actually afford it (my def is no consumer debt and paying cash). Then it's simply numbers. It's easy to figure out what the Retail cost will be and how many points you'd get. It's also fairly easy to get an idea of what the same would be resale. Then you just compare the 2. Ultimately that means that only things you can't get resale and smaller contracts are reasonable retail. 100 points at a resort generally available resale isn't generally going to be a cost effective purchase retail meeting the above criteria. That assumes it's available resale at a reasonable price (VGF, VGC may not be).

One cannot count the points to bank as a reduction because it's possible to find resale contracts with as many, and sometimes more, points (so called loaded contract). If you get totally free points above that as some of the promotions have in the past, that can add value but is usually in the same range as price reductions and you likely wouldn't get both. As a rule stripped contracts are not a good deal simply because the current points are worth too much and the sellers don't discount enough to make up for that loss but that could change at some point. They are unreasonable as the main comparison in this type of discussion.

Certainly 100 pt contracts aren't going to be as common and may cost modestly more pp. For those looking at 100 pts, it's often going to be better to actually move up to 150-170 due to a lower cost and more availability and still be cheaper than 100 pts retail as qualified. Of course that's another $250 -350 more per year but I'd venture those that can afford the 100 should be able to afford 170, if they can't they're probably cutting it too close anyway. While I'd never suggest one buy with the main intent of renting, it does remain a viable option for those who have extra points and is likely a reasonable aggravation if it allows one to buy resale instead.
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Old 10-05-2013, 08:42 AM   #49
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Lets just take an average buy for 100 points....for Bay Lake Towers it's 160 per point. That would be 16,000. If you buy resale you can either up the points, or save 6,000. I don't think the option to buy RCI at their rediculous prices, or a cruise ( also at horrible prices) is worth the extra 6,000. I also think that buying a resort with more years is smart. Most of the time you can get where you want at 7 months out. For resale you can get 220 points per year for the price of 150. It's a huge savings.
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Old 10-05-2013, 08:49 AM   #50
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Lets just take an average buy for 100 points....for Bay Lake Towers it's 160 per point. That would be 16,000. If you buy resale you can either up the points, or save 6,000. I don't think the option to buy RCI at their rediculous prices, or a cruise ( also at horrible prices) is worth the extra 6,000. I also think that buying a resort with more years is smart. Most of the time you can get where you want at 7 months out. For resale you can get 220 points per year for the price of 150. It's a huge savings.
You don't even lose RCI or BVTC (Buena Vista Trading company) resale. The 2 exchange options that can make sense in a minority of situations.
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Old 10-05-2013, 08:58 AM   #51
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You don't even lose RCI or BVTC (Buena Vista Trading company) resale. The 2 exchange options that can make sense in a minority of situations.
I thought you lost RCI in resale?
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Old 10-05-2013, 10:41 AM   #52
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I thought you lost RCI in resale?
Nope. RCI can be used with a resale DVC contract.
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Old 10-05-2013, 11:21 AM   #53
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Nope. RCI can be used with a resale DVC contract.
So why is anyone buying direct? (Totally confused about that....not being sarcastic).
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Old 10-05-2013, 11:42 AM   #54
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So why is anyone buying direct? (Totally confused about that....not being sarcastic).
People buy direct for a few reasons:
  • Most buy DVC without ever planning to. They are at WDW on vacation and stop in at one of the DVC kiosks. They listen to the sales pitch, are having a great time, and just go with it. They haven't done much, if any, research.
  • Some simply feel safer buying directly from Disney.
  • Disney makes the process easy and immediate. In just a couple of hours, you're a DVC member! No haggling over price, no waiting for ROFR, no back-and-forth paperwork.
  • Disney offers easy financing.
  • Points purchased directly can be used for other Disney vacations, such as Disney Cruise Line. Overwhelmingly, experienced DVC members will tell you this is not the best economic use of your points but some members do it anyway because they like the convenience.
I'm sure there are other reasons but those are the ones that I can immediately think of.
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Old 10-05-2013, 11:45 AM   #55
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I bought direct from Disneybecause I didn't know about the resale market. If I had, I would have bought smarter.
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Old 10-05-2013, 12:22 PM   #56
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And, of course, not everyone can buy resale. There's just not enough supply. Disney moves 10 times the number of points each month than the resale market, because most current owners are happy with their ownership and don't sell. So resale is an incredible deal as long as most buyers don't know about it.

I actually think the best thing Disney could do to "fix" the resale competition would be to emphasize the resale market to every buyer, and go ahead and tell them where to go look at the resale market. They could emphasize that if they aren't happy with their DVC purchase, they can sell it on the open market. For a short time, they'd lose some sales to resale, but pretty quickly resale prices would shoot up until they were just below direct, at which point people would see direct as an incredible deal. Having a vibrant and high-priced resale market is a huge benefit to a buyer, because it means they will be able to realize a good price when they sell.
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Old 10-05-2013, 01:53 PM   #57
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And, of course, not everyone can buy resale. There's just not enough supply. Disney moves 10 times the number of points each month than the resale market, because most current owners are happy with their ownership and don't sell. So resale is an incredible deal as long as most buyers don't know about it.

I actually think the best thing Disney could do to "fix" the resale competition would be to emphasize the resale market to every buyer, and go ahead and tell them where to go look at the resale market. They could emphasize that if they aren't happy with their DVC purchase, they can sell it on the open market. For a short time, they'd lose some sales to resale, but pretty quickly resale prices would shoot up until they were just below direct, at which point people would see direct as an incredible deal. Having a vibrant and high-priced resale market is a huge benefit to a buyer, because it means they will be able to realize a good price when they sell.
I don't know what you are talking about. There are a lot of properties on the resale market. I wish more people did know about it as I am currently trying to sell. If the market was so limited, mine would be sold by now. Disney does tell owners they can sell on the open market. Are you suggesting that Disney suggest people look at resale when they call for prices?
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Old 10-05-2013, 05:04 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Annielkd22222 View Post
I don't know what you are talking about. There are a lot of properties on the resale market. I wish more people did know about it as I am currently trying to sell. If the market was so limited, mine would be sold by now. Disney does tell owners they can sell on the open market. Are you suggesting that Disney suggest people look at resale when they call for prices?
I'm saying there is limited supply of resale deeds, because there aren't that many people selling in a specific month compared to the number of people who buy. Most of those people don't know about resale and buy direct from Disney.

In an average month, about 300 resale deeds are sold. And 1500+ deeds are sold direct from Disney. All 1500 of those people who bought from Disney cannot buy resale, because there aren't enough resale deeds on the market for them to buy. If the prices went up, there would probably be a few more contracts put up for sale, but not enough to satisfy all the potential buyers.

The only reason resale prices are as low as they are is that lots of people don't know about resale. If Disney did anything that raised the profile of resale, the prices would go up very quickly, at which point Disney wouldn't have any trouble competing with resale.

So I think in the presentation, it would actually benefit Disney if they raised resale as a selling point and made sure that everyone who went on a DVC tour and saw the presentation knew that there was a resale market and were told how to go looking at the prices. That would raise resale prices until they were just below direct prices, and then that would be an external validation of Disney's prices, which would help Disney sell DVC. Essentially they would lose a few sales in the short term to make it easier to sell in the long term.
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Old 10-05-2013, 06:06 PM   #59
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I'm assuming you know what you are talking about. You say that 300 resale contracts are sold a month, but it seems like there is enough inventory to support those sales. (I've been looking at different sites to see if mine is priced right and what the competition is) Are you saying its a seller's market? I'm just asking because I'm curious. To me it seems like the market is flooded with resale contracts....and I am worried mine won't sell.
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Old 10-05-2013, 06:40 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Annielkd22222 View Post
I'm assuming you know what you are talking about. You say that 300 resale contracts are sold a month, but it seems like there is enough inventory to support those sales. (I've been looking at different sites to see if mine is priced right and what the competition is) Are you saying its a seller's market? I'm just asking because I'm curious. To me it seems like the market is flooded with resale contracts....and I am worried mine won't sell.
I have been looking at the selling price for every DVC resale deed for the last 6 months, so yeah, I know for sure how many resales there are each month.

The turnover each month is pretty close to 100%, meaning that most listings clear within a month. If you've got a BLT deed listed at $102 (I'm assuming it's BLT, since that's the only other resort around that price point), that's a little on the high side, but not by a lot. In September the median price recorded for BLT was $97.50/pt, which is down $0.50 from August at $98/pt. The market's a little down in volume since the summer, and that will probably either depress prices or slow down their increase. But if you've got your property listed with The Timeshare Store, and it's priced reasonably, there's not a lot more you can do.

If it's a larger contract, it's going to take a little longer because you need to wait for someone with the wallet size necessary to buy. Just be patient. If you aren't a huge hurry to sell, let the ebb and flow of sales be your friend. And if you're in a huge hurry to sell, list it at $95 and it'll be sold tomorrow.
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