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Old 01-28-2013, 10:00 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Mouse14 View Post
I've been keeping up with this thread but I have one question mildly off topic that I don't understand ... Why does everyone dislike the hat? I like it! It's an iconic peice...
It was originally Disney-MGM studios. The park was about movies in general, not just Disney.

The theater represented that vision of the park. The issue isn't just the hat but the fact that the hat blocked much of the view of something we liked. I'd have less of an issue if the HAT was always there and didn't block something attractive. I might even have less of an issue if the HAT part of some kind of attraction. To ruin the view for a pin stand. A negative impact without a real positive impact.

Almost all of the back lot tour is gone but we have the Stunt Show, Toy Story Mania....
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Old 01-28-2013, 10:08 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Lewisc

It was originally Disney-MGM studios. The park was about movies in general, not just Disney.

The theater represented that vision of the park. The issue isn't just the hat but the fact that the hat blocked much of the view of something we liked. I'd have less of an issue if the HAT was always there and didn't block something attractive. I might even have less of an issue if the HAT part of some kind of attraction. To ruin the view for a pin stand. A negative impact without a real positive impact.

Almost all of the back lot tour is gone but we have the Stunt Show, Toy Story Mania....
One could make the case that the hat is representative of fantasmic. It'd be a weak point but a point none the less
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Old 01-28-2013, 11:39 AM   #33
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The real Chinese Theatre opened in 1927. Architectural works from prior to 1976 are not protected by U.S. copyright law. In 1976, Congress changed the law for anything new since then.

Trademarks are another matter. Disney might have a problem if it used the name Grauman’s Chinese Theatre without permission from its owners—but Disney doesn’t do so. The signs on the building all say Great Movie Ride, not Grauman’s Chinese Theatre.

Taken from article.
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Old 01-28-2013, 11:43 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by manning View Post
Trademarks are another matter. Disney might have a problem if it used the name Grauman’s Chinese Theatre without permission from its owners—but Disney doesn’t do so.
From: https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/at...at-movie-ride/

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Step back in time as you behold a full-scale reproduction of Grauman’s Chinese Theatre.
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Old 01-28-2013, 01:53 PM   #35
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Even if they do reference Grauman's, That's a separate issue.

as was mentioned, the building itself is uncopyrightable and Disney had every right to build their own. The law didn't go into effect until 1990 and the building was built prior to 1989.

So Grauman's has no copyright to hold over Disney and therefore there is no picture taking limitation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyrig..._United_States
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Last edited by YoHo; 01-28-2013 at 02:46 PM.
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Old 01-28-2013, 02:36 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by mbrou24 View Post
One could make the case that the hat is representative of fantasmic. It'd be a weak point but a point none the less
You could. Fantasmic wasn't part of the original park. My objection to the hat isn't the hat itself as much as what the hat is blocking.

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Originally Posted by YoHo View Post
Even if they do reference Grauman's, That's a separate issue.

as was mentioned, the building itself is uncopyrightable and Disney had every right to build there own. The law didn't go into effect until 1990 and the building was built prior to 1989.

So Grauman's has no copyright to hold over Disney and therefore there is no picture taking limitation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyrig..._United_States
We're not lawyers. At least I'm not, and I suspect most posters aren't. A company can register a building as a trademark. Not the same as a copyright but close enough for purposes of non-legal discussion. A trademark holder can certainly restrict use of a trademark for commercial transactions.

I'm persuaded Disney thought the Hat was an improvement is the most likely explanation. I accept the possibility there were reasons relating to photography.
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Old 01-28-2013, 02:42 PM   #37
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First things first... Lets get rid of that godawful stage in front of the hat. That REALLY needs to go... It's terribly ugly.
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Old 01-28-2013, 03:15 PM   #38
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I cannot find any trademark info for the building. I did see a cancelled trademark for various housewares filed by Chinese theaters in 1997 and cancelled in 2009. Those years don't match up with the BAH particularly well.

Also the Copyright law I referenced above also has a provision for photography.

http://law.wustl.edu/journal/2/p517spence.pdf

Quote:
Congressional recognition of
building photographs in the public domain comes from the legislative
history; where Congress noted the prevalence of vacation mementos
consisting of photos of famous works of architecture created by a
large number of originators.
And that same link is discussing Rock and Roll Hall of Fame vs. Gentile Productions.

I am no lawyer, but what I've read makes it clear that restricting photography of the building would have been very very hard.
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Old 01-28-2013, 03:26 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mouse14 View Post
I've been keeping up with this thread but I have one question mildly off topic that I don't understand ... Why does everyone dislike the hat? I like it! It's an iconic peice...
It's just a mega-decoration, like those at the All Stars and Pop Century resorts. Such decorations are fine for the value resorts because they provide some sense of fun that differentiates them from Motel 6 and Comfort Inn.

But Disney's (and Universal's) theme parks are supposed to immerse us in other places and other times, with tapestries of skillfully designed details and unfolding perspectives. That's what the Studios park had -- before the silly hat. The stage in front of the hat makes it even worse.

Compare the view up the park's Hollywood Blvd. with the wonderful view down the park's Sunset Blvd. toward the Tower of Terror.
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Old 01-28-2013, 03:35 PM   #40
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Horace Horsecollar!!

I remember you from back when I was very active here. And I want to tell you, I couldn't have said it any better myself!! And I would have used 3 times as many words!!

Well said!!!
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Old 01-28-2013, 04:04 PM   #41
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I don't know if anyone has mentioned his, but the Chinese theater just changed ownership and is now known as "TCL Chinese Theater". Maybe this new company is having issues with the replica.

I never liked the hat. It seems so out of place and it blocks the true focal point of the street. I feel like thy should get rid of the hat and bring the Earful Tower as the parks image.
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Old 01-28-2013, 04:05 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YoHo View Post
I cannot find any trademark info for the building. I did see a cancelled trademark for various housewares filed by Chinese theaters in 1997 and cancelled in 2009. Those years don't match up with the BAH particularly well.
It's not just the building itself. It is my understanding that artwork on a structure is subject to standard copyright protections which predate the 1990 architecture provisions.

Look at the enormous mural above the entrance doors and the smaller artwork to the left and right of that. It all matches the original theater in Hollywood. I'm not convinced that the entire structure could have been duplicated to such exacting detail without some permission / licensing on Disney's part.

Quote:
I am no lawyer, but what I've read makes it clear that restricting photography of the building would have been very very hard.
The issue isn't so much restrictions on photography--it's restrictions which may have accompanied Disney's licensing of building elements and the "Grauman's Chinese Theater" name.

Again I'll bring up the MGM logo issue. Disney licensed it for use within the park (archway above animation courtyard), on park maps, on t-shirts and other merchandise...but they were prohibited from displaying the MGM logo in certain marketing materials. The annual VHS / DVD mail-away promo videos always had the logo digitally removed and the park was referred to as "Disney Studios."

Not an exact parallel by any means but it does illustrate that these agreements contain restrictions which often seem nonsensical.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Horace Horsecollar View Post
But Disney's (and Universal's) theme parks are supposed to immerse us in other places and other times, with tapestries of skillfully designed details and unfolding perspectives. That's what the Studios park had -- before the silly hat. The stage in front of the hat makes it even worse.
Exactly the reason why I have so much trouble believing that the hat is simply there because some marketing suit claims it will move more merchandise than the Earful Tower or Chinese Theater.
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Old 01-28-2013, 04:20 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbrou24 View Post
One could make the case that the hat is representative of fantasmic. It'd be a weak point but a point none the less
I only consider it weak because of the location. If the BAH were somewhere down by Fantasmic, I'd be fine with it. Not right on Sunset, but maybe further down by the theater, or even out front somewhere (without blocking other important sightlines of course).
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Old 01-28-2013, 04:49 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjkraz View Post
It's not just the building itself. It is my understanding that artwork on a structure is subject to standard copyright protections which predate the 1990 architecture provisions.

Look at the enormous mural above the entrance doors and the smaller artwork to the left and right of that. It all matches the original theater in Hollywood. I'm not convinced that the entire structure could have been duplicated to such exacting detail without some permission / licensing on Disney's part.



The issue isn't so much restrictions on photography--it's restrictions which may have accompanied Disney's licensing of building elements and the "Grauman's Chinese Theater" name.

Again I'll bring up the MGM logo issue. Disney licensed it for use within the park (archway above animation courtyard), on park maps, on t-shirts and other merchandise...but they were prohibited from displaying the MGM logo in certain marketing materials. The annual VHS / DVD mail-away promo videos always had the logo digitally removed and the park was referred to as "Disney Studios."

Not an exact parallel by any means but it does illustrate that these agreements contain restrictions which often seem nonsensical.
There is no indication that the Chinese theater or any part of it is copyrighted. Copyrights and trademarks are public record.
But again, Disney clearly obtained the rights either via contract or just simply because the law allowed them to. And taking photographs of famous architecture is considered fair use. It's Disney's building, not TCL's or WB/Paramount's or Mann's. For the contract to restrict photopass, it would have to be a vary complexly worded contract that at the time of construction, Disney probably wouldn't have even been required to enter into.


Quote:
Exactly the reason why I have so much trouble believing that the hat is simply there because some marketing suit claims it will move more merchandise than the Earful Tower or Chinese Theater.
You have a whole lot more faith in the intelligence of Disney in the late 90s early 2000s than pretty much anyone. I have more trouble believing there was anyone smart enough to realize Earful or the Theater were better logos. Certainly they weren't smart enough to do anything useful with the park from an attractions point of view. Why believe they "Got" the logo issue?
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Old 01-28-2013, 04:50 PM   #45
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I'm with raidermatt. The hat is not terrible, but the location is.
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