Talk DVC with the Dis Dads

[DisneyDadC]

Originally Posted by brattosa

looking forward to our second trip "home" next December for the Christmas holidays (any hints on making sure we get a room during that season???)

just book your home resort at the 11 month window and then waitlist a differnt one if you want.You should have no problems.

[naf917]

Originally Posted by DisneyDadC

just book your home resort at the 11 month window and then waitlist a differnt one if you want.You should have no problems.

That is what we usually do. We are going in November and we booked SSR at 11 month and then at 7 we were on the waitlist for BLT. Our waitlist matched in about 2 weeks.

[DisneyDadC]

Permit for a GF DVC was pulled ?

[cj9200]

Originally Posted by DisneyDadC

Permit for a GF DVC was pulled ?

That is the rumor I heard on a couple of sites. Construction trailers may be moving in soon.

[Gary Pinkos]

Hello:
My wife and I purchased 270 points at the Disney Vacation Club (now Old Key West) in 1993. At that time we were a family of 3. We expanded to a family of 5 and just last year we added 100 points at OKW.

When we purchased in 1993, we often stayed in studio. This allowed us to go often.

After we became a larger family, we would stay in a one or two bedroom, we always drove from PA. This would allow us to go to supermarket and Wal-Mart to buy food & supplies. We often did not open or close the parks. As the kids started school, our habits changed as well and we found ourselves going every year in late August (less crowded after southern schools go back - our PA schools don't start till after Labor day).

Although we still are going in August, the last few years we now fly, use Disney's magical express and we get two studio's. This way we get a little more out of our points and the wife and I have more privacy.

Over the last almost 20 years, owning DVC has given us the flexibility that we needed as a growing family. If we had to pay cash, we would have never planned and saved to go to Disney almost every year, and we would have never gone twice in any given year.

This year we are doing a 4 night Dream Cruise in August, then staying at Bay Lake Tower for 6 more nights.

Next July, we are planning on taking two other families with our family, and borrowing points from 2013. I just love the flexibility that DVC has given us.

[AirGoofy]

Originally Posted by Gary Pinkos

Hello:
My wife and I purchased 270 points at the Disney Vacation Club (now Old Key West) in 1993. At that time we were a family of 3. We expanded to a family of 5 and just last year we added 100 points at OKW.

When we purchased in 1993, we often stayed in studio. This allowed us to go often.

After we became a larger family, we would stay in a one or two bedroom, we always drove from PA. This would allow us to go to supermarket and Wal-Mart to buy food & supplies. We often did not open or close the parks. As the kids started school, our habits changed as well and we found ourselves going every year in late August (less crowded after southern schools go back - our PA schools don't start till after Labor day).

Although we still are going in August, the last few years we now fly, use Disney's magical express and we get two studio's. This way we get a little more out of our points and the wife and I have more privacy.

Over the last almost 20 years, owning DVC has given us the flexibility that we needed as a growing family. If we had to pay cash, we would have never planned and saved to go to Disney almost every year, and we would have never gone twice in any given year.

This year we are doing a 4 night Dream Cruise in August, then staying at Bay Lake Tower for 6 more nights.

Next July, we are planning on taking two other families with our family, and borrowing points from 2013. I just love the flexibility that DVC has given us.

You don't miss the jacuzzi? Like you, we drive and do studio stays - Fall Break & Spring Break. We did a 1 br and I loved the space, laundry, and jacuzzi.

[Gary Pinkos]

Originally Posted by AirGoofy

You don't miss the jacuzzi? Like you, we drive and do studio stays - Fall Break & Spring Break. We did a 1 br and I loved the space, laundry, and jacuzzi.

Well......in a way, thats my point. Now we go from morning till night at the parks, we go to a pool mid day or shopping at different resorts.

[AirGoofy]

Originally Posted by Gary Pinkos

Well......in a way, thats my point. Now we go from morning till night at the parks, we go to a pool mid day or shopping at different resorts.

Yeah, we still go commando, not just everyday. I guess if I could afford more points, we'd do a 1 BR every trip. But, we do parks or MNSSHP 1 day and enjoy the resort or DTD the next day. There is just so much to do. And, the pools and hot tub are empty at night. The in room laundry was still really convenient.

[dvczerfs]

ok, the other week we were talking about dvc on the main disdad thread. i said i would look into my info.and post it. well, now we have a thread for disdad dvc so ill post it here. this is how my numbers come out, remember, the points dont change. if they add a point here, they have to take a point away somewere else. so the points are worth the same today as they were in 1999 when i joined than what they will be in 2041.
purchase 400pts. @ $56 per point. = $25000.
$25000.00 divided by 42 years = $600.00 per year
dues and taxs are $1962.00 per year.
grand total per year = $2562.00
dvc takes the dues out of my checking every month at $164.00 thats $42 per week.
so, for $2562.00 per year, i can spend 400 points per year for 42 years.
you can look at a dvc points chart to see what you can do with 400 points per year.
like other people have said, its not for everyone but i just wanted to post my info. so you can see how i made up my mind to buy in and why i did it.i hope i could help someone.

[trennr]

Originally Posted by dvczerfs

ok, the other week we were talking about dvc on the main disdad thread. i said i would look into my info.and post it. well, now we have a thread for disdad dvc so ill post it here. this is how my numbers come out, remember, the points dont change. if they add a point here, they have to take a point away somewere else. so the points are worth the same today as they were in 1999 when i joined than what they will be in 2041.
purchase 400pts. @ $56 per point. = $25000.
$25000.00 divided by 42 years = $600.00 per year
dues and taxs are $1962.00 per year.
grand total per year = $2562.00
dvc takes the dues out of my checking every month at $164.00 thats $42 per week.
so, for $2562.00 per year, i can spend 400 points per year for 42 years.
you can look at a dvc points chart to see what you can do with 400 points per year.
like other people have said, its not for everyone but i just wanted to post my info. so you can see how i made up my mind to buy in and why i did it.i hope i could help someone.

Good info Dave.

Though I think it is not for me...it is that low hanging fruit that I want to take a bite of.

I have 2 big issues with DVC. Which if I can resolve I would probably buy in...that is when I can financially afford it.

1] once I plop down $25k (per example) I feel I should be done...or Maintenance fees should be less...yes I understand they include taxes...and are a necessary evil of maintaining the resort...but $5/point...that seems a bit much too me...So maybe I can justify this one...a little...still think the fees are too high.

2] DVC has an expiration date...I know allot of the newer ones will not expire until after I do...and my children will be advanced in years by then also....but still...does one really "own" it if it expires...seems more like I'm leasing something for a number of years...I don't think I would ever feel the "ownership" part of it...and in leasing...I do not feel I should be liable for the taxes...which leads back to #1.

Curse you analytical non-impulsive brain.

[RodBelding]

So, as I posted on another thread, we just put down our deposit on BLT, so I'm pretty stoked...

My question for you DVC gurus is this; We'll be heading down next year for a week with a 4 year old and a 1 year old and are debating where we want to stay. We've already stayed at BLT and Boardwalk, so we wanted to try a new resort. Our top 2 picks right now are Beach Club and Animal Kingdom. I think I'm leaning towards BC because of the convenience to DHS and Epcot, I enjoy walking to both, but the theming at AK seems great for us and the kids. My fear with AK is the buses as I can be very impatient () and think I'd get tired of waiting...

So any thoughts or suggestions between the 2 (or votes for one I didn't include)? All comments, even ones mocking/taunting/berating me will be appreciated!

[AJRitz]

Originally Posted by trennr

Good info Dave.

Though I think it is not for me...it is that low hanging fruit that I want to take a bite of.

I have 2 big issues with DVC. Which if I can resolve I would probably buy in...that is when I can financially afford it.

1] once I plop down $25k (per example) I feel I should be done...or Maintenance fees should be less...yes I understand they include taxes...and are a necessary evil of maintaining the resort...but $5/point...that seems a bit much too me...So maybe I can justify this one...a little...still think the fees are too high.

2] DVC has an expiration date...I know allot of the newer ones will not expire until after I do...and my children will be advanced in years by then also....but still...does one really "own" it if it expires...seems more like I'm leasing something for a number of years...I don't think I would ever feel the "ownership" part of it...and in leasing...I do not feel I should be liable for the taxes...which leads back to #1.

Curse you analytical non-impulsive brain.

I don't own DVC, but as to these two questions, I think you're being distracted by red herrings. As to the specifics of your questions:

1) Maintenace fees - If you own your house, you still have to maintain it. Not only do plumbing and wiring and roofs and other items need periodic repairs, but with a DVC resort your maintenance fees are also helping to pay for periodic room and resort refurbishments. The fees need to be considered in the context of the overall cost. If it's too much, than the package is too expensive. But pulling the maintenance fees out for independent consideration isn't particularly logical. Would you rather have a 42-year-old space that hadn't been repaired or updated over that length or time?

2) The concept of DVC "ownership". You DO own something. You own an interest in a time-share resort. You do NOT own a building. Or even a piece of a building. The reason that ownership matters is that when you own a time-share interest, you can do things with it that you can't do if you're a renter. You can rent your points to someone else if you're not going to use them - at whatever price you choose to set (and can find a buyer to pay). You can sell your ownership interest. DVC retains a right of first refusal, but all that really does is establish a floor price for your interest - even if the market for sales is bad, Disney will help prop up the value of your interest by preventing fire sale pricing. As you mentioned, when you die, if there are still years remaining on your DVC contract, you can pass that interest on to whomever you please.

Long-term real estate leases are VERY common in other parts of the world, just less so in the United States, which is why it seems strange to you. In Israel, there is almost no private land ownership. Land is "owned" by the government, but individuals purchase 99-year leases and build structures on that land - and then pay taxes on the value of those improvements.

Whether you feel you should be liable for real estate taxes on a time share ownership interest is sort of a moot point. I don't know of any time in U.S. history, under any administration of any political stripe, that did not hold leasehold owners (which is essentially what time share owners are) responsible for taxes of some sort.

[trennr]

Thanks Aaron for your thoughtful and enlightening response.

To the question at the end of #1...I understand that the fees help maintain the resort...still doesn't detract from the fact that I think they are too high...
Also I thik pulling maintenance fees out as a separate item is logical...as you say it is part of the overall cost...but it is the part of the cost which is not easily calculated...considering that the fees increase typically at 2-3% every year...but then there were years like in 2003 where they went up 5-8% across the board.

For example say I was an original DVC owner back in 1991 with 400 pts...my fees would been 1021.50...now 20 years later I'm paying 1992.00...

95% increase...that's hard to plan for or calculate...not saying 20 years from now I might not be in a better place to compensate that...but still not sure how you could say it is not logical...as it is a major consideration...at least for me.

Please don't think I'm picking nits...I appreciate your input.

Oh...and here's the data I'm working from...

Year   OKW   BWV   VB   HHI   VWL   BCV   SSR   AKV   BLT   VGC   AKO
2011  4.98  5.46  6.78  5.68  5.34  5.28  4.51  5.01  3.89  4.07  4.31
2010  4.87  5.36  6.61  5.57  5.20  5.15  4.46  4.95  3.78  3.94
2009  4.73  5.21  6.41  5.36  5.04  5.00  4.34  4.85  3.67  3.82
2008  4.56  5.04  6.04  5.16  4.87  4.80  4.21  4.71
2007  4.40  4.85  5.63  4.98  4.73  4.63  4.12  4.62
2006  4.24  4.69  5.27  4.34  4.61  4.48  3.98
2005  3.86  4.41  4.87  3.86  4.35  4.27  3.83
2004  3.68  4.25  4.67  3.70  4.22  4.18  3.80
2003  3.49  4.11  4.37  3.69  4.05  3.97
2002  3.22  3.92  4.17  3.49  3.80  3.77
2001  3.13  3.83  3.98  3.32  3.63
2000  3.16  3.94  4.07  3.25  3.62
1999  3.16  4.02  3.99  3.18
1998  3.17  3.94        3.20
1997  3.14  3.84        3.16
1996  2.99  3.70        3.16
1995  2.84
1994  2.70
1993  2.63
1992  2.56
1991  2.51

[trennr]

Year  OKW   BWV    VB   HHI   VWL   BCV   SSR   AKV   BLT   VGC
2011  3.3%  1.8%  2.5%  1.9%  2.8%  2.4%  1.1%  1.3%  3.1%  3.3%
2010  2.9%  2.8%  3.1%  3.8%  3.2%  3.0%  2.9%  1.9%  2.9%  3.1%
2009  3.7%  3.4%  6.1%  3.8%  3.6%  4.2%  3.1%  3.3% 
2008  3.7%  3.9%  7.3%  3.7%  2.9%  3.6%  2.2%  2.0%
2007  3.8%  3.4%  6.8% 14.7%  2.6%  3.3%  3.5%
2006  9.8%  6.3%  8.2%  7.4%  6.0%  4.9%  3.9%
2005  4.9%  3.8%  4.3%  4.7%  3.1%  2.2%  0.8%
2004  5.4%  3.4%  7.1%  4.3%  4.2%  5.3%
2003  8.4%  4.8%  4.6%  6.3%  6.6%  5.3%
2002  2.9%  2.6%  5.0%  4.8%  4.7%
2001 -0.9% -3.0% -2.7%  2.2%  0.3%
2000  0.0% -2.0%  2.3%  2.2%
1999 -0.3%  2.0%       -0.6%
1998  1.0%  2.6%        1.3%
1997  5.0%  3.8%        0.0%
1996  5.3%
1995  5.2%
1994  2.7%
1993  2.7%
1992  2.0%

[AJRitz]

Originally Posted by trennr

Thanks Aaron for your thoughtful and enlightening response.

To the question at the end of #1...I understand that the fees help maintain the resort...still doesn't detract from the fact that I think they are too high...
Also I thik pulling maintenance fees out as a separate item is logical...as you say it is part of the overall cost...but it is the part of the cost which is not easily calculated...considering that the fees increase typically at 2-3% every year...but then there were years like in 2003 where they went up 5-8% across the board.

For example say I was an original DVC owner back in 1991 with 400 pts...my fees would been 1021.50...now 20 years later I'm paying 1992.00...

95% increase...that's hard to plan for or calculate...not saying 20 years from now I might not be in a better place to compensate that...but still not sure how you could say it is not logical...as it is a major consideration...at least for me.

Please don't think I'm picking nits...I appreciate your input.

Oh...and here's the data I'm working from...

Year   OKW   BWV   VB   HHI   VWL   BCV   SSR   AKV   BLT   VGC   AKO
2011  4.98  5.46  6.78  5.68  5.34  5.28  4.51  5.01  3.89  4.07  4.31
2010  4.87  5.36  6.61  5.57  5.20  5.15  4.46  4.95  3.78  3.94
2009  4.73  5.21  6.41  5.36  5.04  5.00  4.34  4.85  3.67  3.82
2008  4.56  5.04  6.04  5.16  4.87  4.80  4.21  4.71
2007  4.40  4.85  5.63  4.98  4.73  4.63  4.12  4.62
2006  4.24  4.69  5.27  4.34  4.61  4.48  3.98
2005  3.86  4.41  4.87  3.86  4.35  4.27  3.83
2004  3.68  4.25  4.67  3.70  4.22  4.18  3.80
2003  3.49  4.11  4.37  3.69  4.05  3.97
2002  3.22  3.92  4.17  3.49  3.80  3.77
2001  3.13  3.83  3.98  3.32  3.63
2000  3.16  3.94  4.07  3.25  3.62
1999  3.16  4.02  3.99  3.18
1998  3.17  3.94        3.20
1997  3.14  3.84        3.16
1996  2.99  3.70        3.16
1995  2.84
1994  2.70
1993  2.63
1992  2.56
1991  2.51

Oh, I don't disagree that the issue of maintenance costs being variable is a legitimate concern. But I guess my point is that maintenance costs for anything you own are variable, and they increase over time due to inflation and because the older the infrastructure gets, the more extensive/expensive the repair bills get. Bigger jumps are usually occassioned by natural disasters like hurricanes, or the insurance premiums that jump after a hurricane. If you had fixed maintenance costs, you would have a situation whereby the older a DVC resort was, the worse condition it would be in.

According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics CPI Inflation calculator, DVC maintenance rates have run just slightly ahead of inflation nationally (which makes some since, because inflation in Florida has been somewhat higher than the national average). Just adjusting for inflation, the $1021.50 paid for maintenance in 1991 would have to be $1686.80 just to break even (not even allowing for the aging infrastructure issue). Here's the simple calculator I used: Bureau of Labor Statistics