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Old 11-27-2012, 12:50 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by Arsenal1982 View Post
I think becoming a legend takes more than just winning a championship. There needs to be more to it than that. Example: Saban is a legend as he brought back Bama when they were dead. He's also won at multiple schools.

Brian Kelly isn't just winning, he has revived a program that many thought was completely dead and would never win again. That's why he will have legendary status.
As far as coaches are concerned you are spot on but the quote I paraphrased was said to high school players on a recruiting trip as if they are better national champions if they win one in South Bend as opposed to anywhere else. That is just not true.
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Old 11-27-2012, 12:58 PM   #77
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As far as coaches are concerned you are spot on but the quote I paraphrased was said to high school players on a recruiting trip as if they are better national champions if they win one in South Bend as opposed to anywhere else. That is just not true.
True. If I was a player, I'd want to win at a school that hasn't won in some time, rather than just be one of many winning teams (like Bama). But I love ND so I'm probably biased.
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Old 11-27-2012, 12:59 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by Arsenal1982 View Post
I think becoming a legend takes more than just winning a championship. There needs to be more to it than that. Example: Saban is a legend as he brought back Bama when they were dead. He's also won at multiple schools.

Brian Kelly isn't just winning, he has revived a program that many thought was completely dead and would never win again. That's why he will have legendary status.
Holy crap. This is what I am talking about. ND has won 10 national titles. But all of a sudden everyone thought the program was dead and Brian Kelly has resurrected it. Oh please. Obviously the program was never near death since it is the only SPECIFIC PROGRAM that has an in to the BCS. OMG you all kill me thinking ND is so much more special than every other college program out there.
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Old 11-27-2012, 01:04 PM   #79
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Holy crap. This is what I am talking about. ND has won 10 national titles. But all of a sudden everyone thought the program was dead and Brian Kelly has resurrected it. Oh please. Obviously the program was never near death since it is the only SPECIFIC PROGRAM that has an in to the BCS. OMG you all kill me thinking ND is so much more special than every other college program out there.
They haven't won a title since 1988. They've never been ranked #1 in the BCS until this season. They've never won a BCS bowl game. I would consider that "near death" status.
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Old 11-27-2012, 01:05 PM   #80
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Your argument is flawed by using game results. By your logic, a team that plays in the national title game and gets blown out was undeserving of being there (talk about monday morning quarterbacking). If a team qualifies for the BCS, you can't say they didn't belong. That is absurd and clearly shows your bias against the Irish.

Once a team qualifies for the BCS (that means they are deserving a spot), economics play a role in the decision. It doesn't mean the team picked doesn't belong, it means that the team picked, in addition to their oustanding body of work, will bring in revenue for the bowl.
The gross flaw in your analysis is that you think that BCS spots are earned. Qualification for the BCS, outside of winning a conference championship (which Notre Dame has never done), is largely subjective. How can the 11th ranked team that is not a conference winner in any scenario deserve a spot?

Since getting to the BCS bowls is largely subjective, results of the game (which are objective) are the BEST measure in determining whether a team was deserving.
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Old 11-27-2012, 01:18 PM   #81
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They haven't won a title since 1988. They've never been ranked #1 in the BCS until this season. They've never won a BCS bowl game. I would consider that "near death" status.
Oh yes. So near death with all this power.
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The BCS is managed by the commissioners of the 11 NCAA Football Bowl Subdivision conferences and the director of athletics at the University of Notre Dame. The conferences are Atlantic Coast, Big East, Big Ten, Big 12, Conference USA, Mid-American, Mountain West, Sun Belt, Pac-12, Southeastern and Western Athletic.

The conference commissioners and the Notre Dame athletics director make decisions regarding all BCS issues, in consultation with an athletics directors advisory group and subject to the approval of a presidential oversight committee whose members represent all 124 Football Bowl Subdivision programs.
The BCS has a vested interest that you guys do good at some point otherwise it is an even bigger laughingstock then it already is. Near death my ***.
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Old 11-27-2012, 01:29 PM   #82
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Oh yes. So near death with all this power.


The BCS has a vested interest that you guys do good at some point otherwise it is an even bigger laughingstock then it already is. Near death my ***.
We have an amazing fan base with a network that spans the globe. We bring the money. But that doesn't translate to on field results, as the past 24 years have shown.
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Old 11-27-2012, 01:31 PM   #83
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The gross flaw in your analysis is that you think that BCS spots are earned. Qualification for the BCS, outside of winning a conference championship (which Notre Dame has never done), is largely subjective. How can the 11th ranked team that is not a conference winner in any scenario deserve a spot?

Since getting to the BCS bowls is largely subjective, results of the game (which are objective) are the BEST measure in determining whether a team was deserving.
Very hard to argue with the teams that comprise the Top 14. As determined by the NCAA coaches and the computer rankings, which take into account strength of schedule. I will trust their "subjectivity" over yours any day.
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Old 11-27-2012, 01:33 PM   #84
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I paraphrased was said to high school players on a recruiting trip as if they are better national champions if they win one in South Bend as opposed to anywhere else. That is just not true.
If that's the biggest "lie" told to a recruit by a college coach on a recruiting visit, then the kid is lucky. I don't doubt similar stories could be told by recruits after talking to the likes of Meyer, Saben, Kiffin and the rest.

I mean, it's not like a coach from Oklahoma (47%), S. Carolina (55%), Florida State (57%), USC (57%) or KState (58%) telling a recruit they could come to school and actually graduate with a decent degree -- since roughly half the football players at those schools never earn a degree. Notre Dame graduated 97%.

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/st...all-basketball

That graduation rate by itself makes Notre Dame different than many other schools. At ND -- you are almost assured of not only playing football, but that you'll also earn a very good degree -- in case the football career doesn't work out.
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Old 11-27-2012, 01:41 PM   #85
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If that's the biggest "lie" told to a recruit by a college coach on a recruiting visit, then the kid is lucky. I don't doubt similar stories could be told by recruits after talking to the likes of Meyer, Saben, Kiffin and the rest.

I mean, it's not like a coach from Oklahoma (47%), S. Carolina (55%), Florida State (57%), USC (57%) or KState (58%) telling a recruit they could come to school and actually graduate with a decent degree -- since roughly half the football players at those schools never earn a degree. Notre Dame graduated 97%.

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/st...all-basketball

That graduation rate by itself makes Notre Dame different than many other schools. At ND -- you are almost assured of not only playing football, but that you'll also earn a very good degree -- in case the football career doesn't work out.
The high graduation rate is great but that is down to the students and their desire, not the school. If a student decides to make their school work and classes as big of a priority as their extracurriculars (which is all football is) they will be a successful student that graduates. If they blow off classes or do the minimum and then drop out they will do that too.

I worked a 48/hour per week job and took a full case load (18 credit hours one semester) and graduated with honors in 3 years. That wasn't the school's hard work, it was mine. You can juggle two time consuming activities at once if you want whether that second one is a child, a job, or an extracurricular activity like football.

As for the BCS, how well a school travels or the fan base shouldn't matter. It is an athletic competition and the selections should be based on merit. Rankings are not really a good way to decide either but since that is what we have the way it should work is the conference champions from BSC conferences get in and then the remaining highest ranking teams that didn't win those conferences. No at large team should ever be selected unless they are the highest ranking team at large team left after the champsions...full stop.

Of course that isn't what happens but that doesn't make it right either.

Last edited by FireDancer; 11-27-2012 at 03:35 PM.
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Old 11-27-2012, 02:33 PM   #86
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I am a die hard ND fan. I jokingly tell people that if you are Catholic it is written in the Baptismal Vows that you will cheer for ND football.

I think it is great that they are headed to the BCS game. I just wish my dad was here to share in the excitement. I am sure he is smiling in heaven.
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Old 11-27-2012, 03:29 PM   #87
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Really Bethel & IUSB are quite large universities? IUSB has 3300 fulltime students and Bethel (which I think is really in Mishawaka) has less than that?

ND football doesn't really impact the minor league baseball team you mention. ND football runs Sept - Nov, minor league baseball runs April - August. I also doubt they impact people heading to the beach...it gets kinda cold up there in the winter and all.

Most college towns are built around the university. Bloomington is very much the same way....except their football has sucked pretty much forever.

Maybe you're too close to it, but I can tell you the Super Bowl win by the Colts and hosting of the SB this year were a 100X a bigger story then ND's bad seasons (or even their great season this year). Nothing in my nearly 40 years of living around Indy was nearly as big a story as either of those events.

More than 80K fill the stadium for campus for each home game....they spend $$, stay overnight and help tourism. People that travel in the area during the summers come to show their kids the campus. The economic impact of ND is very big and without it, South Bend would likely just be another small Indiana town.
IUSB has 8000 plus students
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Old 11-27-2012, 04:22 PM   #88
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IUSB has 8000 plus students
I picked up the wrong # from the site I used. I should have used 4500 -- which is the # of fulltime students. The 8000 # includes nearly 4000 part timers.
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Old 11-27-2012, 04:47 PM   #89
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I can't believe I just saw this thread! GO IRISH!

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That graduation rate by itself makes Notre Dame different than many other schools. At ND -- you are almost assured of not only playing football, but that you'll also earn a very good degree -- in case the football career doesn't work out.
Ding Ding Ding! And THIS is what makes ND a great University and a great football program. (No, not the only great one, I'll readily concede, but there are faaaaaar too few schools who take the student part of student-athlete seriously for their football players.) For the first time, a school is ranked #1 in the BCS and #1 in NCAA football graduation rate (They are also #1 for NCAA graduation rate for male athletes, female athletes, and African American athletes). That's pretty darn impressive. And makes us Domers extraordinarily proud of our school.

The knock on ND for the last two decades has been that you can't limit your recruiting pool to 'smart kids' and also be successful on the football field. ND has refused to buy into that load of BS and has continued to strive for excellent in all areas. This year is a shining example that you can, indeed, recruit smart kids, make them take real classes, expect them to succeed, and also win some games.

GO IRISH!
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Old 11-27-2012, 04:53 PM   #90
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Nice post. We are proud. We are ND! GO IRISH.
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