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Old 09-24-2011, 11:36 AM   #16
DisneyDadC
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Quote:
How are we defining "bullying?" Do we think it's intentional?
Intentional or not it should not be happening
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Can the Troop change the environment to eliminate this behavior?
Not sure environment change is answer,I am thinking better supervision would help more.
Quote:
Don't interpret this next question to mean that I don't care ... but, is the behavior outside of what's normal for boys? These guys may be Scouts, but they are not angels.
I am sure most people know what is normal boy behavior and would not say there is bullying if it was normal behavior.

From reading rest of your post sounds to me like they dont really think there is an issue and they just want you to hush up about it.
I must have missed any posts you made about this so I am not exactly sure about the whole story behind this email.Is it your kid that is being bullied?? or is it something you see in general?? Cause I think this might effect the way I go about things. Cause one thing you have to think about is how will your actions effect the kids being bullied? will it make it better? or worse?
Also what authority do you have in troop will anything you say be followed by the troop?I know in my pack I might only be a den leader but if I see something I dont like, even in other dens I can and will step in to correct it. I dont know if anything I just said here helps you or your situation, but I am sure there is something that can be done to solve your issue.
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Old 09-24-2011, 12:23 PM   #17
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Intentional or not it should not be happening


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Originally Posted by DisneyDadC View Post
Not sure environment change is answer,I am thinking better supervision would help more.
Exactly! Never once have I seen any coaching from his Assistant Scoutmasters!

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Originally Posted by DisneyDadC View Post
I am sure most people know what is normal boy behavior and would not say there is bullying if it was normal behavior.
You would think. I think this is his way of saying that I don't know what I'm talking about...

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From reading rest of your post sounds to me like they dont really think there is an issue and they just want you to hush up about it.
Exactly. That's my read, too.

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Originally Posted by DisneyDadC View Post
I must have missed any posts you made about this so I am not exactly sure about the whole story behind this email. Is it your kid that is being bullied?? or is it something you see in general?? Cause I think this might effect the way I go about things. Cause one thing you have to think about is how will your actions effect the kids being bullied? will it make it better? or worse?
Fortunately, it is not my son being bullied. He has been by scouts in this troop, but not anymore. I always stay in the room with him, so there are easier targets than my son. This makes it easier for me, since I'm more of an objective observer.

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Also what authority do you have in troop will anything you say be followed by the troop?I know in my pack I might only be a den leader but if I see something I dont like, even in other dens I can and will step in to correct it. I dont know if anything I just said here helps you or your situation, but I am sure there is something that can be done to solve your issue.
Again, you've hit it on the head. I'm not technically a leader in the Troop, so I have no authority. I've stepped in and told boys to cut it out before and have had them lie to my face that they weren't teasing a kid. Scoutmaster and Assistant Scoutmaster do NOTHING! Makes me furious!

Thanks for your insight, Carl! I really appreciate it!
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Old 09-26-2011, 07:47 AM   #18
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My Scoutmasters Response. Thoughts? This is as close to "shut the f*ck up" as we get in Connecticut. Don't think it is going to have the effect that he desired...

Hi Chris --

You are asking that our boys behave at a higher standard because they are scouts. Uhh, Yeah, that is how scouts should be looked upon.OK, I agree with that objective. But, are current behaviors outside what is normal for 11-17 year old boys? Again maybe but they are scouts. You are expert in these areas, but my experience is that boys this age are not nice to each other. Then he is aware that things are happening and is saying that is just normal. Idiot. As we press the Scout Law, we are swimming against the current.And?? Isn't that the underlying foundation of Boy Scouts?

That doesn't mean that I am giving up. Yes it does. He said he was giving up by saying they are swimming against the current, basically saying just go with the flow. The trending flow hasn't looked very good to me and looks like too many in the past have pisssed in the stream. (sorry just my opinion) Just the opposite ... we press the Scout Law so that as boys mature it will be part of their make-up. And, maybe we help some boys mature earlier.



[District Trainer] ... have you met him? I doubt that he is the answer.well being you have and depending on your thoughts this could be of some leverage to you.


Let me know if you have other suggestions, observations, concerns. Yeah step up or step out.

Some people are just too hesitant to fight against the current that they don't see that the stream leads to the river, and the river to the lake. I just don't get it. And the fact that they apparently had a worse rep, when was this and who straightened it out? Sorry, Some people just rub me the wrong way and this guy would be one of them. I would just keep watching and suggesting to him. One of two things will happen. Either he will start to act just to get you off of his coat tails or maybe he will out you in a position that you have some say and can control what he can't. Of course there is the possibility that he may single your son out in which case your leverage would come in to use against him. Again just my opinion. Either way good luck with it.
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Old 09-26-2011, 07:55 AM   #19
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here is a post to your previous questions. I don't know if you saw it or not.

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Ok, so we just moved to a new city and state. My son and I were involved in Cub Scouts last year (Tiger/Bobcat) and I was Asst. Den Leader. Almost all Dad led...camping, woodworking, carpentry etc.
At his new school/pack/den..it seems to be all mom led??? I went to the first den mtg...we wore our uniforms as we were used to. It was about 6 moms and a couple of high schools girls leading the den mtg of about 12 boys. We were the only ones in scout apparel. There did not seem to be much personal interaction with the boys, just rotating them through stations to "accomplish" activities. I tried to hang back (to see how they did things/ don't want to step on any toes).
I was very disappointed....not with the moms, I'm glad they were leading. Where are the dads? My son also plays football and almost every dad is there for every practice T/Th 5:30-6:30 and games on Sat. Not one other dad bothered to take his son to scouts on a sunday afternoon!?
What are y'alls thoughts?
I am more than happy to try to help the den, but not real comfortable being the only dad. I'm also not sure all the Leaders/helper s are certified/youth protection etc.(high school girls) I can do alot of the activities with my son outside of the meetings, but this so different than we were used to.

Any scouting DisDads...advice?
Thanks for the chance to vent.

I would do what you did. Sit back for a meeting or two at the most. I also would find out who your district director is and speak with him. Ask questions but don't say, "well we did it this way." So ask questions and make suggestions. See how the pack meetings are. If they are just the same then I would defiantly talk to the district director. They should, but may not be aware of the situation. My oldest boy joined as a tiger last year. I became his den leader. Now this year my youngest son is in it. I am his den leader. My wife is our older sons leader. I have also now become the Cubmaster. There was lots of unorganization and we haven't been a quality pack for the last several years. I hope to change that. I talked with our district director and he knew a little bit about how things were going but not all of it. We were actually losing scouts to the unorganization. Also you may want to talk to your charter organization and see what they have to say.
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Old 09-26-2011, 08:06 AM   #20
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Ok, Quick Bio....
I was in scouts when I was younger. My oldest son started in tigers last year. I was his leader. He moved forward to 2nd grade after the first quarter. I talked with the council about him continuing with his Tiger and then also working on his wolf. They said if we wanted to do that, it would be ok. So we did. This year I handed off my now wolves to one of the parents in that group. My oldest is in bears. My youngest is now in tigers. I am the Tiger leader again this year.

We have been loosing scouts and from what i have counted we have lost another 3 or 4 this year because of (from what they have told me) our cubmaster. So they wanted a new cubmaster and since I did a good job of running things while he recovered from his car accident they suggested I do that. Long story short I am now also the cubmaster. I don't know if it is just coincidence or if it is me taking over, but, Last year we had 7 new tigers. This year I am looking at having 14 and I keep getting phone calls. Mind you we are a booming town of 1300 people. We have added 2 to the wolves, 1 to the bears, 1 to the webelo I, and 2 to the webelo II. And that has been in the last week. I just took over as cubmaster two weeks ago. I have heard now that the old cubmaster isn't the cubmaster that a couple of the 4 that dropped may come back now. We will see.

There is a lot more to the story but we will leave it at that. So any hints, tips, or things that you may have done are all accepted as i will need all the help i can get. I am sure i will have plenty of questions as I already do, but i will ask later.
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Old 09-26-2011, 08:42 AM   #21
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My quick Scouts bio--

As a kid did Webelos through Venture. Stopped doing ranks at Star, frankly I just wanted to backpack and not worry about Merit Badges. Did High Adventure at Lenhoksin Trails.

As a dad I have been an Asst Leader for my son as a Tiger and now again as a Webelos. OurPack is not the best in the world, just trying to get him through Webs and into Boy Scouts.
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Old 09-26-2011, 08:50 AM   #22
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We have been loosing scouts and from what i have counted we have lost another 3 or 4 this year because of (from what they have told me) our cubmaster. So they wanted a new cubmaster and since I did a good job of running things while he recovered from his car accident they suggested I do that. Long story short I am now also the cubmaster. I don't know if it is just coincidence or if it is me taking over, but, Last year we had 7 new tigers. This year I am looking at having 14 and I keep getting phone calls. Mind you we are a booming town of 1300 people. We have added 2 to the wolves, 1 to the bears, 1 to the webelo I, and 2 to the webelo II. And that has been in the last week. I just took over as cubmaster two weeks ago. I have heard now that the old cubmaster isn't the cubmaster that a couple of the 4 that dropped may come back now. We will see.
You're doing an amazing job!

I was on tap to be Cubmaster of our old Pack, but got the boot from a few senior parents. At the time we lived in a heavy liberal area, which is fine we loved the people and the community, just kept quiet about politics. When word got out that I worked in the Bush Administration (which at the time I kept very quiet) the Pack leadership kindly told me they did not need me to take over, they did not agree with my politics (by the way many of the Bush policies that they did not like during their soapbox rant I actually agreed with them on!)

Really annoyed me. Politics has no place in Scouting or frankly any organization focused on helping our kids just become better, more well rounded people-- and this coming from a guy who actually does politics for a living!
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Old 09-26-2011, 09:37 AM   #23
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Hey Chris, thanks for starting this thread. I wasn't aware of it until I saw a link to it on the primary DDC thread, but then, I haven't been on the boards much in the past few weeks anyway.

As many know from the prior DDC threads, I am very involved in Scouting.

Both of my sons are Scouts. My eldest is a LIFE Scout, and has now completed all of his required 21 MB's, and is working on his project planning. He'll be doing a project with our church. Once he finishes that, he'll be eligible for this Eagle Board! He first joined Scouts as a Bear.

My younger son is a STAR, and is projecting to be able to attain LIFE by December. He first joined Scouts as a Tiger.

I only got to go through Bear as a kid. My dad didn't see the value of the program, and so he wouldn't let me re-register as a Webelo. I'm very sad about that, but have been having a ball enjoying being a Scouter. I LOVE making a difference in the life of these young men.

I am an Assistant Scoutmaster. I also hold the following roles:

TROOP
Summer Camp Director (annually we take 75-90 boys and about 30 adults to Ransburg Scout Reservation near Bloomington, IN)
ScoutParent Unit Coordinator
Adult Activities Coordinator
Mug Club Coordinator

OTHER
Asst Council Commissioner
Firecrafter Ember Associate Advisor (Firecrafter is a local program, similar but different from the OA - it is an honor camping fraternity found only in Indiana, parts of Illinois, and a wee bit of Texas). I can share more about the awesome Firecrafter program later - but I will say that back in the 40's when National was trying to decide what kind of a program to have as their national honor society, Firecrafter and the O.A. were both in consideration, and the local folks discouraged National from choosing Firecrafter, as they wanted to keep it special, and not let it lose its uniqueness. One of the primary differences between the O.A. and Firecrafter - is that entry into one program depends upon an election, and the other depends completely on personal achievement.

I am an Arrowmen within the O.A., will be eligible for Brotherhood next April.
I am a Firecrafter
I am a Wood Badger - Fox patrol

I was extremely honored in August to serve as Master of Ceremonies for the Eagle Court of Honor for one of our guys. And not only that, but he gave me an "Eagle Mentor" pin. I have personally mentored 4 of our Eagles, and am mentoring 2 of our potential Eagles.

I really enjoy the Troop, and the program. We don't have bullying issues within our Troop, and it sickens me to read about those Troops that do (and those guys who dropped out of the program because it happened to them, and subsequently don't want anything to do with the program).

I have applied for the 2013 National Jamboree at the Summit, but am waiting to hear if I am selected to go with our Council's contingent as one of the Asst. Scoutmasters. The Council picked the 6 SM's for our contingent just this past Friday, and the ASM's are supposed to be picked by the end of this week. BOTH of my boys were approved to go, so that's cool. This will be their one and only opportunity to go to a Jambo, as both will have aged out before the next one comes around in 2017 (the last time in 2010 my younger son was still in Cubs and not eligible, and my older son wasn't interested... HE SURE IS NOW though!). I'm HOPING that all 3 of us will be able to go.
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Old 09-26-2011, 12:37 PM   #24
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Well I know where I will be directing some questions now.....
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Old 09-26-2011, 01:04 PM   #25
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so what kind of events do you guys do throughout the year. I ask because all we do right now is Rain gutter regatta, Pinewood derby, and a one week summer camp. I need more ideas. Let me hear 'em.
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Old 09-26-2011, 01:23 PM   #26
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so what kind of events do you guys do throughout the year. I ask because all we do right now is Rain gutter regatta, Pinewood derby, and a one week summer camp. I need more ideas. Let me hear 'em.
For our Pack, outside of the Pack and Den meetings, we try to have a least one fun inside and one fun outside activity per month. We go heavy in the fall to hook them, and then lighten up in the winter and spring. We don't expect everyone to attend everything.

For this September we had a hike last Sunday afternoon after our 1st Pack meeting on Thursday.

This coming weekend is a long weekend so we have nothing planned.

2nd weeked in October, a camp-out

3rd weekend in October, Friday night movie night in the school cafeteria (popcorn and way more candy than they should have). Then Sunday afternoon hike again.

4th weekend in October, sleepover at Air Museum

1st weekend in November, Scout day at Sturbridge Village

2nd weekend in November, fall clean-up of our sponsoring church

3th weekend in Novermber, Friday night movie night.

We'll do another movie night in December, and an indoor sleepover in January or February. We may or may not be in our District Chuck Wagon Derby, Klondike Derby or District Camporee. I hope so! Depends on volunteers...
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Old 09-26-2011, 01:56 PM   #27
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Holy sweet mother of Beverly... You guys do a lot. Kudos.
I see we have a lot to work on. What kind of activities do you guys do during the den and pack meetings?
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Old 09-26-2011, 04:56 PM   #28
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Holy sweet mother of Beverly... You guys do a lot. Kudos.
I see we have a lot to work on. What kind of activities do you guys do during the den and pack meetings?
Thanks! But it's taken us a few years to get to this level.

I'm Committee Chair right now, and my Cubmaster and I have a great working relationship. He handles all the program stuff for the Pack meetings, and I round up people to plan/help run these activities.

In the last few years, in order to make the experience more uniform, the BSA rolled out a program guide book for Den and Pack meetings. Your district should be able to provide you with a copy. Also, districts should have monthly "Roundtables" where they review potential themes, plans. It is really nice so you don't have to re-invent the wheel with each Pack/Den. Look at your district website and email or call the District Executive. They are a paid person whose job is help you.

Good luck!

Chris
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Old 09-26-2011, 09:31 PM   #29
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Well that just goes to show how far i have to come with this troop. Last year our "committee" was the cubmaster and I....(crickets). Yep and there was even one meeting last year I was the only one to show up. The cubmaster forgot about it. They have people signed up for the committee member positions, but they told them they didn't have to do anything, they just needed their name to put in the position to remain a valid pack. I just found this out about 3 weeks ago. We have not been a quality unit for at least the past 4 years, I aim to change that. They just got everyone child protection trained, (and they half beverlied that). I was looking through the roster and noticed people who were not there are now trained on that date.? Lots of things to turn around that is for sure. The biggest hurdle is getting enough money to do things to get this stuff turned around and more events planned. It should be an interesting year.
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Old 09-28-2011, 07:05 AM   #30
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so what kind of events do you guys do throughout the year. I ask because all we do right now is Rain gutter regatta, Pinewood derby, and a one week summer camp. I need more ideas. Let me hear 'em.
Your boys have lots to look forward to when they get older and into a Troop. They will be able to do so much more than in the Cubs. We have a LOT of fun. But we are also a large, very well established Troop (83+ years since it was chartered).

We are most definitely a camping Troop, with at least one camping activity every month of the year. We don't stop Scouting during the non-school months, but rather only skip meetings between Christmas / New Year's and on Memorial and Labor Day (we meet on Monday evenings). Other than that, we meet every week, and the boys put together an awesome program of events throughout the year. We are chartered through a church, vs. a school, so that could make a difference between doing Scouting all year through vs. stopping during the non-school months. But during the traditional summer or non-school months, we take our meetings outdoors, and meet at a local park instead. Then we have lots of outdoor skills instruction or games that we couldn't do inside (frisbee golf, orienteering, Troop-wide "Olympics", plant & tree identification, swim party, etc).

We do various things like on Chris' list, but we do a whole bunch more as well. In the past year, other than our District and Council camporees (spring, fall and winter), here are a few highlights that I can recall right now include:

- weekend camping / trip to Kings Island
- weekend camping / shooting skills (rifles, shotguns, etc)
- weekend camping / skiing, open & instruction for those who want it
- weekend camping / 25 mile bike ride
- weekend camping / mountain biking
- weekend camping / Indiana Dunes National Lakeshore
- weekend camping / caving in southern Indiana
- weekend camping / tobbagan fun
- weekend camping / Scout Skills Instruction for New Scouts
- weekend camping / backpacking
- weekend camping / Wright Patterson Air Museum
- weekend camping / Chicago Museum of Science & Industry


- Summer Camp

- Overnight Lock-In - video games, movies, etc


On the current year's calendar, a few upcoming events include:

- Bowling / Pizza Party / Overnight Lock-In
- weekend camping / backpacking
- weekend camping / shooting (rifles, shotguns)
- weekend camping / St. Louis Cardinals game

and other events that I can't recall right now.
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