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Old 12-06-2012, 01:08 PM   #181
crashbb
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Originally Posted by JennaDeeDooDah View Post
The poster I quoted said this:

The princesses I mentioned are not the daughters of the reigning monarch (Elizabeth) or the granddaughter of the male in line (Charles). Unless they mean any male in line for the thrown, Beatrice and Eugenie do not meet these standards. If the poster did mean ANY male in line for the thrown, we would have many more princesses running around as the succession rules go pretty far out there.
They are granddaughters in the male line though - through their father. It is any male. They don't actually have that many as it stops after that generation. So (had they been boys), their daugther's wouldn't be Princess, since their daugthers wouldn't be the granddaughter of a reigning Monarc (assuming there isn't a whole lot of deaths in the family).
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Old 12-06-2012, 01:10 PM   #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JennaDeeDooDah View Post
The poster I quoted said this:

The princesses I mentioned are not the daughters of the reigning monarch (Elizabeth) or the granddaughter of the male in line (Charles). Unless they mean any male in line for the thrown, Beatrice and Eugenie do not meet these standards. If the poster did mean ANY male in line for the thrown, we would have many more princesses running around as the succession rules go pretty far out there.
The official wording of the Letters of Patent of 1917 is not "male line." It is "children of the sons."

Quote:
“the children of any Sovereign of these Realms and the children of the sons of any such Sovereign and the eldest living son of the eldest son of the Prince of Wales shall have and at all times hold and enjoy the style, title or attribute of Royal Highness with their titular dignity of Prince or Princess prefixed to their respective Christian names or with their other titles of honour”.
As you can see, under this order, only the eldest son of William and Catherine would have the title of Prince. Changing this to include a daughter is currently under discussion.
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Old 12-06-2012, 01:11 PM   #183
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However, upon her marriage the Queen granted William the title of Duke of Cambridge and announced that her name would be styled as HRH Catherine, Duchess of Cambridge. She gave him a couple of other Titles at the time also and technically they could use any of these as their official names. So that is the short answer, she is called Duchess because the Queen said she's called Duchess and the Queen is the boss.
And THAT'S why I am confused. He's still referred to as PRINCE William, but yet she is the DUCHESS of Cambridge.

I guess if she's Duchess, my confusion then lies in the fact why he's not called Duke William.
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Old 12-06-2012, 01:12 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by crashbb View Post
They are granddaughters in the male line though - through their father. It is any male. They don't actually have that many as it stops after that generation. So (had they been boys), their daugther's wouldn't be Princess, since their daugthers wouldn't be the granddaughter of a reigning Monarc (assuming there isn't a whole lot of deaths in the family).
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The official wording of the Letters of Patent of 1917 is not "male line." It is "children of the sons."



As you can see, under this order, only the eldest son of William and Catherine would have the title of Prince. Changing this to include a daughter is currently under discussion.
Hmmm. Well okay then. Guess I was wrong.
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Old 12-06-2012, 01:13 PM   #185
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And THAT'S why I am confused. He's still referred to as PRINCE William, but yet she is the DUCHESS of Cambridge.

I guess if she's Duchess, my confusion then lies in the fact why he's not called Duke William.
He is called Duke. But he was Prince William (and still is) for the first 29 years of his life so he is often still called that in the media.
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Old 12-06-2012, 01:13 PM   #186
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And THAT'S why I am confused. He's still referred to as PRINCE William, but yet she is the DUCHESS of Cambridge.

I guess if she's Duchess, my confusion then lies in the fact why he's not called Duke William.
She could go by Princess William, if she (or they) wanted to. She (or they) have chosen that she go by Duchess of Cambridge. William could go by Duke William (or probably a bunch of other things) but he (or they) choose Prince William.
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Old 12-06-2012, 01:14 PM   #187
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And THAT'S why I am confused. He's still referred to as PRINCE William, but yet she is the DUCHESS of Cambridge.

I guess if she's Duchess, my confusion then lies in the fact why he's not called Duke William.
She is allowed to be given the title of Duchess. She can, and does, hold that on her own. She cannot hold the title of Princess because she was not born with that title. She needs William to become Princess.


I think.
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Old 12-06-2012, 01:16 PM   #188
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Hmmm. Well okay then. Guess I was wrong.
Went to school in the UK for a term (and then spend time at a UK university) and was bound and determined to understand this, for some reason (and the rules of cricket).

It doesn't help when the media calls people the wrong things like "Princess Diana", or when people choose not to take their title (or their parents do) like "Lady Louise".
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Old 12-06-2012, 01:16 PM   #189
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Oh dear! I just had a thought. Using these rules. Cinderella couldn't really be Princess Cinderella. Same with Belle.
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Old 12-06-2012, 01:16 PM   #190
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I don't think that you can only be born the daughter of the reigning monarch because Andrew's (younger brother of Charles) daughters are both called Princess. One is Princess Beatrice of York and the other is Princess Eugenie of York. Their grandmother is the queen which I believes makes them princesses. Don't know if their children will be awarded those titles, though. Anyone from across the pond care to weigh in?
I covered that, granddaughters in the male line. That means that the daughters of the monarchs sons are titled as princess.
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Old 12-06-2012, 01:18 PM   #191
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Originally Posted by crashbb View Post
Went to school in the UK for a term (and then spend time at a UK university) and was bound and determined to understand this, for some reason (and the rules of cricket).

It doesn't help when the media calls people the wrong things like "Princess Diana", or when people choose not to take their title (or their parents do) like "Lady Louise".
Well I do thank you for helping me to understand. I do have another question for you. When I was in high school, I visited England and one of the people we visited with was supposed to be some sort of expert on the royal family. He was talking about how things have changed since Charles married Diana and how William wasn't required to marry a virgin anymore, that she didn't have to have noble blood, and that, in fact, the only requirement as that she not be Roman Catholic. Have you heard anything like this?
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Old 12-06-2012, 01:22 PM   #192
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I covered that, granddaughters in the male line. That means that the daughters of the monarchs sons are titled as princess.
Cool deal. Others pointed out my mistake. Sometimes, I leave my brain in the last room I was in. Luckily, some other posters point this out to me and I was able to retrieve it. I should be better with reading comprehension from here on out.
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Old 12-06-2012, 01:24 PM   #193
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Well I do thank you for helping me to understand. I do have another question for you. When I was in high school, I visited England and one of the people we visited with was supposed to be some sort of expert on the royal family. He was talking about how things have changed since Charles married Diana and how William wasn't required to marry a virgin anymore, that she didn't have to have noble blood, and that, in fact, the only requirement as that she not be Roman Catholic. Have you heard anything like this?
Sadly, we didn't get into the sex life of Prince William! I would ask how they would know....

The closest we got was whether or not they considered menopause (or any infertility - age was just the one we were focused on) when considering someone a heir presumptive versus heir apparent. Apparently they don't - Queen Elizabeth was heir presumptive until the day her father died. Somewhat of a moot point now (though not totally), but an interesting discussion at the time.
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Old 12-06-2012, 01:27 PM   #194
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If and when Princess Eugenie and Princess Beatrice have children (and depending on their spouses) they will not have titles which flow through their Mothers lineage. This is similar to the children of Princess Anne. It is likely that the Queen (or Charles if he is King) would grant them some sort of of honorable title if their parents wish to go that route.

There is quite a tradition lately with the Royal parents wishing to downplay the nobility thing during their offsprings' developmental years - such as with Princess Anne and Prince Edward - and preferring that their children remain untitled.
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Old 12-06-2012, 01:41 PM   #195
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Sadly, we didn't get into the sex life of Prince William! I would ask how they would know....

The closest we got was whether or not they considered menopause (or any infertility - age was just the one we were focused on) when considering someone a heir presumptive versus heir apparent. Apparently they don't - Queen Elizabeth was heir presumptive until the day her father died. Somewhat of a moot point now (though not totally), but an interesting discussion at the time.
I believe the Act of Settlement deals with a future Monarch marrying a Roman Catholic. In short, not that he/she can't marry a Catholic but they cannot hold the throne if they do. This is also under scrutiny for change currently.

The Marriage Act has all that stuff where all the descendent Royals have to get the Monarch's consent to marry. I think that might be where all the "suitable bride" comes into play. I know there was a bunch of rumor stuff that went around when Charles and Diana got married that she had to undergo a physical exam to prove her virginity. I don't know if it is true as most people could tell you that the hymen is not proof of virginity. Anyway, if the Monarch will not give consent to the marriage then they can petition the British Parliament or something. If no permission is granted, then their children are considered illegitimate and ineligible in the line of Succession. Obviously, none of that came into play with the marriage of Prince William and Kate.
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