DVC RESALES
DVC RESALES

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Old 05-04-2013, 10:27 AM   #16
AmyB2006
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I'm Sorry. Yes, you're right.

It's very hard to read "tone" when you're typing and not talking face to face, obviously, but to me, a few of the pp seemed like they were trying to "talk down" to me like I'm an idiot for not understanding the terminology. I don't take well to that.

Thank you for explaining it where it makes sense. Is there a "panties 'un'twisted" emoticon?

I'm not concerned with the points I currently have. The Disney guide explained that they were good no matter where we wanted to use them. I am asking because I know we will want more points in the future. It seems like buying a resale is the way to go. I just wanted to know what the limitations were. I'm trying to figure out if I should purchase a resale or buy direct from Disney like we did before.

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There may (likely will) be other resale restrictions later and resale buyers now will likely not be protected (grandfathered) from any negative changes going forward.
That's kind of upsetting. You're saying that if you bought a resale today and they made changes a year from now restricting the usage that you wouldn't be grandfathered in? You'd be subject to the new rules?
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Old 05-04-2013, 11:00 AM   #17
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.....(snip)...........You're saying that if you bought a resale today and they made changes a year from now restricting the usage that you wouldn't be grandfathered in? You'd be subject to the new rules?
That's Dean's opinion. While his opinion may be shared by many, that does not make it a given.

No one who posts here knows for sure what Disney may decide to do in the future. You can only make decisions based on what you know to be true right now.
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Old 05-04-2013, 11:02 AM   #18
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In fairness no one really knows what future restrictions may come to resale buyers or whether or not those restrictions should apply to previous owners it is all just speculation. You can only make your decision based on today's information which is you can't use the Disney Collection, Adventure collection or Concierge collection. For me personally the only be of those that bothered me slightly was the Disney collection and only as a back up if I couldn't,t get in to VGC but we decided to buy VGC resale points to remove that problem. I wouldn't use the adventure or concierge collection anyway so resale suits me
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Old 05-04-2013, 01:38 PM   #19
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For all we know, when the villas at the GF open for sales, they might constitute a new DVC, like DVCII. And no one could get to use points there for resales or older resorts or less than X points. They could change the non-home booking time there to two months out instead of seven months out. It's just an unknown at this point.
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Old 05-04-2013, 03:34 PM   #20
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That's kind of upsetting. You're saying that if you bought a resale today and they made changes a year from now restricting the usage that you wouldn't be grandfathered in? You'd be subject to the new rules?
Legally they could make changes retroactive, I believe this is fact and not opinion. I think it's almost a certainty they would make future restrictions retroactive for non qualified points but it would be DVD'd choice. My opinion is that you're guaranteed potential access to your resort and other club resorts the same as EVERY other owner qualified or not for current club resorts and any future club resorts. I think an exchange company option is likely to continue for all but that the BVTC is at risk and may vanish for resale buyers. Since it is unreasonable to buy DVC for the options that have been restricted, I don't see this as having any real affect on the usability for a given member and ASAMOF, it's likely beneficial because it resulted in lower prices. Truthfully, in the absence of a VIP program of some sort, there's really only so much they can do to you as a resale buyer other than dangle carrots on the other side of the glass.

Here's an example. They could offer an extension of 2042 contracts by buying additional retail points but not for non qualified points
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Old 05-04-2013, 05:20 PM   #21
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... You're saying that if you bought a resale today and they made changes a year from now restricting the usage that you wouldn't be grandfathered in? You'd be subject to the new rules?
Resales have been around since shortly after DVC began and, until March, 2011, members who purchased via resale were treated the same as those who purchased direct.

Those who purchased resale after March, 2011 have some restrictions regarding what non-DVC options are available to them, but currently still have access to all DVC resorts as well as the World Passport collection. If DVD should decide to further restrict points acquired via resale, it is within their ability to do so and they could make those restrictions retroactive even though they grandfathered all resale purchases prior to March 21, 2011. (I would personally be shocked if any prior changes were retroactively removed just due to the negative response from those members affected who purchased in good faith at the time.)

Whether more restrictions are added to resale purchases and whether any resale purchases will be grandfathered is fodder for speculation but those with any real knowledge of this have made no announcement. In early 2011, there was some advance announcement of the situation but even that is not guaranteed going forward.

While it is fun to speculate what Disney might do in the future, until they formally announce and implement any change, nothing is official and could be changed. DVC history is filled with announcements regarding resort development, programs, perks, etc that have never come to be part of the program. Resorts at Newport Beach, CA, NYC and even at WDW have been announced in the past (including artist renderings and press releases) and later withdrawn. There have been announcements at the DVC Annual Meeting about programs (like a VIP program) that have never been implemented.

As members all we can embrace at any given moment is what programs, perks, and even resorts are available at that moment because all of that could change (and has in the past) with one piece of mail from DVC to announce a change - typically described as a "program enhancement".

Stay tuned.
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Old 05-04-2013, 05:49 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by AmyB2006 View Post
That's kind of upsetting. You're saying that if you bought a resale today and they made changes a year from now restricting the usage that you wouldn't be grandfathered in? You'd be subject to the new rules?
sometimes perks are taken away from direct purchasers as well, if that makes you feel any better.
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Old 05-05-2013, 08:03 PM   #23
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sometimes perks are taken away from direct purchasers as well, if that makes you feel any better.
IMHO, that's why it's always a good idea to purchase where you intend to stay. Almost all other perks can be taken away from both direct and resale buyers.

Returning to the speculation, it's understandable why Disney put in the restriction for the Disney Collection, the Concierge Collection, and the Adventurer Collection. These are expensive benefits to offer. Sales should be strong at both the known VGF and the presumed Polynesian. With AKV sales finally nearing completion, it's unclear what additional financial gains can be made through more restrictions.
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Old 05-05-2013, 08:23 PM   #24
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Returning to the speculation, it's understandable why Disney put in the restriction for the Disney Collection, the Concierge Collection, and the Adventurer Collection. These are expensive benefits to offer.
There is no direct or really indirect cost for DVD to offer these options. The members actually pay all of the costs involved in one way or another. I do think it's understandable but for a different reason, that they are high profile even if low value and are not contractual.
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Old 05-05-2013, 09:27 PM   #25
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Disney can pretty much do what ever they want. They are in the business of selling timeshares, not keeping everyone happy.

If they feel that additional restrictions will increase their business, you can expect additional restrictions. Will they make them retro-active or grandfather in for certain groups, maybe. It all depends on what they are trying to accomplish and how much pressure is place on increasing sales.

It's all about business.

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Old 05-06-2013, 07:32 PM   #26
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Disney can pretty much do what ever they want. They are in the business of selling timeshares, not keeping everyone happy.
Ouch. WDW's business is not timeshares; WDW's "business" is happiness.

Disney, WDW in particular, is in the business of selling vacations. Selling vacations is all about making people happy.

WDW will do what it needs to do to make the most people happy for the greatest profit but to say it's business is "not keeping everyone happy" is to completely miss what WDW sells.

DVC members, especially those who purchase directly from Disney, represent some of WDW's biggest spenders. There's no reason to damage their long-term goodwill for a few bucks. Disney needs to carefully weigh each change in benefit to determine what will produce the best long-term profit. From this perspective, Disney never will "pretty much do what ever they want." It's bad business.
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Old 05-06-2013, 07:40 PM   #27
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Ouch. WDW's business is not timeshares; WDW's "business" is happiness.

Disney, WDW in particular, is in the business of selling vacations. Selling vacations is all about making people happy.

WDW will do what it needs to do to make the most people happy for the greatest profit but to say it's business is "not keeping everyone happy" is to completely miss what WDW sells.

DVC members, especially those who purchase directly from Disney, represent some of WDW's biggest spenders. There's no reason to damage their long-term goodwill for a few bucks. Disney needs to carefully weigh each change in benefit to determine what will produce the best long-term profit. From this perspective, Disney never will "pretty much do what ever they want." It's bad business.
Step away from the Kool-aid and you will be fine.
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Old 05-06-2013, 08:17 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Nabas View Post
Ouch. WDW's business is not timeshares; WDW's "business" is happiness.

Disney, WDW in particular, is in the business of selling vacations. Selling vacations is all about making people happy.

WDW will do what it needs to do to make the most people happy for the greatest profit but to say it's business is "not keeping everyone happy" is to completely miss what WDW sells.

DVC members, especially those who purchase directly from Disney, represent some of WDW's biggest spenders. There's no reason to damage their long-term goodwill for a few bucks. Disney needs to carefully weigh each change in benefit to determine what will produce the best long-term profit. From this perspective, Disney never will "pretty much do what ever they want." It's bad business.
I should have said that DVD's business is selling timeshares, Disney's is making money. The Disney stockholders expect a profit, if placing restrictions on resales increases that profit while upsetting owners, they have already done that. If increasing prices and exercising ROFR on resale buyers upsets some people, they do that too.

Make no mistake about it, Disney is a for profit business, yes they have a wonderful product and yes they do a great job but their decisions are based on numbers. Most of their executive team have a finance background, not a hospitality or customer service background. Many of their changes both Parks and Resorts and DVD upsets the regulars but the reality is, they make so much money from the first timers, it offsets any lost sales.

60% of DVC buyers are first timers and have little knowledge of how DVC works. They don't read the fine print and most don't even know that resale exists because the Guide never told them about it. DVC owners will aways generate long term profit for as long as they own their contract, no matter what Disney does. If DVC owners get upset and sell, someone else is waiting to take over the contract so Disney really hasn't lost a thing.

Don't get me wrong, our family loves Disney, WDW and what Walt built, but we realize that Disney is a business.

Bill

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Old 05-06-2013, 09:10 PM   #29
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Most of their executive team have a finance background, not a hospitality or customer service background. Many of their changes both Parks and Resorts and DVD upsets the regulars but the reality is, they make so much money from the first timers, it offsets any lost sales.
I think you are and are in agreement.

To clarify my point, I agree Disney executives will use standard finance and business equations to help make decisions but since their ultimate "product" is happiness, they need to take into account the human factor in these equations. Simplistically, more happiness = more profits. This is one of the reasons Disney conducts surveys like no other; Disney's business decisions need to include "happiness" in the equation. Thus, when WDW lets an attraction like Splash Mountain fall apart for years before finally fixing it, it's because they know through surveys that more guests would rather ride a "broken" Splash Mountain than no Splash Mountain, and not enough guests notice the difference to make it worth investing in a third shift to make overnight repairs.

DVD is no different. If they decide to add restrictions, they will be sure to factor in the human element.

Heck, Disney created a firestorm by announcing "Starbuck's is replacing the Main Street Bakery" which only was quelled when Disney changed the message to "the Main Street Bakery will be serving Starbuck's coffee". Disney knows it's all about image and, regardless of business degree, they need to maintain the image as "the place where dreams come true".

If they can get away with cutting corners and most DVC members won't complain, they'll do it. But they also want to avoid incidents like the recent Starbuck's fiasco. It's all about the message they send to their "guests" along with a little pixiedust.
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Old 05-06-2013, 09:57 PM   #30
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I think you are and are in agreement.

To clarify my point, I agree Disney executives will use standard finance and business equations to help make decisions but since their ultimate "product" is happiness, they need to take into account the human factor in these equations. Simplistically, more happiness = more profits. This is one of the reasons Disney conducts surveys like no other; Disney's business decisions need to include "happiness" in the equation. Thus, when WDW lets an attraction like Splash Mountain fall apart for years before finally fixing it, it's because they know through surveys that more guests would rather ride a "broken" Splash Mountain than no Splash Mountain, and not enough guests notice the difference to make it worth investing in a third shift to make overnight repairs.

DVD is no different. If they decide to add restrictions, they will be sure to factor in the human element.

Heck, Disney created a firestorm by announcing "Starbuck's is replacing the Main Street Bakery" which only was quelled when Disney changed the message to "the Main Street Bakery will be serving Starbuck's coffee". Disney knows it's all about image and, regardless of business degree, they need to maintain the image as "the place where dreams come true".

If they can get away with cutting corners and most DVC members won't complain, they'll do it. But they also want to avoid incidents like the recent Starbuck's fiasco. It's all about the message they send to their "guests" along with a little pixiedust.
But what the PPs were trying to explain is that the executives from DVD aren't judged on how much money DVCers spend in the parks. DVD only makes its money buy selling DVC contracts. So in their eyes, every resale contract sold is a lost sale for DVD. The Disney company as a whole want to keep you happy and spending, but when it comes to DVD (who is the one in charge of any resale restrictions, they really don't care how happy you are. They already have your money.
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