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Old 06-04-2009, 08:57 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by SnowWhite607 View Post
Okay did you miss the part where I said I didnt want to be rude? I think that last part was a bit snarky. No you dont have to have children to have an opinion. Its just that I know, as well as I am sure many other posters do, your perspective on things change immensely when you have kids.
That's how your post came across to me. That's why in my original post I did attempt to say that I'm sure that it causes anxiety when your kid leaves your sights. I just find it sad that parents have become so paranoid. I'm not that old and I can remember playing outside with my friends for hours with no adult supervision, going on all these trips that people are freaking out about, etc. Things that people would never allow today and nothing ever happened. I had some students who were not allowed to go on a field trip unless their parents chaperoned, and since their parents never chaperoned... I always felt very sad for them. They often felt very left out.
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Old 06-04-2009, 09:43 PM   #47
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I was at a city park which had a very large pool-like body of water. It had a large shallow area and an even larger deeper area, about 5-6ft deep. There were at least 12 lifeguards doing their job. I was there with my 4yo son and obviously I was sticking to him like glue.

There were so many kids in the water that day. A local summer camp had brought over about 500 children to picnic and swim. Nobody saw what happened but what we figured out is that one of the boys, around 8, followed his older brother out into the water, got out too far and went under. When the campers when to eat their lunches the counselors counted heads and realized they were missing one.

The lifeguards swept the pool in lines and found the boy limp, grey, and lifeless in about 5 ft of water. I have never been so profoundly affected. Those lifeguards did everything they could to revive him. Then the EMTs arrived and they worked on him. The counselor in charge was so hysterical they ended up having to take her to the hospital. The job of notifying the parents fell to police.

That was 17 years ago and the scene is still as vivid today as it was on that summer day. I often think about the boy's family and I would give anything to let them know I still remember their boy.
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Old 06-04-2009, 09:48 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eeyores Butterfly View Post
I had some students who were not allowed to go on a field trip unless their parents chaperoned, and since their parents never chaperoned... I always felt very sad for them. They often felt very left out.
How long have you been a teacher? Has this really happened that often and with that many students during your career?

When it comes to water/swimming activities, you will never know how you feel until you are a parent.
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Old 06-04-2009, 09:59 PM   #49
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How sad - they all are definately in my thoughts and prayers - UP Terri I'm also a parent and teacher, and I know where you are coming from - LP Terri - my dd lost a classmate - and I know they have a profound affect on our lives - always.

Minkydog - that was a heartwrenching story - thanks for sharing, 17 years ago... and we dont forget!

I was chaperoning kids at Boy Scout Camp - my son a Lifeguard.... one kid (I found out later when the boy came to my school, just how many needs this amazing kid had/has!) was nervous .... his dad was there - later admitting he just wanted everyone to treat his son "normal" but while we waited our turn, I felt he was having a seizure - sure enough, it was very very mild.... the dad didnt notice until I pointed it out! Needless to say when it came to the swim test the dad said he hoped his son could go out in the lake and "just see how he does" I asked that the dad swim next to him as how the son had a seizure... and had never swam in a lake before!

for us, all turned out well, definite challenges... but like pp

my heart goes out to the family, friends, students and teachers...
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Old 06-04-2009, 11:53 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hentob View Post
How long have you been a teacher? Has this really happened that often and with that many students during your career?

When it comes to water/swimming activities, you will never know how you feel until you are a parent.
I was referring to one specific brother and sister. None of the field trips involved water. They were all educational trips like a Smithsonian exhibit that came to town or going to the capital (all 4th graders do this). Nothing dangerous at all. Don't know why the parents felt this way, but the kids always felt left out when they were the only ones who were never allowed to go on a field trip.

It sounds like what happened to this little boy was a tragic accident that could have happened to anyone. People don't realize how quickly a person can drown. It only takes an inch of water and few a seconds. This is why I think that every child should have swimming lessons. Maybe the reason my family never worried about these kinds of things was because I was on a swim team? But it would never occur to me to be freaked out over a kid getting into a pool, particularly if that child had been taught how to swim and knew the dangers.
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Old 06-05-2009, 12:04 AM   #51
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See, as a parent, I may be one of the few, but at 5th grade I don't think the kids need to be going out of town or overnights or anything like that on fields trips. I don't even like it at high school age. Its just not needed.
I agree with you (and I'm not a parent). We never, ever had overnight trips anywhere that was put on by the school from elementary to high school. Apparently my school system used to. Back in the early 90's a couple chaperones caught a 10th grade guy in the shower with two 10th grade girls. That put an end to that. There's just no way chaperones/teachers/parents can be everywhere 24 hours a day during any kind of trip.

OP, how horrible! I will definitely be sending prayers to everyone involved .
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Old 06-05-2009, 07:32 AM   #52
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I wont even let my 8 year old go to a pool party! LOL! A girl asked if she could go home with her and swim in her pool. DD said "I dont think my mom will let me!"

I get accused all the time of being paranoid or too cautious or over protective but its things like this that make me realize that it takes literally seconds to lose a child. And yu cant always go around saying "oh things like that dont happen here" or "that wont happen to me" because I bet that poor boy's parents thought the same thing.

Not to be rude but I am wondering if Eeyore's Butterfly has children. If not, I can SWEAR to you that you have probably never experienced the amount of fear and anxiety that you will when you let your baby out of your sight for the first time, whether it be on a 4th grade class trip or a sr trip or whatever.

We actually had a kid from close to here who drowned when he fell off the Carnival cruise ship that he was on for his Sr trip.
I don't think she does, but I have 5, and allow them to go to pool parties, the 6th grade camping trip, and dd12 went rustic camping at Lake Michigan last year for a week with my SIL (and then flew home alone to NYC - she was gone for almost 3 weeks!). My children can all swim (even my 6 year olds know all of their strokes). We start formal swim lessons year-round at the age of 3 (because it's that important). Once they are 4, no flotation devices are allowed - you MUST swim. I protect my children by teaching them how to get along without us, not by sheltering them.
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Old 06-05-2009, 08:04 AM   #53
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I don't think she does, but I have 5, and allow them to go to pool parties, the 6th grade camping trip, and dd12 went rustic camping at Lake Michigan last year for a week with my SIL (and then flew home alone to NYC - she was gone for almost 3 weeks!). My children can all swim (even my 6 year olds know all of their strokes). We start formal swim lessons year-round at the age of 3 (because it's that important). Once they are 4, no flotation devices are allowed - you MUST swim. I protect my children by teaching them how to get along without us, not by sheltering them.
I know we had issues on another thread but lets not turn this into a bashing of how we parent our kids.
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Old 06-05-2009, 08:13 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Eeyores Butterfly View Post
That's how your post came across to me. That's why in my original post I did attempt to say that I'm sure that it causes anxiety when your kid leaves your sights. I just find it sad that parents have become so paranoid. I'm not that old and I can remember playing outside with my friends for hours with no adult supervision, going on all these trips that people are freaking out about, etc. Things that people would never allow today and nothing ever happened. I had some students who were not allowed to go on a field trip unless their parents chaperoned, and since their parents never chaperoned... I always felt very sad for them. They often felt very left out.
My guess is that students have been "left out" for various reasons for a long time. To act like this is something "new" and that parents have never been paranoid or concerned is tunnel vision.

Some kids may not be able to go overnight for a very private reason. Maybe you are just seeing the excuse that "saves face". Who knows?

Nothing new, just more parents with kids. I think it is more a numbers game than a new development. The incoming freshman for my dd's high school in the fall is the biggest in the history of the school, which is 101 yrs old.

Plus with instant media, reality shows, computer with live streaming you are just more aware of the idiosyncrasies of people. It is like a freak show sometimes.

And yes I can have a laundry list of things that I feel are wrong with today's parents. Every generation of parents had their beef they owned.

If I had to have a beef for this age, I would say it is privacy and the lack of it. I tell my girls that surf the net that, anonymity on the computer is something you should have in the back of your mind when surfing.

Is that paranoid? Perhaps, however try and argue that one.
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Old 06-05-2009, 08:20 AM   #55
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ugh, so awful. i can't even imagine how those other kids feel, especially the one who found him.
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Old 06-05-2009, 08:26 AM   #56
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OP (aka "UP Terri") here,
Thanks for everyone's comments, and for not letting this turn into a "I parent better than you do" thread Being a parent is NOT an easy job, as we all know, and accidents can and do happen. My DS14 and 2 of his friends canoe regularly down the river next to our house, always with lifejackets on, but I send out a prayer on the current with them every time they do it. It can be very scary to be a parent...

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Old 06-05-2009, 09:23 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by mjkacmom View Post
I protect my children by teaching them how to get along without us, not by sheltering them.
You are correct. Everyone should be taught how to be independent (which includes how to swim). And you are correct, that in paraphrase you can't live life worrying. However, accidents still happen and people who don't allow their kids to attend swim events are certainly justified.

Strong swimmers have drowned because of cramps, undercurrent, accidentally bumping head, other swimmers jumping on top of them and any number of other reasons. I evaluate the things my kids participate in and take necessary proactive steps when I think there is a potential risk to them. So far we have not let my DS7 attend a swim party without either me or DH being there also. He is a good swimmer for his age, but we think he still needs to be watched and we know from experience that pool parties get crazy.

It comes down to risk assessment. It is our responsiblity as parents to make sure we minimize it as much as possible. Having independent kids doesn't change the fact that our kids participate in activies where they could be hurt and it could be prevented. They are still kids.

Here's a prayer that all kids stay safe this summer!
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Old 06-05-2009, 09:37 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by Eeyores Butterfly View Post
I just find it sad that parents have become so paranoid. I'm not that old and I can remember playing outside with my friends for hours with no adult supervision, going on all these trips that people are freaking out about, etc. Things that people would never allow today and nothing ever happened. I had some students who were not allowed to go on a field trip unless their parents chaperoned, and since their parents never chaperoned... I always felt very sad for them. They often felt very left out.
I know where you are coming from, but times have changed and parents are justified in questioning activities. Parents should be "paranoid" to a certain degree. When we were younger, we didn't have the ability to talk to strangers via cell phone or internet like today's kids do. Our chaperones and lifeguards and whatever had less distractions than now (phones, MP3s, whatever). My kids attended swim lessons at the local civic center 2 summers ago where the life guard watching over the kiddie pool and the head swim director were both texting on their phones the entire time. So yes, parents have every right to be a little paranoid.

Being from K.C. I'm sure you are familiar with the case of the High Schooler walking out of a busy store in broad daylight being kidnapped and murdered. Who would have ever thought as a parent that she wouldn't have been safe. You just never know.

I hope teachers (and others) will remember that you only see one part of what is going on in the kid's life. There maybe other factors that prevent kids from attending events. The kid may be disappointed but the parent may still be doing the right thing for the kid. For example, a parent may choose to keep a kid home from an overnight trip because they are a bedwetter. They don't want the kid to be embarrassed (forever) in front of their friends. Maybe a loved one is sick and on death's door and they want the kid to be available to say goodbye. Maybe they just don't have the money. You just don't know.

Last edited by merekc; 06-05-2009 at 09:50 AM. Reason: Needed to generalize. Not meaning to attack anyone. :)
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Old 06-05-2009, 05:20 PM   #59
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http://www.thesttammanynews.com/arti...6165875027.txt

This is in my area. Coincidence, huh?
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Old 06-05-2009, 07:15 PM   #60
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My DS had to be given CPR from a near drowning experience. My husband was in the pool (with DD) along with older DS and about 15 other kids. There were about 30 adults around the pool too. No one saw anything until my husband felt something bump into him. Saw it was our son floating face down and was able to get DD out of the pool and then drag our son out and start CPR. I turned around to see DH shaking DS, realized it was not a joke and screamed for 911. Thankfully our son was revived before the paramedics got there. He only spent the night in PICU for observation and he got to go home. We were later told that one "lucky" thing was that it was so cold that day. The cold water shocked the lungs before they could fill up, so he did not aspirate as much as he would have it it had been warmer. It is less likely the outcome would have been as good if the water had been warm.

This was almost 3 years ago, and I still hate pools. Hearing stories like this makes it all come rushing back, and I continue to thank God that my son is still here.

My story is similar to yours, although my son (almost 3) did not live through it
that is true about the colder water.. unfortunately, the pool was heated and very warm.. he was under maybe 90 seconds... it can happen SO fast, and it is Silent!
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