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Old 02-20-2013, 10:14 PM   #3301
MaryAnnDVC
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I think the ME said he was shot first. Or maybe a detective said that? Anyway, I remember someone saying that he was shot, stabbed, then finally throat was cut. He had stab wounds on his palms. Poor guy. She must have been in a rage.
I think a detective said in an interview that he was shot first, but was mistaken; ME claims he never said that. The defense already took issue with it during the trial, and I think they're going to further the issue of doubt because of it.
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You guys are alllllll so awesome working through the night on this trial!

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Mar, thanks for posting the crime scene for us!
You're welcome! I keep finding more info, which leads me to other info, which means I better stop looking or I'll be up all night!
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Old 02-20-2013, 10:17 PM   #3302
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From what I hear is the law in Arizona says you may only use self defense enough to get away. Not over kill. So can the jury come to the conclusion that she over killed and not in self defense and still send her to death.
Isn't this the whole reason to figure out when the gunshot happened? If his throat was slashed and he was stabbed..he's pretty much be dead. I just don't think there is any way this could be self defense. If I fear for my life, I'm sticking around any longer than I need to...I'd be screaming as loud as I could, dialing 911 instead of running to the closet, pounding on windows, trying to run to a neighbors...SOMETHING. No matter which way you spin it, what she did was overkill. She wasn't protecting herself in the least.
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Old 02-20-2013, 10:22 PM   #3303
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Old 02-20-2013, 10:26 PM   #3304
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Originally Posted by PebblesMK View Post
Isn't this the whole reason to figure out when the gunshot happened? If his throat was slashed and he was stabbed..he's pretty much be dead. I just don't think there is any way this could be self defense. If I fear for my life, I'm sticking around any longer than I need to...I'd be screaming as loud as I could, dialing 911 instead of running to the closet, pounding on windows, trying to run to a neighbors...SOMETHING. No matter which way you spin it, what she did was overkill. She wasn't protecting herself in the least.
There are different takes on what was done first. It may never be determined. But I would be running out the door and getting help. I believe she had everything right there and commenced to kill. As 50 seconds is to long to do all the things she did including being slammed on the floor. I would love to know an attorneys take if the jury needs to follow the guide line of the law, or if they find pity....heaven forbid that happen..would they give her life?
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Old 02-20-2013, 10:28 PM   #3305
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Originally Posted by MaryAnnDVC View Post
I think a detective said in an interview that he was shot first, but was mistaken; ME claims he never said that. The defense already took issue with it during the trial, and I think they're going to further the issue of doubt because of it.You're welcome! I keep finding more info, which leads me to other info, which means I better stop looking or I'll be up all night!
You have done enough work for the day. You do a great job! Sleep well.
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Old 02-20-2013, 10:36 PM   #3306
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There are different takes on what was done first. It may never be determined. But I would be running out the door and getting help. I believe she had everything right there and commenced to kill. As 50 seconds is to long to do all the things she did including being slammed on the floor. I would love to know an attorneys take if the jury needs to follow the guide line of the law, or if they find pity....heaven forbid that happen..would they give her life?
Where does the 50 seconds come from?
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Old 02-20-2013, 10:54 PM   #3307
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Originally Posted by PebblesMK View Post
Isn't this the whole reason to figure out when the gunshot happened? If his throat was slashed and he was stabbed..he's pretty much be dead. I just don't think there is any way this could be self defense. If I fear for my life, I'm sticking around any longer than I need to...I'd be screaming as loud as I could, dialing 911 instead of running to the closet, pounding on windows, trying to run to a neighbors...SOMETHING. No matter which way you spin it, what she did was overkill. She wasn't protecting herself in the least.
And, she could have easily run in a different direction, out the door of the bedroom. The guy was naked! How far was he going to chase her? Instead, she headed directly to the gun on the shelf? Does anyone know when she claims she first saw the gun? Because if I didn't know for damn sure THAT DAY that the gun was still there, I'd be be heading for something way more dependable, like a door to get the heck out of Dodge.
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There are different takes on what was done first. It may never be determined. But I would be running out the door and getting help. I believe she had everything right there and commenced to kill. As 50 seconds is to long to do all the things she did including being slammed on the floor. I would love to know an attorneys take if the jury needs to follow the guide line of the law, or if they find pity....heaven forbid that happen..would they give her life?
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You have done enough work for the day. You do a great job! Sleep well.
Yeah, that whole picture timeline just ain't working for me. What can the defense possibly claim accounts for the discrepancy in the time stamps on the camera vs what must've taken her longer?

The jury will be given 1st degree, 2nd, and manslaughter I think, and they can choose whatever the want. If there's even one juror who holds out for a lesser charge, they others may go along with it so as to not hang the jury.

Did anyone follow the Phil Spector trials? The first one was televised. I invested so much time in that one! And the jury was hung, 10 - 2. One of the two was an Engineer, so obviously a smart guy, and he just wouldn't budge. I think the CSI effect kicked in with him. Spector was convicted in a retrial.

OK, going to bed now.
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Old 02-20-2013, 11:06 PM   #3308
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No I did not follow the Spector trial. I can't wait for the rebuttal as well. Sleep well.
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Old 02-21-2013, 04:36 AM   #3309
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Originally Posted by PebblesMK View Post
Isn't this the whole reason to figure out when the gunshot happened? If his throat was slashed and he was stabbed..he's pretty much be dead. I just don't think there is any way this could be self defense. If I fear for my life, I'm sticking around any longer than I need to...I'd be screaming as loud as I could, dialing 911 instead of running to the closet, pounding on windows, trying to run to a neighbors...SOMETHING. No matter which way you spin it, what she did was overkill. She wasn't protecting herself in the least.

This is what all the peeps on JVM & NG were discussing last night. TA was so decomposed by the time he was found that the ME could not DEFINITIVELY say what method of attack happened first, but believes he was stabbed & throat cut first (although they never said which of those came first) because 1) the shell casing was found on top of congeiled (sp??) blood and 2) there was no hemorraging in the brain. The New Jersey ME that NG had on said that had his blood still been pumping, there would have been hemorraging in the his brain, but because no hemorrage was found, he believes that it's likely he had already bled out when he was shot. Geez, if that's not overkill I don't know what it.

I also agree about running into the closet. He's naked. Why not run out the front door. I'm fairly certain a grown man isn't going to chase you down the street naked?? And even if the gun was TA's, how did she know it was loaded? I just don't buy it.


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Where does the 50 seconds come from?
I've wondered this too. If she can't remember any of this, how do they know this all happened in a 50 second time period?


I also wonder why the defense didn't even bring up the throat slashing. Surely he doesn't believe the prosecution is going to just skip right over that too?
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Old 02-21-2013, 05:21 AM   #3310
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This is what all the peeps on JVM & NG were discussing last night. TA was so decomposed by the time he was found that the ME could not DEFINITIVELY say what method of attack happened first, but believes he was stabbed & throat cut first (although they never said which of those came first) because 1) the shell casing was found on top of congeiled (sp??) blood and 2) there was no hemorraging in the brain. The New Jersey ME that NG had on said that had his blood still been pumping, there would have been hemorraging in the his brain, but because no hemorrage was found, he believes that it's likely he had already bled out when he was shot. Geez, if that's not overkill I don't know what it.

I also agree about running into the closet. He's naked. Why not run out the front door. I'm fairly certain a grown man isn't going to chase you down the street naked?? And even if the gun was TA's, how did she know it was loaded? I just don't buy it.




I've wondered this too. If she can't remember any of this, how do they know this all happened in a 50 second time period?


I also wonder why the defense didn't even bring up the throat slashing. Surely he doesn't believe the prosecution is going to just skip right over that too?
The 50 seconds came from the time of the last picture she took to the next one.
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Old 02-21-2013, 05:57 AM   #3311
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The 50 seconds came from the time of the last picture she took to the next one.
Ah, thx.

I'm curious, were TA's sisters ever introduced to JA or did they not even know she was a friend/girl-friend/acquaintance/whatever?
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Old 02-21-2013, 06:03 AM   #3312
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The 50 seconds came from the time of the last picture she took to the next one.
Could the timeline been longer? Do they know in fact Travis was dead in the picture where JA was dragging him? I would go back and search the photos but I made that mistake last week. I saw the picture of Travis in the shower and wasn't expecting it. Which leads to me to the next question, if the jury saw all the crime scene photos, how could they not give her the death penalty?
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Old 02-21-2013, 06:26 AM   #3313
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This is what all the peeps on JVM & NG were discussing last night. TA was so decomposed by the time he was found that the ME could not DEFINITIVELY say what method of attack happened first, but believes he was stabbed & throat cut first (although they never said which of those came first) because 1) the shell casing was found on top of congeiled (sp??) blood and 2) there was no hemorraging in the brain. The New Jersey ME that NG had on said that had his blood still been pumping, there would have been hemorraging in the his brain, but because no hemorrage was found, he believes that it's likely he had already bled out when he was shot. Geez, if that's not overkill I don't know what it.
The order of the attack is more a question of the evidence at the crime scene than the evidence from the body. Where it started, where it continued, and where it ended, and what attacks on the body could have allowed Travis to move on his own for a period of time in the beginning. But I'm not sure exactly what the prosecutor is claiming and why...I just didn't pay that much attention in the beginning of the trial. We'll be hearing it all again when JM gets a hold of JA.
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Old 02-21-2013, 07:06 AM   #3314
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Ah, thx.

I'm curious, were TA's sisters ever introduced to JA or did they not even know she was a friend/girl-friend/acquaintance/whatever?
In the 48 Hour show on Jodi (Picture Perfect), the brother and dark haired sister were interviewed and had met her. I'll have to look it up, it was near the end but if I remember correctly, they had a bad feeling about her from some of the things she did or said and told Travis to steer clear of her.
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Old 02-21-2013, 08:18 AM   #3315
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Posting these links for Mare and everyone:

Det Flores Investigation Report

ME Autopsy Report

Various Court Documents
includes Indictment, State Charges, Evidence Processed, Motions

Capital Punishment in AZ

AZ Capital Case Sentence Hearing Instructions

Just in case ya can't get enough of this case.
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