Making sense out of insanity (DVC purchase)

[crisi]

Originally Posted by ELMC

Very insightful and not that far from the truth.

Well off people are often those that are frugal and enjoy things like crunching numbers - that's one of the inputs to gaining net worth

[JimMIA]

Originally Posted by myxdvz

From TUG, Bonnet Creek sure is polarizing. I've read some people use the word "sucks" and "will never go there again", which surprised me coz I've read good reviews here at DIS.

I haven't seen very many negative comments about the resort.

I have seen many negative comments about their sales force (richly deserved), and I've had a couple of brief skirmishes with them. Some Tuggers go to the sales presentations just to torment the sales weasels -- it's kind of a blood sport for them.

WBC is a very nice resort with many amenities. The only negative for us is that it is pretty large (+/- 1200 units + the hotel) and some of the pools can be pretty crowded at times. Despite that, we really like WBC and would never hesitate to stay there.

It should also be said that although WBC gets a lot of mention on the DIS because of its convenience, there are a number of other VERY nice resorts not very far offsite.

[blackacex2]

OP again.

I think if more people knew about how beautiful and excellent bonnet creek is, they would think twice about paying disney prices. Not everyone, but a lot of people have no idea that it is an excellent option. It is NOTHING like staying on I-Drive and feels more "on property" than saratoga springs IMHO. I would never stay even as far away as the mariott world center or the hyatt because they are just too disconnected from "the world"

I was able to get $85.50 a night by going through booking.com. The Wyndham website offers awful deals and should be avoided. Ebay etc. is an option too.

We have been there three years in a row and we have had nothing but excellent experiences. Never once had high pressure timeshare sales, never once had anything but a spotless beautiful room. We stayed 3 nights at wilderness lodge club level to break things up and we immediately missed our bonnet creek room. I loved wilderness lodge for its restaurants, boat to MK, and gorgeous lobby. All those things can be enjoyed (in a limited way) by just visiting the resort and having dinner.

In fact, staying at a disney resort would actually mean sacrificing a lot of the nice things about bonnet creek beyond just price because the resort has a lot to offer. I'm just talking more "common sense" than "in love with Disney magic" sense because despite knowing how great Bonnet Creek is and needing to finance DVC I STILL am considering it because the idea of staying at a studio at bay lake tower or beach club appeals to my emotions more than to my logic.

[Missyrose]

Originally Posted by blackacex2

OP again.

I think if more people knew about how beautiful and excellent bonnet creek is, they would think twice about paying disney prices. Not everyone, but a lot of people have no idea that it is an excellent option. It is NOTHING like staying on I-Drive and feels more "on property" than saratoga springs IMHO. I would never stay even as far away as the mariott world center or the hyatt because they are just too disconnected from "the world"

I was able to get $85.50 a night by going through booking.com. The Wyndham website offers awful deals and should be avoided. Ebay etc. is an option too.

We have been there three years in a row and we have had nothing but excellent experiences. Never once had high pressure timeshare sales, never once had anything but a spotless beautiful room. We stayed 3 nights at wilderness lodge club level to break things up and we immediately missed our bonnet creek room. I loved wilderness lodge for its restaurants, boat to MK, and gorgeous lobby. All those things can be enjoyed (in a limited way) by just visiting the resort and having dinner.

In fact, staying at a disney resort would actually mean sacrificing a lot of the nice things about bonnet creek beyond just price because the resort has a lot to offer. I'm just talking more "common sense" than "in love with Disney magic" sense because despite knowing how great Bonnet Creek is and needing to finance DVC I STILL am considering it because the idea of staying at a studio at bay lake tower or beach club appeals to my emotions more than to my logic.

Don't discount the Mariott timeshares at the World Center. We stayed at Imperial Palms a few years ago and had shorter rides to the parks than when we stayed at AKL!

[Brian Noble]

One of our family "in-jokes" is how often we drive *past* the Bonnet Creek entrance to get between OKW and some other location. Inevitably, someone pipes up with "If you were staying here, you'd be home by now!"

From TUG, Bonnet Creek sure is polarizing. I've read some people use the word "sucks" and "will never go there again",

There is one TUGger who tends to post this on almost any Bonnet Creek thread they can find. And, they did have a not-great experience. There might be a few others here and there. But, it definitely is the exception. I'm sure we can find equivalent posts for any of the DVC resorts here on DISboards.

I wrote this already, but Bonnet really is quite a bit more similar to our DVC stays than it has been different. Our family ranked it about on par with OKW, but a notch below BWV, BCV, or VWL. The question is: how much is that notch worth, and is that where you want to spend your money?

I STILL am considering it because the idea of staying at a studio at bay lake tower or beach club appeals to my emotions more than to my logic.

Well, emotions are Disney's stock in trade.

[Dean]

Bonnet Creek is definitely a very nice resort. Ultimately it comes down to what's important and what one is willing (able) to pay for. It is my opinion that many who stay at Disney and who tout they wouldn't stay anywhere else, don't have sufficient knowledge/experience to make a truly informed decision. They've experienced Disney/DVC and maybe motel 6 or similar off property. The truth is that to many and in many ways, there are resorts that are every bit as nice and in some ways nicer, than any/all DVC resorts. For those that have the knowledge to make an informed decision, there are plenty on both sides of the fence. There are many who truly prefer staying off property. There are a number of timeshares around that are functionally as close as the DVC resorts for those driving (we do except for MK). I know some will split hairs on this issue but for many it's really not a problem.

Personally we prefer on property for purely emotional/feel reasons but when we stay off property we enjoy other aspects and never find ourselves wishing we were on property. For some they are able/comfortable avoiding a car but we would not be in our situation.

[crisi]

Originally Posted by Dean

Bonnet Creek is definitely a very nice resort. Ultimately it comes down to what's important and what one is willing (able) to pay for. It is my opinion that many who stay at Disney and who tout they wouldn't stay anywhere else, don't have sufficient knowledge/experience to make a truly informed decision. They've experienced Disney/DVC and maybe motel 6 or similar off property. The truth is that to many and in many ways, there are resorts that are every bit as nice and in some ways nicer, than any/all DVC resorts. For those that have the knowledge to make an informed decision, there are plenty on both sides of the fence. There are many who truly prefer staying off property. There are a number of timeshares around that are functionally as close as the DVC resorts for those driving (we do except for MK). I know some will split hairs on this issue but for many it's really not a problem.

Personally we prefer on property for purely emotional/feel reasons but when we stay off property we enjoy other aspects and never find ourselves wishing we were on property. For some they are able/comfortable avoiding a car but we would not be in our situation.

I used to be an onsite snob. Now I've stayed in some nice spots off site and am less of an onsite snob - and other spots around Orlando have figured out that themeing sells. And I'm actually now a little too much of a hotel snob to be delighted by Disney hotels or DVC (duvets will help, its the change I'm most excited about in the decade we've owned). But we don't like renting a car, and we have teenagers - so our Disney trips involve the family splitting off. That's one really nice thing for a few years about DVC or any other onsite stay.

[Sammie]

We have visited Bonnet Creek and the entire complex is nice but it is not what we want when we go to Disney World.

If we were coming to Orlando, to go to Sea World, Universal and WDW, maybe yes.

If going to Disney World, we want to stay with Disney. Are their resorts the best we have ever experienced, absolutely not but location means everything to us and the benefits of room charging, different means of transportation, walking to parks, EMH is worth the cost.

We hardly ever use our car when at WDW, we truly do enjoy the on resort transportation options.

[dvc at last !]

subbing - to read later

[blackacex2]

Sounds like it's pretty split down the middle between people who will stay nowhere but on-site and those that think bonnet creek or similar is a viable option for a great disney world vacation.

I'm still torn between the two options. A 1 bedroom at BWV for 6 nights is currently $2,911 with a spring discount. We are going to be paying about $580 for bonnet creek which offers larger rooms and similar amenities and is a 2.5 minute drive from the boardwalk.

I guess I'm just not rich enough to afford deluxe disney, because man, you've GOT to be loaded to be spending an extra $2,300 (in most cases MORE) to stay at a disney branded hotel. I fear my dream of staying at the contemporary will never happen if prices stay this high. ($450/night or more).

[ELMC]

Originally Posted by blackacex2

Sounds like it's pretty split down the middle between people who will stay nowhere but on-site and those that think bonnet creek or similar is a viable option for a great disney world vacation.

I'm still torn between the two options. A 1 bedroom at BWV for 6 nights is currently $2,911 with a spring discount. We are going to be paying about $580 for bonnet creek which offers larger rooms and similar amenities and is a 2.5 minute drive from the boardwalk.

I guess I'm just not rich enough to afford deluxe disney, because man, you've GOT to be loaded to be spending an extra $2,300 (in most cases MORE) to stay at a disney branded hotel. I fear my dream of staying at the contemporary will never happen if prices stay this high. ($450/night or more).

It's not an "either/or" proposition. You're young. If you like Disney that much you will be going for many decades. Many of us on here are older and have gone through the "I'm not yet financially stable so if I want to go to Disney I'm going to have to stay offsite" phase. Don't completely rule out DVC, but maybe table it for a few years and see what happens.

[Tunseeker1]

I have been going to DIsney most of my life and I have owned DVC since I was too young according to most folks here.

I have a friend that has gone to disney 2 times in the last 3 years and are planning another trip right now, staying at disney resorts for the perks(dining plan,transportation,EMH). I talked to him before he went about DVC and he could have bought direct 50 points for about what he spent on the first trip and had the second trip on points he owned.

He is looking at it now after 2 trips and regretting not buying something with his money.

If you are already planning on going to disney you could buy direct for 50 points at saratoga and finance it for a year with 50% down at I think 8%. That would be about 200 a month with 2700 down.

After you get your first points (50 will get you 4-5 days in low season studio) then add on resale or direct.

It isnt the smartest plan, and many will call it foolish but it might make your numbers more tolerable.

50 points currently, with 50 coming this year say sept/oct and borrow next years point means 150 points for a trip this year in sept/oct

[ELMC]

Originally Posted by Tunseeker1

I have been going to DIsney most of my life and I have owned DVC since I was too young according to most folks here.

I have a friend that has gone to disney 2 times in the last 3 years and are planning another trip right now, staying at disney resorts for the perks(dining plan,transportation,EMH). I talked to him before he went about DVC and he could have bought direct 50 points for about what he spent on the first trip and had the second trip on points he owned.

He is looking at it now after 2 trips and regretting not buying something with his money.

This reminds me of a comment that Missyrose made on the "break even" thread...it is one of those examples where people take what they spent on an entire trip (including food, tickets, etc.) and compare it to the buy in cost of DVC. I highly doubt, however, that someone could take two trips using only a 50 point contract, so it's not an accurate comparison.

Originally Posted by Tunseeker1

If you are already planning on going to disney you could buy direct for 50 points at saratoga and finance it for a year with 50% down at I think 8%. That would be about 200 a month with 2700 down.

After you get your first points (50 will get you 4-5 days in low season studio) then add on resale or direct.

It isnt the smartest plan, and many will call it foolish but it might make your numbers more tolerable.

50 points currently, with 50 coming this year say sept/oct and borrow next years point means 150 points for a trip this year in sept/oct

With all due respect, you can count me as someone who would call this plan foolish. Between paying nearly double per point compared to what can be had on the resale market and the finance charges, this is one of the least cost effective plans for purchasing DVC. I understand that we all want to own that perfect contract, but this plan advocates overpaying AND financing. A much more fiscally responsible plan would be to delay gratification for a few years, stay offsite, and save up the money to buy a more appropriate contract at a more appropriate price, in cash.

A few months ago Tunseeker1 brought up a good point about a lack of true savings between buying 50 point contracts resale. Between the premium in price per point and the closing costs amortized over fewer points, the savings are often not worth it. Where we differ, however, is that he suggests that 50 point direct contracts are the alternative whereas I suggest that 50 point contracts should be avoided altogether. Frequently one can purchase a 100 point contract (100% more points) for 25-50% more money. Yes, I know there are more maintenance fees, but that's a conversation that should be separated from cost per point as there are ways to mitigate that.

I'm not doubting your sincerity or even that this plan worked for you. To me though, it sounds a little more like "gotta have it now" and less like a sensible plan. But then again, I would venture a guess that most timeshare purchases are "gotta have it now". But that's what we're trying to combat against here on the DIS.

[Tunseeker1]

Originally Posted by ELMC

This reminds me of a comment that Missyrose made on the "break even" thread...it is one of those examples where people take what they spent on an entire trip (including food, tickets, etc.) and compare it to the buy in cost of DVC. I highly doubt, however, that someone could take two trips using only a 50 point contract, so it's not an accurate comparison.



With all due respect, you can count me as someone who would call this plan foolish. Between paying nearly double per point compared to what can be had on the resale market and the finance charges, this is one of the least cost effective plans for purchasing DVC. I understand that we all want to own that perfect contract, but this plan advocates overpaying AND financing. A much more fiscally responsible plan would be to delay gratification for a few years, stay offsite, and save up the money to buy a more appropriate contract at a more appropriate price, in cash.

A few months ago Tunseeker1 brought up a good point about a lack of true savings between buying 50 point contracts resale. Between the premium in price per point and the closing costs amortized over fewer points, the savings are often not worth it. Where we differ, however, is that he suggests that 50 point direct contracts are the alternative whereas I suggest that 50 point contracts should be avoided altogether. Frequently one can purchase a 100 point contract (100% more points) for 25-50% more money. Yes, I know there are more maintenance fees, but that's a conversation that should be separated from cost per point as there are ways to mitigate that.

I'm not doubting your sincerity or even that this plan worked for you. To me though, it sounds a little more like "gotta have it now" and less like a sensible plan. But then again, I would venture a guess that most timeshare purchases are "gotta have it now". But that's what we're trying to combat against here on the DIS.

I know that it seems strange for some people but my friend has 3 tween/teen kids so they need a room that can accommodate 5 people They stayed at a I thought OKW in a 1 bedroom and spent right around $3000 for the first stay just in rooms. not tickets and food. They paid for QS dining and cooked in the room a few meals and they got a ticket in cash because they did i think a day or two at universal.

Their vacation habits would mean that 100-150 points would be more then they need a year. You could get a smaller contract and save on dues.

There are a lot of reasons people buy the way that they do and you can always tear apart their decision by placing your values and priorities on it but that does not make them wrong.

I remember when I was looking at resale contracts for him and I told people I bought at Vero. I was told that Vero is the stupidest financially to buy. I bought there because we like to go to the beach and I want 11 month booking. My wife has a co-worker that owns at saratoga that wants to trade points so they can go to vero because she is locked out of the room choices they want during the busy season.

[chalee94]

Originally Posted by ELMC

A much more fiscally responsible plan would be to delay gratification for a few years, stay offsite, and save up the money to buy a more appropriate contract at a more appropriate price, in cash.

you can even still rent a DVC stay...

but i completely agree about paying direct prices just so you can add interest to your total cost...