DVC RESALES
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Old 05-28-2013, 01:57 PM   #1
nalajms
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Buying resale a different way?

With an increase in ROFR, especially for loaded contracts, has anyone ever tried asking the sellers to transfer their points over prior to sending it to Disney? Or is that even legal?

Say there's a 200pt Aug UY with 200 pts banked from '11, 200pts for '12, and forward. Once a price is settled and buyer puts down an appropriate escrow, seller then transfers '12 points and maybe '13 points (if that's doable). This assumes buyer is already a member. If Disney takes the contract, seller's not out anything, buyer gets some points for the hassle. If buyer backs out, seller would get the escrow. Seems like a win-win idea
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Old 05-28-2013, 06:06 PM   #2
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Tried that with fidelity they won't even get involved with it.

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Old 05-28-2013, 07:26 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nalajms View Post
With an increase in ROFR, especially for loaded contracts, has anyone ever tried asking the sellers to transfer their points over prior to sending it to Disney? Or is that even legal?

Say there's a 200pt Aug UY with 200 pts banked from '11, 200pts for '12, and forward. Once a price is settled and buyer puts down an appropriate escrow, seller then transfers '12 points and maybe '13 points (if that's doable). This assumes buyer is already a member. If Disney takes the contract, seller's not out anything, buyer gets some points for the hassle. If buyer backs out, seller would get the escrow. Seems like a win-win idea
But then the price already agreed to would no longer be reasonable (or whatever term you want to use), since it was agreed on when the points were part of the agreement. The contract signed would be invalid. It's no different the when someone makes an offer based on a listing with an error in it (e.g., points already used but listed as available). The. The contract has to be revised to reflect reality. Then Disney may think the price is really low and make them more likely to exercise ROFR.

All that, plus it just seems generally scammy to me.
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Old 05-28-2013, 08:40 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nalajms View Post
With an increase in ROFR, especially for loaded contracts, has anyone ever tried asking the sellers to transfer their points over prior to sending it to Disney? Or is that even legal?

Say there's a 200pt Aug UY with 200 pts banked from '11, 200pts for '12, and forward. Once a price is settled and buyer puts down an appropriate escrow, seller then transfers '12 points and maybe '13 points (if that's doable). This assumes buyer is already a member. If Disney takes the contract, seller's not out anything, buyer gets some points for the hassle. If buyer backs out, seller would get the escrow. Seems like a win-win idea
How is this a win for the seller? No upside for the seller to do this plus as vicki_c posted it feels fraudulent.

I would never transfer points without getting paid up front for them. Transfers are not reversible. Buyers have a 10 day period to back out and if they do, they get all their money back. Seller now is worse off than he/she started!

If someone suggested this to me, I'd refuse to do business with him - if he'd "try to get one over" on Disney, why would he hesitate to do it to me?
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Old 05-29-2013, 03:30 AM   #5
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As a seller I wouldn't trust a buyer who proposed this and there are plenty of buyers so I would pass.
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Old 05-29-2013, 06:06 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nalajms View Post
With an increase in ROFR, especially for loaded contracts, has anyone ever tried asking the sellers to transfer their points over prior to sending it to Disney? Or is that even legal?

Say there's a 200pt Aug UY with 200 pts banked from '11, 200pts for '12, and forward. Once a price is settled and buyer puts down an appropriate escrow, seller then transfers '12 points and maybe '13 points (if that's doable). This assumes buyer is already a member. If Disney takes the contract, seller's not out anything, buyer gets some points for the hassle. If buyer backs out, seller would get the escrow. Seems like a win-win idea
Seriously, Disney doesn't have the cash to ROFR every contract that comes their way. Just keep trying and you'll get one through without any of these proposed antics.
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Old 05-29-2013, 06:26 AM   #7
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I don't think there has been a noticeable increase in ROFR excepting 1 week in March that now looks like a blip. When we average the 2013 ROFR figure to date I'm not convinced they will be that much higher than other years
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Old 05-29-2013, 07:12 AM   #8
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As a seller, when you list your contract, you sign an agreement to list/sell the contract with x amount of points including any banked points. After signing the listing agreement you cannot change the status of your points.
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Old 05-29-2013, 10:10 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarolMN View Post
How is this a win for the seller? No upside for the seller to do this plus as vicki_c posted it feels fraudulent.

I would never transfer points without getting paid up front for them. Transfers are not reversible. Buyers have a 10 day period to back out and if they do, they get all their money back. Seller now is worse off than he/she started!
Oops, didn't think about that. At first I thought maybe a pre-payment for the transfer points. I would think that there's a way to word it so that part of the escrow would go to the seller if the buyer backs out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minniesgal View Post
I don't think there has been a noticeable increase in ROFR excepting 1 week in March that now looks like a blip. When we average the 2013 ROFR figure to date I'm not convinced they will be that much higher than other years
I thought the price increase in resale was due to the increase in ROFR. Perhaps it's more an increase in price of ROFR contracts.

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As a seller, when you list your contract, you sign an agreement to list/sell the contract with x amount of points including any banked points. After signing the listing agreement you cannot change the status of your points.
But there have been cases where the seller decided to take a last vacation after listing. Not sure if it makes much of a difference for the contract. It's not like a buyer can recoup the loss. Buyer can either go through with the purchase or walk away.
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Old 05-29-2013, 10:33 AM   #10
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Increase in prices was causes by increase in seller confidence due to increased demand. Part but not all of the increased demand was caused by a flurry of ROFR activity in Mrch which in my opinion has not been repeated since.

Low stocks and high demand are responsible for price increases, only part of the is due to ROFR.
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Old 05-29-2013, 02:54 PM   #11
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I don't think there has been a noticeable increase in ROFR excepting 1 week in March that now looks like a blip. When we average the 2013 ROFR figure to date I'm not convinced they will be that much higher than other years
The data in WDRL's thread would suggest otherwise. To say that there was an increase in ROFR activity for "1 week" and that it was a "blip" is incorrect in light of the overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

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Originally Posted by Minniesgal View Post
Increase in prices was causes by increase in seller confidence due to increased demand. Part but not all of the increased demand was caused by a flurry of ROFR activity in Mrch which in my opinion has not been repeated since.

Low stocks and high demand are responsible for price increases, only part of the is due to ROFR.
With all due respect, your analysis is oversimplified and lacks perspective. Resale prices have fluctuated both up and down over the past 18 months depending on the resort. Speaking to BWV specifically, prices increased due to a shortage of supply starting in the summer of 2012. There is no evidence to support an increased demand, but there is plenty of evidence of a supply shortage. I also think you grossly underestimate the effect ROFR activity has had on resale prices, specifically people's reactions to perceived future ROFR activity.
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Old 05-29-2013, 03:46 PM   #12
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Here's what is affecting the supply of resale points:

(1) U.S. house prices see biggest gains since 2006, a rise of 10.9 per cent in March over a year ago.
(2) S&P is at record highs
(3) Consumer confidence at highest level since Feb 2008
(4) Job growth is strengthing with 165,000 jobs added in April which was more than was expected and unemployment dropped to 7.5% which is the lowest point in the last 4.5 years

Short answer, the economy is doing better than it has in a long time so less people NEED to sell, hence less supply of resale points.

I view Disney exercising ROFR as something on the demand side of the equation.
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Old 05-29-2013, 05:40 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by nalajms View Post
With an increase in ROFR, especially for loaded contracts, has anyone ever tried asking the sellers to transfer their points over prior to sending it to Disney? Or is that even legal?

Say there's a 200pt Aug UY with 200 pts banked from '11, 200pts for '12, and forward. Once a price is settled and buyer puts down an appropriate escrow, seller then transfers '12 points and maybe '13 points (if that's doable). This assumes buyer is already a member. If Disney takes the contract, seller's not out anything, buyer gets some points for the hassle. If buyer backs out, seller would get the escrow. Seems like a win-win idea
You'd need to have a private seller and you'd have to write the contract without the transferred points involved for it to be legal. There are MANY things you could try with a private seller you can't through a broker, some are illegal but many would be legal. The only way a seller would participate though would be if they had a vested interest in who got the contract such as a friend.
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