DVC RESALES
DVC RESALES

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Old 04-12-2013, 01:59 PM   #76
chalee94
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Originally Posted by bisney View Post
If by "my measure" you mean a basic financial definition that is accepted and used by investors, accounting firms, financial analysts, media, etc worldwide, then sure... materiality is just a buzz word that I made up.
i think you're just talking at cross-purposes. as a CPA, yes, i get what "materiality" means but when the disney corp big dogs are evaluating the heads of the parks division and DVC, i don't think "materiality" in the sense you are using it matters at all. Iger won't say "you missed your targets but that's really just "immaterial", so we're giving you bonuses anyway..."

but sure, it's true that most investors don't care whether DVC sales are up or down slightly when deciding whether to invest in DIS stock and if auditors find a misstatement on the DVC side, they might not force disney to restate their filings with the SEC...but i don't think that is the "material" point of the conversation...
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Old 04-12-2013, 02:30 PM   #77
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If by "my measure" you mean a basic financial definition that is accepted and used by investors, accounting firms, financial analysts, media, etc worldwide, then sure... materiality is just a buzz word that I made up.

Your functional DVC knowledge is second to none but if you can't accept a simple calculation using public information or when you dispute a basic term as commonly used as "materiality" then this conversation about DVC finances is going no where.
I'm familiar with the concept, albeit not as extensively as you apparently are. In the case of a diverse media empire like TWDC, I would think it more appropriately applied to each operating segment individually.

Nevertheless, I'm not entirely certain how this discussion segued from commentary on DVC's pricing and policies to the textbook definition of materiality.

The entire Parks & Resorts division only generates 19-20% of all Disney profits. Absent DVC, that number falls to 17-18%. Given the wide assortment of destinations and offerings bundled in that total, I would question whether any of them individually would be regarded as "material."
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Old 04-12-2013, 03:23 PM   #78
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I'm familiar with the concept, albeit not as extensively as you apparently are. In the case of a diverse media empire like TWDC, I would think it more appropriately applied to each operating segment individually.

Nevertheless, I'm not entirely certain how this discussion segued from commentary on DVC's pricing and policies to the textbook definition of materiality.

The entire Parks & Resorts division only generates 19-20% of all Disney profits. Absent DVC, that number falls to 17-18%. Given the wide assortment of destinations and offerings bundled in that total, I would question whether any of them individually would be regarded as "material."
Just wanted to say that even if it has gone a bit OT, I have found both of your contributions to this discussion interesting. Typically, if anyone dares suggest that DVD cares about or does anything whatsoever besides maximize their revenue from direct sales of DVC points, a vocal majority gets a collective case of the vapors. The other extreme, that DVD gives away points as a loss leader in order to pump other WDWC sales, would be equally implausible, and frankly not supported by the recent across-the-board price increases. But even if the definition of "materiality" isn't a topic that excites many, I am just pleased to see other voices acknowledging that there are more sophisticated lines of corporate strategy and tactics at work in WDWC besides DVD maximizing revenue from direct sales.
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Old 04-12-2013, 08:42 PM   #79
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Disney realized it had a big problem post 9/11 when the entire travel industry took an enormous hit. Since that time they have been running endless promotions (the latest "free dining" promotions are nowhere near as good as they have been in the past. By switching the focus to DVC they essentially guarantee bookings by forcing people to use their points each year. That is simply mitigating risk and trying to guarantee other revenue streams from tickets, meals, souvenirs, etc. It just so happens that they are trying to make a profit on DVC at the same time. Clearly the outlined business plan is more sophisticated than this, but I think it's possible that Disney execs had more than one goal that they were trying to accomplish with DVC.
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Old 04-13-2013, 06:53 AM   #80
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Disney realized it had a big problem post 9/11 when the entire travel industry took an enormous hit. Since that time they have been running endless promotions (the latest "free dining" promotions are nowhere near as good as they have been in the past. By switching the focus to DVC they essentially guarantee bookings by forcing people to use their points each year. That is simply mitigating risk and trying to guarantee other revenue streams from tickets, meals, souvenirs, etc. It just so happens that they are trying to make a profit on DVC at the same time. Clearly the outlined business plan is more sophisticated than this, but I think it's possible that Disney execs had more than one goal that they were trying to accomplish with DVC.
Not just possible, it is a near certainty. This also explains a lower incentive to "do something" about resales and renting than many people expect.

Excellent post.
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Old 04-13-2013, 08:57 AM   #81
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Disney realized it had a big problem post 9/11 when the entire travel industry took an enormous hit. Since that time they have been running endless promotions (the latest "free dining" promotions are nowhere near as good as they have been in the past. By switching the focus to DVC they essentially guarantee bookings by forcing people to use their points each year. That is simply mitigating risk and trying to guarantee other revenue streams from tickets, meals, souvenirs, etc. It just so happens that they are trying to make a profit on DVC at the same time. Clearly the outlined business plan is more sophisticated than this, but I think it's possible that Disney execs had more than one goal that they were trying to accomplish with DVC.
I said this concept on a thread and the replies were that DVD is not concerned with ticket sales, food purchases, anything other than selling points. I do believe the different divisions work together.

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Old 04-13-2013, 09:22 AM   #82
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I said this concept on a thread and the replies were that DVD is not concerned with ticket sales, food purchases, anything other than selling points. I do believe the different divisions work together.
I don't think what you are saying is what I am saying. I don't believe that the different divisions work together at all. DVD has to compensate the theme parks division for the VIP Fastpasses it gives out on tours. Each division is responsible for its own performance and profits. That doesn't sound like working together to me. What I am saying is that Disney's upper leadership has a vision,and that the different divisions execute their mission under the umbrella of that vision. So DVC exists for many reasons to the C level executives, but I don't think the head of DVC (whoever it is this week) cares much at all about theme park sales as a function of his job description.
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Old 04-13-2013, 02:48 PM   #83
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I don't think what you are saying is what I am saying. I don't believe that the different divisions work together at all. DVD has to compensate the theme parks division for the VIP Fastpasses it gives out on tours. Each division is responsible for its own performance and profits. That doesn't sound like working together to me. What I am saying is that Disney's upper leadership has a vision,and that the different divisions execute their mission under the umbrella of that vision. So DVC exists for many reasons to the C level executives, but I don't think the head of DVC (whoever it is this week) cares much at all about theme park sales as a function of his job description.
Absolutely true but each division may have internal metrics to show incremental value to other divisions (such as incremental ticket sales, food, other). It also provides additional value to brand promotion. The C level take all these into account when assessing the value of the division to the company of course.

I always wondered why they built Aulani. Seems it only serves to increase DVC sales and doesn't provide much synergy with the Theme Parks. Perhaps more enlightened folks can give me an answer.
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Old 04-13-2013, 03:13 PM   #84
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I don't think what you are saying is what I am saying. I don't believe that the different divisions work together at all. DVD has to compensate the theme parks division for the VIP Fastpasses it gives out on tours. Each division is responsible for its own performance and profits. That doesn't sound like working together to me. What I am saying is that Disney's upper leadership has a vision,and that the different divisions execute their mission under the umbrella of that vision. So DVC exists for many reasons to the C level executives, but I don't think the head of DVC (whoever it is this week) cares much at all about theme park sales as a function of his job description.
I like it when DVC tells you that they have to ask their business partners for something.

We had a major room maintenance issue and the resort didn't seem to care so I called a contact at DVC. They stated that all they could do is try to call someone that they know at the resort but that I would probably have more luck getting things done in person.

Doesn't sound like they are working together to me either.

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Old 04-13-2013, 03:39 PM   #85
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I always wondered why they built Aulani. Seems it only serves to increase DVC sales and doesn't provide much synergy with the Theme Parks. Perhaps more enlightened folks can give me an answer.
I have heard that the main targets for Aulani was the Japanese market and the West coast. When the Tsunami hit Japan and the ensuing nuclear problems that put a huge damper on sales. West Coasters had to contend with the bad economy and the huge MFs debacle.

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Old 04-13-2013, 08:21 PM   #86
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I have heard that the main targets for Aulani was the Japanese market and the West coast. When the Tsunami hit Japan and the ensuing nuclear problems that put a huge damper on sales. West Coasters had to contend with the bad economy and the huge MFs debacle.
Plus with "relatively" cheap flights to Hawaii from the west coast, we have the luxury of flexibility making 7m planning not nearly as difficult as off season can work on our favor making our lower costs points working just fine without the need to own there

We really considered buying there but figured we needed the 11m advantage more elsewhere.
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Old 04-13-2013, 09:13 PM   #87
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I always wondered why they built Aulani. Seems it only serves to increase DVC sales and doesn't provide much synergy with the Theme Parks.
Hawaii is viewed as a sort of "if you can't make it there, you can't make it anywhere" timeshare destination. (At least, it is when you consider most other timeshares don't have the rights to build on Disney property.)

Hawaii has great weather year-round. If you consider most other popular tourist destinations, that's usually not the case. Colorado ski resorts and many beach towns have their off season. Locations like NYC and DC present their own challenges, not the least of which is cost to build there.

Hawaii is a popular vacation destination which is relatively accessible to the entire US--particularly the west coast, of course.

Several years ago the head of DVC was quoted as saying 85% of its members lived east of the Mississippi. So I think DVC viewed that area as being a growth market...not just for the Japanese but among people living in the western US, too.

it adds great value to the program as a whole. There have been a lot of reports of members being disappointed with lack of availability at 7 months. DVC points at all resorts become an easier sell if they can claim "your points are not only good at the Disney parks but also Hilton Head, Vero Beach and Hawaii." Helps assuage the fears of potential buyers (or spouses) who are hesitant to commit to decades of stays at WDW or Disneyland.

I've also heard stories that it was a sort of pet project of a certain high-ranking Disney executive who is fond of the islands.

The tsunami is often mentioned as having harmed Aulani sales. Hawaii publishes extensive tourism figures and despite the tsunami in March 2011, Japanese tourist arrivals and spending increased every year from 2010 to 2012.

Aulani is such a large resort (nearly 500 rooms) that it was always going to be a very long-term project. Bay Lake Tower is nearly half the size and it took over 3 years to sell out. Impossible to know what sort of estimates DVC attached to Aulani but to me, it always looked like a project that would take 8-10 years to sell.
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Old 04-16-2013, 12:39 AM   #88
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very interesting input, in~deeds.

..i guess this thread is the reason i "pay" attention to this
group in the first place...is for the education. the exchanges
are making me realize what is likely going on behind the
dvc curtain.

my first guess- would be the "ruling class" have earned their
stripes via the world of business & have had high levels
of success. kudos to you but ..

i think the current majority of dvc owners feel there are plenty
room for improvements. and though i haven't express this
feeling, the "credit" for this is due to the resales market producing
new owners- that care about their purchase. in
2110, we took the member cruise to learn about fellow owners...
& we were shocked about those who own a ton of points
and they could care less how they were spent. their lack of
knowledge was only matched by not caring. that has been
changing with all the resales entering the "market place."
dvc need to make the necessary adjustments to keep pace.

while there are good points being made against, i do think that
the disney co. are working together, least @ the very upper levels. that
possibly, they use the lower levels "divide"-- for many reasons.
one being a buffer system to control their benefits & prevent losses.


my profession has given us the luxury of many successes. one
of the biggest reason i found long ago was to apply the
knowledge i learn from "human dynamics" to my own situation.
why? because they produced the positive outcomes ($) and /or
the desired results. in the 90's for example, a regional soap
box director asked me to start a new program in our area. it
takes major sponsorship-like $12,000 per year.
if i was going to do all of this then my primary objective was going
to be on the kids. i got them on the local radio & our newspaper did 3
stories a year. i just didn't make it rewarding for the winners, but for all
the participants. one of the unexpected reward was
whenever the kids see me, they still go out of their way to
say "thanks".

the point here, i feel dvc is in the people business too , and
they "need" to recognize & include these basic principles-
so their "presentation" to owners are important. i can't stress enough
how influential trust is- toward developing the necessary relationships
for $ support. and the worst things to do to lose it, is when you
break your promises or give false information-whether on
purpose or not. i don't have no problem remembering what we
informed by our guide.

another thing i learned from the kiddie program, success can
attract the wrong kind of attention. and when you are dealing
with other people $, it can become a big headache. i am hoping
dvc has covered these type of problems.

resales & renting do not have to be stop. but they do need to be
managed ..and if they ever lay all the cards on the table , it is
self evident how they can do so- with the order they should be
following. i am committed toward this program because we
invested all our vacations $ into it. while we are doing ok ,
we are not so rich not to care. again , there has been some
posting here things that are indicating wrong doings against
dvc rules & regulations. those i made copies of just in case.
all we expecting, is for our dvc investment meet our vacations
per what we paid for.
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