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Old 03-23-2013, 07:49 AM   #46
lost*in*cyberspace
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I was also going to say that being advanced when you are in a classroom full of kids who could be a full year younger than you really isn't gifted.
Yes, that was my point. Early reading is great, but most kids catch up who are late readers by about third grade. If your child is truly gifted, she would be showing it in other areas as well.

Again, I think the OP should start with having her daughter tested to see if she really is gifted or if there is another issue. Then start worrying about appropriate school placement.
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Old 03-23-2013, 08:01 AM   #47
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Wow so many "gifted" and "extremely gifted". I am a teacher and have six kids. Funny, I never actually met one myself.

You will be amazed at what can happen in a few years. Your gifted child may end up average, the average ones may take off. Reading levels don't always predict how a child will do in the long run. One of my daughters did not read until third grade. She is off to nursing school in the fall. She is not gifted or extremely smart. She is a hard worker and motivated.

Also, I think your daughter is too old for Kindergarten. She should be in first grade. My oldest two were the youngest in their class (one born in November when the cut off was December 31 and the other August but they changed it to Aug. 31) and they did fine. They were in class with kids a year, sometimes a year and a half older than them. I was always upset about the fact that my daughter was in classes at 13 Freshman year with a 16 year old freshman (who was held back with a January birthday or stayed back). I don't get the whole "red shirting" thing. Move your daughter to the right grade and then maybe she won't stand out so much (many first graders read at a fourth grade level but don't achieve at that level in other areas) and maybe she won't be so "bored".
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Old 03-23-2013, 08:41 AM   #48
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I was a sixteen year old senior and gifted.

Academically, it was fine. Socially, I always thought it was fine until I had to make the "red shirt or push" decision with my Late Summer/Fall Babies - then I remembered that as a sixteen year old high school senior I was dating a 21 year old guy. He thought I was eighteen, because that is how old you are as a senior. That I was living in a dorm eight hours away from home at seventeen.

I was a mature kid and while I had a bumpy couple of years as a young adult from growing up a little fast, they weren't actually that bumpy. But I could have easily gotten in over my head.

A year ahead makes very little difference for most of your life - basically your entire adult life no one cares if you are 30 or 31. But the difference between being sixteen in a class where there are eighteen year olds (and nineteen year olds who have been held back) is a big difference.

My own kids are among the oldest in their class. Not for the academics - my daughter is very bright and could handle a grade above her - but because I don't want them in dorms at seventeen. And I'm one of the most permissive parents on this board who really believes in giving my kids a lot of independence - I'm definitely a "free range" parent.
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Old 03-23-2013, 08:56 AM   #49
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[QUOTE=dogluva;47884825]Wow so many "gifted" and "extremely gifted". I am a teacher and have six kids. Funny, I never actually met one myself.

QUOTE]

I think this goes to prove my point that many teachers can't identify giftedness. There is great debate on the actual percentages, but on the low end giftedness should run about 6% of the population, and by some estimates quite a bit higher. Certainly children with above average intelligence to the point of being labeled gifted should be no more unusual then children with below average intelligence to the point of being labeled. I doubt you have never met a gifted child, you have probably met many you just didn't realize it.
Which frankly, brings in to question YOUR education.
I think when we look at how many kids need special education services in our school system vs. how many get special services for being above average , we can clearly see there is a problem in our schools. First is that special ed kids bring with them loads more funding. Second is that the system model is to make everyone reach a base profciency, not help everyone learn to the best of their ability. Third there are a lot of kids (all?) who would benefit from increasing gym, recess, hands on learning like field trips and all the other things that have gotten stripped from many of our schools. Although I don't doubt that there are many kids labeled with ADD and need special help and medications to get through school, I don't think for many it is THEIR problem. It is the school. Sitting still all day long listening to lecture and doing worksheets isn't condusive to many adult's learning styles, certainly not kids. OP's kid may be gifted, she may be bright and mature, or she may not like school for any other reason, but school and parents (as OP appears to be trying to do) should be doing what they can now to avoid problems in the future and help her child have an enjoyable begining education experience.

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Old 03-23-2013, 08:58 AM   #50
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Wow

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Originally Posted by dogluva View Post
Wow so many "gifted" and "extremely gifted". I am a teacher and have six kids. Funny, I never actually met one myself.

You will be amazed at what can happen in a few years. Your gifted child may end up average, the average ones may take off. Reading levels don't always predict how a child will do in the long run. One of my daughters did not read until third grade. She is off to nursing school in the fall. She is not gifted or extremely smart. She is a hard worker and motivated.

Also, I think your daughter is too old for Kindergarten. She should be in first grade. My oldest two were the youngest in their class (one born in November when the cut off was December 31 and the other August but they changed it to Aug. 31) and they did fine. They were in class with kids a year, sometimes a year and a half older than them. I was always upset about the fact that my daughter was in classes at 13 Freshman year with a 16 year old freshman (who was held back with a January birthday or stayed back). I don't get the whole "red shirting" thing. Move your daughter to the right grade and then maybe she won't stand out so much (many first graders read at a fourth grade level but don't achieve at that level in other areas) and maybe she won't be so "bored".
While I agree with most of what you said I'm surprised that as a teacher you said you've never met a truely gifted child. There are definitely kids who have taught themselves to read at 2.5 and do long division at 4. (My DD was one and I have met 4 others as a teacher/parent.) You don't know of any kids who are taking math 3-4 years ahead of their peers? Or any with an IQ over 150? Yes, many gifted programs include "smart" kids but I would have to think that there are 1-2 every year who really stand out as being much too advanced for where they are. DD's grade of 400 has 3 kids who skipped and they are all doing very well. I get the feeling you don't believe what we are saying. My other child is above average and in the "gifted" program, but he does not stand out in any way like she does.

I was warned that DD might just be very strong "out of the gate". So far that is not the case as she is taking the hardest load possible in 9th grade and has an A average. She is not as motivated as some kids that might not be as naturally smart so she will not be Valedictorian. She is just now learning how to work hard since she never had to before.

Many of the stories here are not about children but about adults who dealt with this as children. I think that's a nice perspective to have as well.

Good luck OP. I know it is a hard decision.
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Old 03-23-2013, 09:00 AM   #51
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Thank you

[QUOTE=pocomom;47885218]
Quote:
Originally Posted by dogluva View Post
Wow so many "gifted" and "extremely gifted". I am a teacher and have six kids. Funny, I never actually met one myself.

QUOTE]

I think this goes to prove my point that many teachers can't identify giftedness. There is great debate on the actual percentages, but on the low end giftedness should run about 6% of the population, and by some estimates quite a bit higher. Certainly children with above average intelligence to the point of being labeled gifted should be no more unusual then children with below average intelligence to the point of being labeled. I doubt you have never met a gifted child, you have probably met many you just didn't realize it.
Which frankly bring in to question YOUR education.
I think when we look at how many kids need special education services in our school system vs. how many get special services for being above average , we can clearly see there is a problem in our schools. First is that special ed kids bring with them loads more funding. Second is that the system model is to make everyone reach a base profciency, not help everyone learn to the best of their ability. Third there are a lot of kids (all?) who would benefit from increasing gym, recess, hands on learning like field trips and all the other things that have gotten stripped from many of our schools. Although I don't doubt that there are many kids labeled with ADD and need special help and medications to get through school, I don't think for many it is THEIR problem. It is the school. Sitting still all day long listening to lecture and doing worksheets isn't condusive to many adult's learning styles, certainly not kids. OP's kid may be gifted, she may be bright and mature, or she may not like school for any other reason, but school and parents (as OP appears to be trying to do) should be doing what they can now to avoid problems in the future and help her child have an enjoyable begining education experience.
You said what I wanted to but I was holding back..
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Old 03-23-2013, 09:37 AM   #52
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It would definitely be the maturity factor I would worry about. I have a 6 year old kindergartner and an 8 year old second grader. I couldn't imaging my 6 year old going to 2nd grade next year. My DD6 likes to play cats, and my DD8 is having sleepovers and listening to One Direction on her Ipod. I'm guessing since it's a small school there is not a gifted program or teacher? Maybe you could spend some time visiting with the second grade and get a feel for the level of the kids maturity before deciding whether it would be a good fit for your daughter.
It is so different in other places- my daughter was 6 when she was in 2nd grade I can't even imagine a 6 year old still in kindergarten. Here many kids will be 16 when they are high school seniors- its not odd at all. My daughter has a late birthday so she was 4 for the first 1/3 of kindergarten as were many other kids. She goes to high school next year and so far she has no issues being the youngest one in class, she says she actually likes it. Sure the other kids will drive before she does, but I had the same thing-I skipped a grade and then graduated 6 months early so I was only 16 when I graduated-didn't bother me other than for a few months I had to take a public bus or catch a ride to college, that sucked a bit but didn't last long.
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Old 03-23-2013, 09:44 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by lost*in*cyberspace

Yes, that was my point. Early reading is great, but most kids catch up who are late readers by about third grade. If your child is truly gifted, she would be showing it in other areas as well.

Again, I think the OP should start with having her daughter tested to see if she really is gifted or if there is another issue. Then start worrying about appropriate school placement.
Yes, this. Early reading doesn't have a strong correlation to high achievement in future years, as in, just because a child is an early reader doesn't mean they are going to be rocket scientists. However, late reading does have a stronger correlation to poor achievement. Students who are not reading fluently by the end of grade 3 have a small percentage of ever being fully literate. Something like less than 20% without significant intervention. Early math is actually a stronger marker for "giftedness". Children who can can demonstrate math fluency ( can show you that 2 x 3 = 6, then 6 / 3 must equal 2) without being taught, or can rebuild their Lego design upside down, or a mirror image of it whe asked. Things like that are strong markers.
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Old 03-23-2013, 10:13 AM   #54
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Wow so many "gifted" and "extremely gifted". I am a teacher and have six kids. Funny, I never actually met one myself.
I really don't think it's unusual. This is a board with posters from all over and a thread with about 50 posts. I'm not surprised to see posts about gifted or extremely gifted kids. Davidson's is full of kids who are PG/HG, kids who are out there.

Reading is DS's "gift" but his K teacher didn't realize his capabilities until I mentioned in passing to the READ teacher what he was reading. That's when they took a closer look and started working with him. He can read pretty much anything you put in front of him as well as spell it. He is at a 12th grade level for reading now. His middle school teachers are able to enrich his work by providing books that go into more depth and research about topics. He also likes age appropriate books because that's what his friends read.

He comes across as a "normal" kid until you look at test scores or certain topics. Being gifted doesn't mean he doesn't appear like a typical kid or act like one sometimes. It means his brain works differently and it doesn't take him several tries before he picks up new material. That's why even though math isn't his thing, he can pick it up easily.

It gets offensive when people question giftedness. It's not unheard of but there is such a negative connotation when it gets brought up.
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Old 03-23-2013, 11:12 AM   #55
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I think the point people are trying to make is that many people have an inflated belief of what gifted means.

I remember well my children not being interested in the alphabet etc. and having to listen to all the parents bragging about how gifted their child was because they knew all their letters. I admit, I always thought "let's compare GPAs when they are in high school!" (not that GPA always reflects giftedness, sometimes it goes the other way.)

I've spent years reassuring parents that not reading in K often doesn't mean anything other than they aren't ready yet. Yet we don't really talk much about how reading in K doesn't mean they are gifted - they're just early readers. (Although some people can be both!) As others have said, developmentally age 8, 3rd grade, is usually seen as the marker for when you should have really clicked into reading. Before that, it's kind of like when some people lose their baby teeth earlier than others.

I've seen gifted kids who don't read early, because they're too busy investigating other things that are important to them. I'm much more likely to suspect high intelligence based on how they evaluate their surroundings than by how interested they are in the alphabet.
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Old 03-23-2013, 11:23 AM   #56
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Is there standardized testing for being diagnosed as 'gifted' or is it a state by state issue?
We have a bright 3 year old who is in a private school who's "blowing through the work" the children two years older are learning. We found a school that works with her at her level rather than sticks to an inflexible curriculum. She needs the mental stimulation and we couldn't imagine holding her back to start kindergarten which starts at age 4 here in Canada.

School seems more streamlined here where nearly all the children start at 4 for kindergarten, 6 for grade one, graduating at 17 and off to post secondary for 18. Sometimes it's a slight bit later or earlier but that just depends on where your birthday falls in the calendar year.

This 'red shirting' I read about here isn't something that happens here as far as I know. School is for education. Sure, for the kids, social life comes into play hugely as they age but using that as a gauge as to when to put them in school as opposed to what's best for their schooling I find surprising.

Every family must do what's right for their own situation but I do think school's main focus should be on education.

One unfortunate thing about private school is the cost great reduces the amount of Disney trips in our future LOL (but she's worth it).
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Old 03-23-2013, 11:31 AM   #57
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I haven't read all the other responses, but thought I'd share my experience. There is a college prep school in my area which I tested into and allowed me to skip 5th and 6th grades. While at that school I was surrounded with other kids who had also skipped 1, 2 or 3 grades, but after one year my parents could no longer afford the high tuition and I transferred to public school. Academically it was fine, but socially it was very challenging. I fit in and made friends just fine, but not being able to drive, date, and stay out at the same time as peers was difficult. I felt as though I had to be as responsible as classmates when it came to academics but socially I was being treated like a child. It put a strain on my relationship with my parents because I felt it was a double standard. I understand now as a parent it's just not possible to give the same freedoms to a 16 graduating high school as an 18 year old but at the time it was very frustrating.
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Old 03-23-2013, 11:33 AM   #58
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Is there standardized testing for being diagnosed as 'gifted' or is it a state by state issue?.

I don't know the answer to that. When I was in school and was tested for the gifted program, I was given an IQ test and my entrance was based on those results. That was in Pennsylvania in about 1990.
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Old 03-23-2013, 11:44 AM   #59
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Of course she's bored! She's 6 years old and in kindergarten and only goes 3x/week!

Let them put her in 2nd grade for the coming school year. Over the summer, get her some of the workbooks (you can get them at Staples, Target, or any educational store) and help her to learn all the 1st grade math, etc and then start bridge books to get her from 1st to 2nd grade math, etc. I would concentrate on ALL the subjects, not just math.

Great that she's reading so young. My daughter was the same way. She entered kindergarten at 4 years old but was already reading/comprehending on a higher level. She never got "bored" but her reading skills were way ahead of the pack.
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Old 03-23-2013, 12:53 PM   #60
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I have not read other replies, but my daughter was in a similar situation so thought I would give my experience. She did not go to preschool bc she did not test with any need, and I was a stay at home mom. She was a spontaneous reader at 3 years old. When she went to kindergarten she did not fit in. She was way above other kids socially, emotionally, and academically. The teacher suggested we think about skipping her. I was reluctant at first, but by halfway through the school year she was very unhappy in school. She had given up napping 3 years earlier, they were working on letters and numbers when she wanted to do math and read. We decided to start the long process.

This is where I caution other parents....just because your child is ahead in reading or whatever, is not reason to skip. A full grade skip is a big deal, and if they can just accelerate a subject or two and be happy, I think that is typically better. There have been negatives as well as positives. Anyway, it was the teacher, not us, that initiated the process. Her first step was to test for and enter the gifted program. After that, she had to visit with the guidance counselor for assessing. Then, the school did the Iowa acceleration scale, which is a process that determines if a child should skip a grade. If your school is not willing to do this, I wouldn't skip. This process includes a board (parents, teachers, counselor, etc) who together grade the child with questions. She also had a psychologist administer an iq test. Finally she had to test for 1st grade (grade she skipped) and second grade (grade she would enter).

She ended up being an excellent candidate to skip, but she had a couple areas to get caught up in, science and social studies...things that are typically covered in 1st grade that she simply just hadn't learned. I was responsible for her learning that over the summer. She is now in 4th grade and does very well. Straight As, has friends, etc.

Some cons....some kids were not that nice about her skipping. It's important your child has a personality that can handle a complete change of peers and friends. Also, she is way younger than everyone else in her grade, and while we try to treat her older, we won't be able to do anything about driving age, movie ages, etc that her peers will be old enough for when she's not.

Also, skipping has not really solved anything as far as academics go. She tested in the "genius" range, and I say that not to brag, but what I didn't quite realize is skipping was never going to be enough. Even with gifted work she still is not challenged enough in school and she is bored still. She does however socially fit better in her group, and we would not consider skipping her again. We are hopeful middle school will give her more of a challenge in a couple of years.

In hindsight, I still think skipping was what she needed at the time and is happier for it, but I still worry for the teen years, it is still an unknown. Also, I lost a year with my baby she will be off to college and out of the house forever a full year ahead of where she would have been.

In a perfect world, I would have moved her to a private school that could give her a more individualized lesson plan that catered to her needs, but we just can't afford that, and her public school has done what it can to accommodate her, and overall she is a very happy girl
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