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Old 03-29-2013, 04:12 PM   #1
dbs1228
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Offer more then asking???

After having our 222 point BWV contract taken (55.00PP) I found a new contract we like 350 points BWV 60.00PP - 654 points coming June 1st. Offered full asking price.

Of course I still am not sure what is going on with the sellers since they told Fidelity in a email (when told about the sale) that they would call her Monday and that they were away. She indicated sellers remorse a possibility (?).

Since the contracts are not written I am wonder if I should go in around 62.00 - 65.00 although we are at the top of what we wanted to spend since we were in the market for 200 - 250 points. If this goes through I will sell my other SSR contract and stick with BLT and BWV so it is doable!

To add more stress to the situation I just spoke to my broker who is selling a contract for me and asked him about the price point that he thinks it will pass and he looked at the BWV contracts that have been taken back TODAY and rambled off Disney took 1 @ 64.00PP, 2 @ 69.00PP and 1 @ 66.00PP and he said the 64.00 did not have any points -coming later this year and they were not loaded contracts! He went on to say 1 did pass and it was for 60.00PP! I am not willing to go as high as 70.00PP.

WHAT TO DO????????
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Old 03-29-2013, 04:24 PM   #2
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I think you have to figure out what you feel comfortable spending and what you think the value of a BWV contract is. Obviously, given the list of prices the broker told you Disney ROFRed vs. the one they let through, means upping your price won't necessarily help get a contract by Disney.

Disney is momentarily buying up BWV contracts, something they'd never done in any real numbers before. Perhaps it's time to take the long view if you're interested in BWV and see if the ROFR activity keeps up this month and the following months. If you spend way more on a contract now than you were planning to and then the Disney interest in BWV dies, you'd be left with a contract you've vastly overpaid for to try and get past ROFR.

If there's a trip you need the points for, why not rent or transfer points from another member for it and continue to bid on BWV contracts on the price you value the contracts at. See where the market goes once the frenzy has died down. Breathe, it's okay!
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Old 03-29-2013, 05:10 PM   #3
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I agree - make an offer that fits your budget, and try not to worry too much about what you cannot control.

Sometimes I think that Disney lets contracts go pass ROFR if a current member is the buyer. But the truth is that no one really knows why or when Disney will exercise ROFR.

Good luck - if it's not this one, there will be another one.
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Old 03-29-2013, 05:47 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Missyrose View Post
Obviously, given the list of prices the broker told you Disney ROFRed vs. the one they let through, means upping your price won't necessarily help get a contract by Disney.

Disney is momentarily buying up BWV contracts, something they'd never done in any real numbers before. Perhaps it's time to take the long view if you're interested in BWV and see if the ROFR activity keeps up this month and the following months. If you spend way more on a contract now than you were planning to and then the Disney interest in BWV dies, you'd be left with a contract you've vastly overpaid for to try and get past ROFR.

See where the market goes once the frenzy has died down.
Great advise - thank you! NO I do not need any points any time soon! DH finally caved and said if i sell one of our SSR I can buy BWV - sold SSR and now I can buy BWV but I can't

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I agree - make an offer that fits your budget, and try not to worry too much about what you cannot control.

Sometimes I think that Disney lets contracts go pass ROFR if a current member is the buyer. But the truth is that no one really knows why or when Disney will exercise ROFR.

Good luck - if it's not this one, there will be another one.
I know I know I think I will keep the contract as is and roll the dice! I am not willing to go that much higher so if disney is going to take it there will be more contracts. But wow I could have some fun with those 654 points
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Old 03-29-2013, 07:13 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbs1228 View Post
After having our 222 point BWV contract taken (55.00PP) I found a new contract we like 350 points BWV 60.00PP - 654 points coming June 1st. Offered full asking price.

Of course I still am not sure what is going on with the sellers since they told Fidelity in a email (when told about the sale) that they would call her Monday and that they were away. She indicated sellers remorse a possibility (?).:
Technically, the seller's listing price was an offer to sell for that price and your agreeing was an acceptance. If you've sent a deposit with your offer, that technically completes the "contract."

If they now change their mind, there could be consequences to them. At a minimum, they would owe Fidelity the commission for selling the contract (about $2,100 by my calculation). Fidelity did their job bringing a seller and buyer together at the price the seller specified, so they would have every right to go after them for that (whether they actually would or not is questionable).

In the real world, however, if the seller won't sell, there is nothing much you can do about it. You could sue them to try to force them to live up to their contractural obligation, but the costs of doing that make it impractical. The commission thing doesn't help you unless Fidelity pushes it and that threat encourages the seller to go through with the sale.

I'd leave your offer where it is and be looking for other contracts. If they counter at a higher price, they are not dealing ethically with either you or Fidelity and I'd move on to another contract.
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Old 03-29-2013, 07:24 PM   #6
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When Fidelity called me back after I made the full price offer including paying closing and maintenance fees (didn't want sellers to have a reason to say no) Sharon said "I emailed the owners and well.... they are away right now and will call me back with an answer on Monday when they are home" me "what answer I am paying asking price I bought the contract correct?" (no deposit yet although they still have my deposit from the ROFR'd contract and I told her to use it towards this contract instead of refunding me) Sharon "Yes you should not have anything to worry about but they are going to call me Monday - sometimes sellers are not aware of the market.... and i will call you Monday" I asked her if they back out they still owe them their commission and she said "YES they do". We will see.

I think the funny part is I saw this contract on another site and everyone in the office was surprised that it was even posted since it was not set to go on their website until late afternoon - I saw it at 7:00AM.
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Old 03-30-2013, 12:09 AM   #7
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OP - I do not believe it's possible to predict what Disney will ROFR and I wouldn't increase an offer with the thought of trying to do so. I'd negotiate the optimum price I was willing to pay and let it play out one way or the other.

Also - it's a holiday weekend and if the seller was not able to sign and return a contract they may have simply wanted to acknowledge the email from the broker and tune out until Monday. Or might have just wanted not to deal with it during a holiday break. As mentioned they might be having second thoughts - or if it was just listed and they got a full price offer immediately they may be thinking they did not ask enough. Hoping for you that they just wanted to take the holiday off.

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Technically, the seller's listing price was an offer to sell for that price and your agreeing was an acceptance. If you've sent a deposit with your offer, that technically completes the "contract."
.
Doesn't that need to be written into the agreement between the seller and the broker? If so I don't know if Fidelity does that having only used other brokers to sell but it would seem not since they needed to present the offer.
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Old 03-30-2013, 05:54 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by JimMIA View Post
Technically, the seller's listing price was an offer to sell for that price and your agreeing was an acceptance. If you've sent a deposit with your offer, that technically completes the "contract."

If they now change their mind, there could be consequences to them. At a minimum, they would owe Fidelity the commission for selling the contract (about $2,100 by my calculation). Fidelity did their job bringing a seller and buyer together at the price the seller specified, so they would have every right to go after them for that (whether they actually would or not is questionable).
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Doesn't that need to be written into the agreement between the seller and the broker? If so I don't know if Fidelity does that having only used other brokers to sell but it would seem not since they needed to present the offer.
This was true with both the contracts I bought last year, from two different brokers. (One was TSS and the other was a different broker, but not Fidelity.) Both were rare, small contracts in my UY at desirable, sold-out resorts. So I called immediately and then hesitated about what to offer. Both times I was told if I offered (really "accepted") asking price, then the contract was mine, they would mark it sold. Legally forcing them to sell would be difficult, but as JimMIA mentioned, they'd owe the commission, and it would be highly unethical (and the broker shouldn't deal with them) if they tried to raise the price after the fact.

But to defuse the worry, maybe the broker spoke to the seller the same way, like, "We have a buyer who's accepted your deal." There's no rush to make a counter-offer, so maybe the seller is just treating the acceptance as routine paperwork they can take care of after the holiday.

Passing ROFR is an entirely separate matter, of course. I agree with MIssyrose on that one.
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Old 03-30-2013, 08:05 AM   #9
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Of course I still am not sure what is going on with the sellers since they told Fidelity in a email (when told about the sale) that they would call her Monday and that they were away. She indicated sellers remorse a possibility

WHAT TO DO????????
Try not to worry, we had exactly the same thing happen to us last May over Memorial Day weekend. We we dealing with Sharon from Fidelity also.

We we really nervous about it because we had just had to cancel a contract due to sellers not signing their closing documents. Moved on and found another contract and it "appeared" that the new sellers were dragging their feet too but it turns out they really just didn't want to deal with it over the holiday weekend.

Hang in there.......and best of luck with ROFR!
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Old 04-03-2013, 09:09 PM   #10
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Well finally got a update today - seller wants to up the price (by 10.00PP) of the contract legally they are not allowed sellers are from the UK not a lot of recourse if we want to pursue it. Fidelity did say they would owe the commission we just decided to walk away we did not want to deal with a seller like that. I have to say I felt Fidelity did a great job with the communication and kept after the seller,and kept me well informed. I am the one that felt it was not worth moving forward. Sharon did assure me that there are many more contracts that they have in house that need to be posted and she would work with me to find something.

I guess in a way I am relieved as much as I liked the contract we started out looking for a 200 - 250 point contract so now that is where our focus will be.
Third times a charm hopefully!
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Old 04-04-2013, 08:31 AM   #11
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Sorry you were disappointed, but you're probably better off. If this seller was this difficult to deal with just in the offer stage, imagine how they're going to be when they find out what it costs to get paperwork notarized in the UK!

Good luck in your search.
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Old 04-04-2013, 09:59 AM   #12
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I agree with the others who have said you need to stay with something within your budget. If you go above, you might be upset you did in the long run.

I know it feels like you need to rush out and grab these things up, we felt that way too when something good came up, but there will always be future contracts coming up to buy, so you never need to worry that this is the last one!

IMO, I'd think about how you'd feel if you missed out at a certain contract at a specific price pt. or would you almost be happy you didn't get it since it was too much money?
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Old 04-04-2013, 10:30 AM   #13
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Sorry that it didn't work out but I think having to deal with someone who is that quick to change their minds could have proved to be headache down the line and more time would be lost in terms of the process.

And, when I sold a contract and got a full price offer, the broker simply called to say "Your contract is sold...we will send you the paperwork as it is a full price offer..."

So, I do believe they are going to owe them the commission for the sale...I think that is what the paperwork says...of course, it will obviously be up to the broker on how to deal with it but I am glad they seemed to be upfront and onboard with you.

Good luck...a contract will come along and maybe, by the time it does, the ROFR happening for BWV will be a bit less and your will get one at a price more in line with what you were expecting to pay.
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Old 04-04-2013, 10:59 AM   #14
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Well finally got a update today - seller wants to up the price (by 10.00PP) of the contract legally they are not allowed sellers are from the UK not a lot of recourse if we want to pursue it. Fidelity did say they would owe the commission we just decided to walk away we did not want to deal with a seller like that. I have to say I felt Fidelity did a great job with the communication and kept after the seller,and kept me well informed. I am the one that felt it was not worth moving forward. Sharon did assure me that there are many more contracts that they have in house that need to be posted and she would work with me to find something.

I guess in a way I am relieved as much as I liked the contract we started out looking for a 200 - 250 point contract so now that is where our focus will be.
Third times a charm hopefully!
The seller would be dumb to pay the commission twice. It will end up costing them more with 10% x 2 Unless they just abandon Fidelity and relist with another broker. I wonder if Fidelity has taken any deposit from them first. I think the seller will come back to you once they learn about the double commission. At that time, ask them to pay for the closing costs for your inconvenience! So patience is the key. Like buying real estate, it's a mental game.
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Old 04-04-2013, 11:21 AM   #15
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Well finally got a update today - seller wants to up the price (by 10.00PP) ....
Wonder if they saw this thread?
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