Thoughts on child support

[horseshowmom]

Originally Posted by mfd25wife

Considering my ex owes me ~ $10,000 (she's 20 now), and my current DH paid for years and his ex would still not use the money on DSS (we or grandparents still paid for clothes, etc), I definitely understand. Exes that are only out for themselves make you want to scream and kick things.

Absolutely!

As you state, it goes both ways. I know of a woman whose ex-husband contributed so little to help with their son that she actually recently lost her house and then her car after the son developed health issues a couple of years ago. She's a great mother, and every penny has gone to care for her son, but dad wasn't particularly worried about it. Her parents had helped, but they both died within about six months of each other. It's been very sad.

It seems though that the stereotype of good for nothing dads rears it's ugly head a lot more quickly than it does with moms, doesn't it?

[Tinker'n'Fun]

Originally Posted by brockash

If the law states 21, then yes the person should still pay child support until the kid is 21.

My personal opinion about the whole child support thing, is that in any average "divorced parents, one pays child support," the person paying the child support almost never pays anywhere near half of what the cost of raising that child actually is...so really I don't feel really at all for the person still required to pay their amount of "child support" in this type of situation.

Obviously there are always exceptions, but I'm speaking generally.

While I agree that child support is very important and needed, I truly think the system is broken.

In my DH's case he always paid more than what was required. Purchased what was needed at our house and sent over extra to Moms. No toy was ever to "stay at Dads". It belong to his son and if he wanted it at Moms, so be it. If my husband and his ex stayed married when he was laid off or without extra money no one would have made him give her extra. They would have worked through it like many, many other families do every day.

His ex made more than my DH. So even in their marriage she would have been the bread winner. I just think Dads get a bad wrap (is that the right spelling?) and it just keeps getting worse.

Please understand I totally understand that there are many parents out there who DO NOT take responsibility. The parents who do should not be lumped together with them in a blanket with "most non-custodial parents".

[mfd25wife]

Originally Posted by horseshowmom

Absolutely!

As you state, it goes both ways. I know of a woman whose ex-husband contributed so little to help with their son that she actually recently lost her house and then her car after the son developed health issues a couple of years ago. She's a great mother, and every penny has gone to care for her son, but dad wasn't particularly worried about it. Her parents had helped, but they both died within about six months of each other. It's been very sad.

It seems though that the stereotype of good for nothing dads rears it's ugly head a lot more quickly than it does with moms, doesn't it?

It does, but it's not fair. While my ex is not the poster child for responsible dads, DH has tried. Yes, I know I could have mine arrested, but my DD will just now really spend time with him. I end up not doing it because I still thinks she needs her dad in her life. I don't look at DH's ex any better.

His ex is the poster child for bad custodial parents. If the money was spent on him, no problem. But, when he would come with shoes literally falling apart and no winter coat, etc. and getting what she was paid, it's frustrating. She remarried a man who worked when he got the urge and brought 4 kids with him. She told us that DH's child support payments weren't going to be spent on DSS because it would make the other kids feel bad. If she didn't get enough to pay for all of them to get whatever he needed, he didn't either. So, we got his haircuts, his clothes, etc. Child support sent a letter to us and her that support ended on the week he graduated. The month the letter went out, the ex went and got a foster child so she could continue receiving money and charged DSS rent to live with her starting the week he graduated (but share his bedroom with the new foster child). We let him stay with us because he had no job. When he got one, he moved in with FIL to help take care of him until he reported to the Army. No, I don't think highly of her.

[PaulaSB12]

Originally Posted by kaligal

I would be ashamed to be married to man who asked how little he could do for his children instead of how much.

I am always sickened and saddened when I hear or read this stuff.

I have a friend who does family law. She said these guys (and the new wives) come in all the time trying to screw their children and exes out of money. It sickens her and pisses her off.

I suppose people must tell their lawyers that they want to do as little as legally possible for their children, but it might be a good idea to keep it to yourself under other circumstances. It just makes decent people think you're a jerk and a loser.

Its not just men you know. The statistics say that 68% of men who are ordered to pay child support do, yet only 57% of mother do, and fathers are expected to pay more as well.
"But men also still pay much more in child support. The Census Bureau last month also released numbers showing fathers paid an average of $3,000 to custodial moms in 1997. Women paid little over half that. Moms also get about 60 percent of what they are owed, whereas dads only get 48 percent."

[NHdisneylover]

Originally Posted by horseshowmom

If state law says 21, I guess that's the way it is, but if he's not in college, then I don't think child support should be paid on him.




I know this isn't a popular opinion, but I agree. A child of married parents doesn't have any "right" to be supported through college (or until the age of 21 as the OP mentions). Many parents help if they can, but there's no "right" to it. Interestingly enough though, many child support decrees require the non-custodial parent to pay throughout college (or, if the OP is correct about their state, whether they are or not).

While I think it's great to help if you can, I don't think anybody is owed a college education, and if you aren't in college, you aren't owed support. I went through school on part-time jobs and student loans that I repaid after I graduated. It never crossed my mind to expect my parents to pay for it.

Some posters comment that he's not able to support himself on what he makes, and I certainly understand the thought behind that. My question would have to be though, what if he's still in that type of job when he's 25? 30? How long should he be supported since he's not obtaining any training (being somewhat facetious here)?

I agree that this s how it should be.

Originally Posted by kaligal

I would be ashamed to be married to man who asked how little he could do for his children instead of how much.

I am always sickened and saddened when I hear or read this stuff.

I have a friend who does family law. She said these guys (and the new wives) come in all the time trying to screw their children and exes out of money. It sickens her and pisses her off.

I suppose people must tell their lawyers that they want to do as little as legally possible for their children, but it might be a good idea to keep it to yourself under other circumstances. It just makes decent people think you're a jerk and a loser.

But that does not seem to be the case here. This seems to be someone who might well give that money to the son to help him out if she had the option, but instead has to give it to a father whom she feels is not using it to support her grown son who has a full time job, etc. I can kind of see how that would be stressful.

[can'tgetenufofwdw]

Originally Posted by hereyago

Honestly you need to get over of how your ex acts. If you go to court and go on about how your ex whom your child lives with you are going to look like a schmuck. And your ex will have more power.

Please don't tell me I need to "get over it". Until you have walked in someone's shoes do not judge how they may feel. For what it's worth. I have NEVER spoke negatively about him in front of my son. In fact, just the opposite despite the fact that saying nice things about him taste's like poison on my tongue.
He is the one who recently lied to the judge and told him that the child didn't even have a job:when the child was/is working for this company. Judge then demanded that father come back to court and provide child's paystubs. He said it would be great if the child could come to court but it wasn't necessary. My ex is demanding to our child that he go to court with him. I can't figure out what he is thinking.

[can'tgetenufofwdw]

Originally Posted by NHdisneylover

I agree that this s how it should be.




But that does not seem to be the case here. This seems to be someone who might well give that money to the son to help him out if she had the option, but instead has to give it to a father whom she feels is not using it to support her grown son who has a full time job, etc. I can kind of see how that would be stressful.

If the judge orders that my money now goes directly to my child then. I would have no problem with that at all. However, it goes to my ex. My child has to buy all of his own clothes, personal care products health insurance (came with the job) gas, insurance. He reports to me that he basically just sleeps at the house and showers. Grandma nor dad cooks so he eats out with friends or at their houses most nights and spends most weekend nights "crashing" with friends. So where is my money being used for my child
I just want and hope for what is fair and what is best for my son

[luvsJack]

Originally Posted by can'tgetenufofwdw

If the judge orders that my money now goes directly to my child then. I would have no problem with that at all. However, it goes to my ex. My child has to buy all of his own clothes, personal care products health insurance (came with the job) gas, insurance. He reports to me that he basically just sleeps at the house and showers. Grandma nor dad cooks so he eats out with friends or at their houses most nights and spends most weekend nights "crashing" with friends. So where is my money being used for my child
I just want and hope for what is fair and what is best for my son

I don't know anything about the laws in your state, but here it can be changed so that the support goes to the child once they reach that age. Or at least it could several years ago.

When each of my sons started college, each one's half of the child support was deposited into an account for them. When the oldest started college, his half went to that account and his brother's half came to me. When the younger one started, his half then went into an account for him. Now, it was a mutual agreement between me and the ex, but we did do it through the court system so that he couldn't just not give one of them their half. His support was paid to the court and then the court direct deposited it to the correct account.

It seems like to me, if you were willing to try and prove that your ds is having to pay his own living expenses to the court and that you are willing to continue paying the support that the court would be willing to come to some kind of agreement that you could pay at least some of the support to your son. I do think that at least some of the money should go to the dad/grandma for things like light bills, groceries, etc.

[christineann]

I agree with another poster about karma. My kids went through family court mediation (initiated by them) to discontinue visitation with the ex due to abuse and endangerment issues with him and the woman he married right after my divorce was final. When my younger child graduated high school, he immediately petitioned the court to stop the child support (which was approx $500 for two children). When my kids had forced visitation, his wife used to tell them they couldn't afford a house because of all the money their poor father had to pay for child support so I could go buy new clothes for myself (we didn't have sodas in our budget, so laughable). After the child support stopped in 2007, they bought a house they couldn't afford, and the house has now gone into foreclosure and been sold at auction. She filed for a restraining order against him for CDV but then withdrew it, according to public records (which I check periodically for my own protection from him). I wonder how she and/or he are blaming this on me, too.

I hate to see anyone go through these problems, but as the saying goes, what goes around comes around.

[hereyago]

Originally Posted by can'tgetenufofwdw

Please don't tell me I need to "get over it". Until you have walked in someone's shoes do not judge how they may feel. For what it's worth. I have NEVER spoke negatively about him in front of my son. In fact, just the opposite despite the fact that saying nice things about him taste's like poison on my tongue.
He is the one who recently lied to the judge and told him that the child didn't even have a job:when the child was/is working for this company. Judge then demanded that father come back to court and provide child's paystubs. He said it would be great if the child could come to court but it wasn't necessary. My ex is demanding to our child that he go to court with him. I can't figure out what he is thinking.

Sorry but yes,you do need to get over how your ex acts because he isn't worth it. Do you think your ex is the only one who likes to manipulate? And great that you never spoke badly about him to your kid,I feel people like that can do bad by himself and kids will see it for themselves. Your son is old enough to go to court and either enable his dad or have the judge see right through it. good luck.

[eliza61]

Originally Posted by can'tgetenufofwdw

Just looking for opinions, not a debate.
If a child (18 1/2 yrs) is not attending college, has a job making $11 an hour with a 401k, health benefits and paid vacation days..... should the parent whom he or she does not live with be paying support???? State law says until 21 but he/she is virtually self supporting. What do you think would happen in court???????????????????? Anyone have any experience with this kind of thing?
Technically the child is not living with dad but with grandparent in grandparents house. Dad happens to live there too.

Yes. I am amazed at how much my children still cost me even in their early twenties.

Now in NJ you can petition the courts if you feel your money is not going for the care of your child and you can have your lawyer ask for a break down of expenses.
Also as previous posters mentioned you can petiton the courts to have the funds go directly into an account or trust set up for the minor child.

One word of warning and I haven't read the other post but it seems like if dad is not doing the right thing and he's living with grandparents when you do petition the courts you will be dragging the entire family into a huge mess.

proceed carefully.

Now if he lied to the judge and you can prove it, (by showing paystubs) that is another issue but once again do you want to force your son into the middle of this?

[Lorelei Lee]

Just to correct a prior poster -- in NY the child of parents who are still married to each other is entitled to be supported until he or she reaches age 21 unless he or she is emancipated. That's why NY's child support laws in a divorce situation require child support to be paid to age 21.

[Tinker'n'Fun]

Originally Posted by Lorelei Lee

Just to correct a prior poster -- in NY the child of parents who are still married to each other is entitled to be supported until he or she reaches age 21 unless he or she is emancipated. That's why NY's child support laws in a divorce situation require child support to be paid to age 21.

It is definitely not black and white in NYS. Just because they are your children you are not always responsible for their welfare to 21.

Until What Age Is a Parent Obligated to Support a Child?

In New York State, a child is entitled to be supported by his or her parents until the age of 21. However, if the child is under 21 years of age, and is married, or self-supporting, or in the military, the child is considered to be "emancipated" and the parents' support obligation ends.

A child may also be considered "emancipated" if he or she is between 17 and 21, leaves the parents' home and refuses to obey the parents' reasonable commands.


Who May File a Petition for Child Support?

When parents live separately and one parent has custody of the child, that parent, called the "custodial parent", may file a petition in Family Court asking the court to enter an order for the "non-custodial parent" to pay child support.

A child who is not emancipated and is living away from both parents may file a petition against his or her parents asking for an order of support to be paid to the child.

When a child is receiving public assistance benefits, or is living in a foster home and receiving foster care benefits, the Department of Social Services may file a petition against the non-custodial parent or parents asking that the court enter an order for child support to be paid to the government agency while it continues to pay benefits for the child.

The party filing the petition is called the "petitioner" and the party from whom support is sought is the "respondent". The petition must be served upon (delivered to) the respondent, together with a summons indicating the date of the court hearing.

There are no filing fees in Family Court.

http://www.courts.state.ny.us/courts..._support.shtml

[horseshowmom]

Originally Posted by Tinker'n'Fun

It is definitely not black and white in NYS. Just because they are your children you are not always responsible for their welfare to 21.

Until What Age Is a Parent Obligated to Support a Child?

In New York State, a child is entitled to be supported by his or her parents until the age of 21. However, if the child is under 21 years of age, and is married, or self-supporting, or in the military, the child is considered to be "emancipated" and the parents' support obligation ends.

A child may also be considered "emancipated" if he or she is between 17 and 21, leaves the parents' home and refuses to obey the parents' reasonable commands.


Who May File a Petition for Child Support?

When parents live separately and one parent has custody of the child, that parent, called the "custodial parent", may file a petition in Family Court asking the court to enter an order for the "non-custodial parent" to pay child support.

A child who is not emancipated and is living away from both parents may file a petition against his or her parents asking for an order of support to be paid to the child.

When a child is receiving public assistance benefits, or is living in a foster home and receiving foster care benefits, the Department of Social Services may file a petition against the non-custodial parent or parents asking that the court enter an order for child support to be paid to the government agency while it continues to pay benefits for the child.

The party filing the petition is called the "petitioner" and the party from whom support is sought is the "respondent". The petition must be served upon (delivered to) the respondent, together with a summons indicating the date of the court hearing.

There are no filing fees in Family Court.

http://www.courts.state.ny.us/courts..._support.shtml

Thanks for posting this. The bolded part is what I was going by.

[Tinker'n'Fun]

Also, forgot to add in my part of NYS, $11.00 would be self-supporting.