A question regarding the growth of WDW

[DVC-Landbaron]

Taken from this thread:
http://disboards.com/showthread.php?...ght=chandelier


OK. I haven't told a Walt story in a long time (Alright. No eyeball rolls. It's not very long). I think it may clarify things:

Seems there was a particular time in the building of Disneyland when money was especially tight. Roy was trying his absolute best to keep things under control. The banks were breathing down his neck, business investment were drying up and his personal bank account didn't look much better. While musing about his lot in life on this particular dreary day, he was handed an invoice. The invoice was for a chandelier for one of the fast food restaurants. It cost thousands of dollars. In 1954 it was a small fortune. Roy was fed up. Time to have it out with Brother Walt. He found Walt and went off on him. He told Walt that he'd never sell enough burgers to ever get a pay back. He said that it was frivolous and a waste. Walt, so the story goes, listened and tried to explain that it was his goal to give the guest something that he wouldn't get anywhere else in the world. And if someone, sitting eating his fast food, admired this chandelier and it added to their experience just a little bit, the company would get a bigger payback than could ever be noted on a balance sheet. Roy and Walt didn't talk for weeks after that. But Roy paid for the chandelier.

OK! Back to real time. What’d ya think?

[hopemax]

Originally Posted by DVC-Landbaron

(HOPE!!! HELP!!!!)

With what, my dear Baron?

I'm also curious about YoHo's Excel spreadsheet. I want a copy.

Earlier in this thread, I was almost tempted to make a longish reply but I'm still debating if the knowledge gap has gotten too big, Disney has fallen to the point that I don't care what they do now, and my Disney discussion skills have gotten rusty. My E-ticket Magazines are still packed in the box from when we moved into our house in 2009, for goodness sake!

You all have moved on from what I wanted to ramble on about. So I don't know.

[dwaters]

Originally Posted by DVC-Landbaron

Sorry YoHo, but it needs to be BIGGER!!!

A giant Buzz is like being punched in the face with a set of brass knuckles with the Disney Logo on them.

Thanks!!

Yet Buzz is tiny in comparison to some of the egos on display in this thread.

Not sure if you realize how condescending you come off.

So, is the Cinderella Castle a decoration as well?

[rantnnravin]

Originally Posted by DVC-Landbaron

Last one and I think I'm caught up!!


Ah! A common mistake. And really no problem to clear this up. You see, there is no difference in the “Disney Experience”, from “E” to “A”. What there is a difference is in concept, length, ride vehicle, etc., etc., etc. Let me see if I can illustrate it for you.

You have Pirates. Probably universally considered the zenith of Disney Magic! An “E” Ticket if there ever was one! And on the other side of the coin you have the horse drawn carriage or the omnibus rolling down Main Street. An “A” Ticket if ever there was one.

You cannot possibly charge (and that’s what we’re talking about in ticket differences) the same for riding on that bus as you could charge for the Pirates. Could you? NO!! But the experience, The Disney Experience, is absolutely the same! Same attention to detail, same immersive theme, same everything!! The only difference is the concept (big or little) itself. A resort, on the other hand, is a place to stay while in Disney. There’s no such thing as a smaller concept in spending the night!! You’re either spending the night or you’re not!!


Does that make sense?

Sure Baron, what you say makes perfect sense...BBBBUUUUUUUUUUUUUTTT....

You missed the very last ( and, in this case, most important) line of my post:

that in mind, is there then, truly NO way to offer A- thru E-ticket resorts?

and that's where the speculation must come in. What COULD they have done to provide consistency of experience with differing levels? What factors would make a "C-ticket" or "B-ticket" resort different from an "E-ticket"?

[hopemax]

Alright, here's my thing with the 35 foot Buzz Lightyear?

What's its purpose? Take the newest value Art of Animation. Now I have some issues with that resort, but I do like the Cars area. Guido & Luigi are my favorite. And I like the traffic cone cabanas and I like the cars. It's built to a scale to put you in the middle of their world.

I could maybe get behind some sort of attempt to replicate Andy's House and Room. Put you in the middle of the Toy Story world where you are one of the other toys. But you don't accomplish that with a giant Buzz Lightyear. Unless you are building something to scale for one of Buster's fleas. Based on the scale of most of the pieces, I think we're supposed to be feeling more Honey, I Shrunk the Kids than Toy Story. But maybe we are supposed to be the flea.

[Peter Pirate 2]

Originally Posted by dwaters

Yet Buzz is tiny in comparison to some of the egos on display in this thread.

Not sure if you realize how condescending you come off.

So, is the Cinderella Castle a decoration as well?

This made me truly laugh out loud and yes I'm laughing at my less than eloquent self (in comparison) as well.

[Peter Pirate 2]

Originally Posted by DVC-Landbaron

Taken from this thread:
http://disboards.com/showthread.php?...ght=chandelier


OK. I haven't told a Walt story in a long time (Alright. No eyeball rolls. It's not very long). I think it may clarify things:

Seems there was a particular time in the building of Disneyland when money was especially tight. Roy was trying his absolute best to keep things under control. The banks were breathing down his neck, business investment were drying up and his personal bank account didn't look much better. While musing about his lot in life on this particular dreary day, he was handed an invoice. The invoice was for a chandelier for one of the fast food restaurants. It cost thousands of dollars. In 1954 it was a small fortune. Roy was fed up. Time to have it out with Brother Walt. He found Walt and went off on him. He told Walt that he'd never sell enough burgers to ever get a pay back. He said that it was frivolous and a waste. Walt, so the story goes, listened and tried to explain that it was his goal to give the guest something that he wouldn't get anywhere else in the world. And if someone, sitting eating his fast food, admired this chandelier and it added to their experience just a little bit, the company would get a bigger payback than could ever be noted on a balance sheet. Roy and Walt didn't talk for weeks after that. But Roy paid for the chandelier.

OK! Back to real time. What’d ya think?

Now that is what I was waiting for but far less impassioned than I imagined. Nonetheless, thanks!

[bcrook]

Originally Posted by hopemax

Alright, here's my thing with the 35 foot Buzz Lightyear?

What's it's purpose? Take the newest value Art of Animation. Now I have some issues with that resort, but I do like the Cars area. Guido & Luigi are my favorite. And I like the traffic cone cabanas and I like the cars. It's built to a scale to put you in the middle of their world.

I could maybe get behind some sort of attempt to replicate Andy's House and Room. Put you in the middle of the Toy Story world where you are one of the other toys. But you don't accomplish that with a giant Buzz Lightyear. Unless you are building something to scale for one of Buster's fleas. Based on the scale of most of the pieces, I think we're supposed to be feeling more Honey, I Shrunk the Kids than Toy Story. But maybe we are supposed to be the flea.

I didn't see that coming! Nice! I am enjoying the posts! Sadly, I have very little to offer, I am too embroiled in the horrors of MyMagic+, but that is a different thread (a long and wild one at that).

But, I do have this story about my short tour of Pop Century last summer. My daughter and I wandered around the Art of Animation resort and didn't find it much to our liking. It still felt to much like a motel, and even though the pool was cool to look at, the shadeless sea of concrete drained me of any joy I might have found. We walked across the lovely bridge to Pop. I circled the buildings a little confused. What we didn't like were the "stockades" at the front to wait for the buses. Once again, endless concrete, winding keys, and those chains to keep everyone in place.

It was such a shock from walking out of the Polynesian lush gardens onto the monorail! Or, sitting casually in the wooden huts at Kidani. We were sad by the visit, and vowed to never return.

[DVC-Landbaron]

Now that is what I was waiting for but far less impassioned than I imagined. Nonetheless, thanks!

You are very welcome, My friend!!

It is less impassioned because it is one paragraph out of a thread that is very, very, long and very, very impassioned!! Look it up! The link is at the top of my post. It'll bring back memories. You have a lot of posts in that thread.

And I was... rather good, but I don't want to come off as a condescending egotist!!

[MassJester]

Originally Posted by DVC-Landbaron

OK! Back to real time. What’d ya think?

It's a good story.

[akadada]

LBaron,

Hmmm. . .I'm emotionally torn. I wasn't going to stop respecting your thinking, but I was just not going to talk with you. Your reply was both a tad cool and certainly unexpected. I would have probably just said about my reply. "F-this guy" and move on if I were you. . . although I get 5 hours of sleep each night and have realized I have little patience and have to attend to a life outside of this world.

But. . . I really like this topic; and I think you're probably the class president on this and I want to learn more about it. And deep down, I know it's good to not let my pride get ahead of community and growth. And, don't tell anyone this, but I kind of want to be friends with you even though I don't want anyone to know it so instead it is simply easier to start off by duke-ing it out and then maybe become friends.

So, anyway, are you up for hugging it out _____...? (Reference Ari Gold, Entourage youtube it for a laugh even if you have no idea what the series is about)

Okay, assuming we "DON'T ______ EVER MENTION THIS REVIEW AGAIN." (Reference Ari again), see thoughts below because I am between kids screaming/sleeping/waking/sleeping and have more than a moment to write a chapter. (and forgive the misuse of "quoting" I'm not sure the format to replying will work. . . here we go. . .

Originally Posted by DVC-Landbaron

akadada

I am always relaxed. Thank you.

"Always"? Jury is out. We can talk more about this later.

[/QUOTE]Which points? Because in your first post I couldn’t see if you read anything! You came in with a simple statement that was pretty unrelated to anything that was on the table at the time. I believe you said something to the effect of… OH! NUTS!! I don’t want to get it wrong so I will have to go look it up!!! Be right back![/QUOTE]

No, just exhausted. I read about 40 reports a week and have to recap, write, or analyze half my day, so I simply have nothing left to write by the end of the day. I prefer bullets.
…

…

…

[/QUOTE]OK! Here it is!

Some great discussions were taking place at the time you wrote this. And most of the were bashing the heck out of Ei$ner & company! Yet you didn’t respond, even generally, to any of that. Instead you laid out that you thought they were an “Awesome team” and you were “Forever grateful”. I was very confused to say the least. To me, and I was really hoping I was wrong, you sounded like some “Pixie Duster” from the community board, blinders firmly in place, praising the great Saint Michael, and not even bothering to read anything that hinted that he may have been… well… ah… BAD!! [/QUOTE]


Overall Opinion: I don't think Ei$ner is $atan like you might. I don't like him individually, and post Wells Helicopter, I found him useless and destructive. My favorite Eisner is the one on Family Guy.

I respect the "team of" Eisner, Wells etc because my reality (truth and reality aren't the same as you know, that's why I respect your commitment to truth) was that Eisner assembled (or was the face of) a great team and Wells to me seemed to run the place (The Tangible), while Eisner was a good face for capital markets management which seemed needed (Intangible) at the time whether we liked him or not. Please tell me #1 how I'm wrong and #2 what the solution should have been at that time, not what we know today.

I reviewed your thoughts on how Disney would not have allowed the Eisner evolution (which I want to also believe), but respectfully, that's AdHoc. He's dead unfortunately and so we have no idea where he would have gone. We "believe", but we don't know.

Would he have been the same running a public company; what pressures would have been put on him? And, he eventually would have died, what succession plan would have been in place?

The worst thing could have been simply Disney going public, Eisner, Wells, Disney RIP or not. I occasionally imaging a world where capital could be raised, primarily by DisBoarders , to buy out Disney, take it public, spin off ABC. . . oh, for another time.

We have to play the hand dealt to us, not the one we want. So. . .

The history we know is the one of Team Eisner "reality" a better place than pre-Eisner for someone my age. Perhaps not your age and reality. Eisner was the face, but I infer it was because Wells was the better man at the job.

Post Wells, I felt within a few years the spiraling, (symbolic). The parks lost their "magic" whatever reality we each want to call it. Eisner scrambled it seemed, typical Venture Capital flipper mentality.

The insult on Disney legacy drove me nuts. I used to think Disney (corporate) mission was to try to create a perfect place in an imperfect world. I felt and lived that when I visited. Reality, maybe not truth.

Post Wells, I now am always assuming something sinister behind every Disney (corporate) move. I no longer even care if we stay on site. We maybe go every other year, and I don't get very excited. I'm angry about that.

There are four people (all dead) that I either worship or come pretty close to it. . .in order: Jesus, the risen (worship); Jesus the human (worship); St Francis; distance but important fourth: Walt Disney.

Disney Magic to me came from the heart of the man: Perfection, no small detail left behind, commitment to a passion that meant a better place for others; service-orientation over goal orientation. He played his game like no other and inspired me and millions of others to do the same and his legacy is/was a series of parks and resorts where we could once walk around and feel his presence, although today, I feel each year he's slipping away. No one can replace him, but I expect the best of all who take his place.


[/QUOTE]To further my confusion you used a quote that was wrong!! And you said you agreed with it!! It claimed that Wells was the creative guy. Anyone who knows anything about the recent Disney past knows that Wells was really the ‘sharp pencil guy’. But his saving grace was that he understood Disney’s business model. One of QUALITY!! So he took a hands-off approach and let, for the most part, the Disney worker bees do their magic! VERY SMART!! And something Ei$ner could never quite grasp![/QUOTE]

See above. Tangible/Intangible

[/QUOTE]One more bit for my confusion. You also said:

And I still don’t quite understand what that means, especially since you say you agreed that Wells was the creative one![/QUOTE]

Define Creative. See above.

[/QUOTE]Now. I could have just ignored your post. But I was really curious as to the motivations behind it. It seemed as though there were three possibilities.

First: You were some troll, casting your line in the water hoping either Mr. Head or I would bite. [/QUOTE]

That's funny. . .I didn't know what troll was until now. I think that was to goal of my last reply.

[/QUOTE]Second: You were some Pixie Dusted poster that just had to defend Ei$ner & crew and really didn’t know how.[/QUOTE]

No. See above.

[/QUOTE]Third: You really did read everything and still thought like did, (i.e. They were awesome, Forever grateful). If that were the case, I really wanted to talk to you!![/QUOTE]

I am forever grateful. I read what all was posted. I don't disagree, but most of what was written was Monday Morning Quarterbacking. The reality is I had a darn good time in the early to mid 90's in Disney and at that time, I wasn't smart enough to perceive another way that could be better. Post Wells, not grateful. Pissed. Since then, still pissed.

But teach me because I don't know: what other plan did Disney Corp have in lieu of Eisner at that time?

[/QUOTE]So I laid it out the way I did. Surely to catch a troll if #1 was true. Being ignored, or called an “ANTI-DISNEY” name if #2 were true. And finally, hoping that I wouldn’t offend you and maybe get you talking if #3 were true.

Sadly I failed!! I do apologize. I NEVER want to stop the conversation! Please, join in. Now that I know where you’re coming from, I will never be dismissive.

But I still have to answer some other scathing words that were written…

You see. That is simply WRONG!! I NEVER get upset about anything that is written here. I get a frustrated at times, but never, NEVER upset. In your case I was just plain old CURIOUS![/QUOTE]

okay. I see that now.

[/QUOTE]That’s true. That’s why I posted the way I did.

I don’t mean to be rude, and I am clearly NOT upset, but the knife cuts both ways.

Thanks. Then why not engage in some sort of conversation instead of an assertion of a fairly unpopular (at least in this thread) view. I mean, you could have “opened the conversation” just a tad bit better, don’t you think? If you don't have time to write a War and Peace epic, bullet points are just fine. Phrases. Anything more than a simple declarative statement, that runs pretty contrary to the arguments presented in this thread. What do think? Want to start over?[/QUOTE]

Touche.

[/QUOTE]You know nothing about me. (Hmmmm. Where did I hear those words before?)[/QUOTE]

Touche.

[/QUOTE]OUCH!! WOW!! OUCH AGAIN!! (smiley face so you know I'm not upset!!)

I really do apologize. I didn’t mean to “set you straight”. I meant to get you talking! I failed.

Me too!! (As I said, you know nothing about me!!)

Hope to talk to you soon!![/QUOTE]

Me too. I hope the edits above come out clear (as well as my thoughts). We'll see where this goes.

[mrsR123]

Originally Posted by hopemax

Alright, here's my thing with the 35 foot Buzz Lightyear?

What's its purpose? Take the newest value Art of Animation. Now I have some issues with that resort, but I do like the Cars area. Guido & Luigi are my favorite. And I like the traffic cone cabanas and I like the cars. It's built to a scale to put you in the middle of their world.

I could maybe get behind some sort of attempt to replicate Andy's House and Room. Put you in the middle of the Toy Story world where you are one of the other toys. But you don't accomplish that with a giant Buzz Lightyear. Unless you are building something to scale for one of Buster's fleas. Based on the scale of most of the pieces, I think we're supposed to be feeling more Honey, I Shrunk the Kids than Toy Story. But maybe we are supposed to be the flea.

Rusty? Looks pretty sharp to me. Spot on, ma'am.

[disneyworld1977]

Originally Posted by bcrook

I didn't see that coming! Nice! I am enjoying the posts! Sadly, I have very little to offer, I am too embroiled in the horrors of MyMagic+, but that is a different thread (a long and wild one at that).

But, I do have this story about my short tour of Pop Century last summer. My daughter and I wandered around the Art of Animation resort and didn't find it much to our liking. It still felt to much like a motel, and even though the pool was cool to look at, the shadeless sea of concrete drained me of any joy I might have found. We walked across the lovely bridge to Pop. I circled the buildings a little confused. What we didn't like were the "stockades" at the front to wait for the buses. Once again, endless concrete, winding keys, and those chains to keep everyone in place.

It was such a shock from walking out of the Polynesian lush gardens onto the monorail! Or, sitting casually in the wooden huts at Kidani. We were sad by the visit, and vowed to never return.

I can see your point on this to an extent, because you are use to the Deluxe like the Polynesian I guess. Unfortunately, I can't afford the Deluxe, but yes I would rather stay there than a Value Resort. Have stayed at a couple of Moderates and have enjoyed those very much.

I do enjoy the value resorts. Yes, it does remind one of a outside WDW hotel as far as structure, however, I try to look at it and compare. Am I going to find Disney theme, usually with the pools, the larger than life objects, whatever that may be. We walked around AoA, and I enjoyed the atmosphere. I usually don't go to a Motel 6 that I am not staying at to look around at it's theme.

Now, I do agree the lines for the buses are much to be desired compared to waiting for a Monorail at the Poly. That's why it's Deluxe though.

I have been in some very average and run down hotels, so the Value Resorts at WDW I don't have a problem with since I view them to be a step above the regular ECONOMY hotels.

One day I will stay at the Contemporary, Magic Kingdom View!!!!!

[bcrook]

Originally Posted by disneyworld1977

I can see your point on this to an extent, because you are use to the Deluxe like the Polynesian I guess. Unfortunately, I can't afford the Deluxe, but yes I would rather stay there than a Value Resort. Have stayed at a couple of Moderates and have enjoyed those very much.

I do enjoy the value resorts. Yes, it does remind one of a outside WDW hotel as far as structure, however, I try to look at it and compare. Am I going to find Disney theme, usually with the pools, the larger than life objects, whatever that may be. We walked around AoA, and I enjoyed the atmosphere. I usually don't go to a Motel 6 that I am not staying at to look around at it's theme.

Now, I do agree the lines for the buses are much to be desired compared to waiting for a Monorail at the Poly. That's why it's Deluxe though.

I have been in some very average and run down hotels, so the Value Resorts at WDW I don't have a problem with since I view them to be a step above the regular ECONOMY hotels.

One day I will stay at the Contemporary, Magic Kingdom View!!!!!

I didn't tell my story to be condescending of guests who stay there. I was referring to the lack of the Disney magic. I have never stayed at the Polynesian, but I like to spend time there - It says Disney to me. I did purchase DVC, so I hang out at Kidani - I love it, but it is a huge financial commitment. Pop Century just made me sad.

[meowmarie]

Originally Posted by DVC-Landbaron

OK! Back to real time. Whatd ya think?

What do I think? I think it's clear that nothing is ever going to live up to the visions/expectations of the way you think things should be, you're never going to get that magic back, and there are plenty of other places to vacation where maybe you might feel that magic again and not have so much pent-up resentment. (or on the flip side you could take over and run the place.)