DVC RESALES
DVC RESALES

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Old 07-30-2014, 03:14 PM   #1
JennaDeeDooDah
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Please explain this to me like I am 5 years old.

My husband and I, like most Disney addicts, have often talked about purchasing DVC membership, but can't seem to make it make financial sense. We see the adds about how it saves money and provides more flexibility, but we don't really see how. However, people buy into DVC all the time, so it has to make sense for some, right? So, please help me to understand. Right now, we are able to stay at Bay Lake Tower, Saratoga Springs, Old Key West, Boardwalk Villas, Hilton Heat, Aulani, etc. by paying out of pocket. We also are able to decide to stay at Contemporary, Boardwalk, or Port Orleans by paying out of pocket. DVC members can't use points for those hotels, right? So in that sense, it sounds like not having the membership awards you more flexibility in that you have more option on where to stay. Is it that much cheaper to stay at one of the DVC resorts if you are a member? And what about renting points? If we were to rent points would that award us the same discount that DVC members receive? Does it only make sense if you are used to staying at deluxe resorts and/or have a larger family which requires more space than a standard room? Please help me to understand how it saves members money. Do you start saving right away or is it more of an investment where you see the savings in 5-10 years? And, again, if you can explain it to me like I am a 5 year old child, I would appreciate it because I am very confused about all of this.
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Old 07-30-2014, 03:46 PM   #2
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You would need to compare what you pay for a room with cash versus the same size and type of room if you owned a DVC contract.

DVC is best for staying at DVC resorts, using it to stay elsewhere is not the same savings.

DVC is better if you need a larger room than what is offered for cash.

You will spend thousands to buy the contract and pay yearly dues which increase each year so your break even can be 10 years from now.

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Old 07-30-2014, 03:56 PM   #3
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Let me try with an example. At Bay Lake Tower, on 1/6 (mid-week, low season), a standard view studio cash price is $369 plus tax. If you were to rent points from a dvc member, it would only be $168 (at $12/point). But, based in my research, each point cost me an amortized $7 in today's dollars. So that room would cost me $98, and no tax. That's an amazing discount from the cash price, but it does require an up-front investment.

If all you did was purchase a dvc contract and rent out the points, your ROI would be in the 7-11 year range depending on resort and purchase price. If you compare against paying cash rates for your accommodations, your ROI is probably closer to 4 years.
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Old 07-30-2014, 04:03 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supersnoop View Post
Let me try with an example. At Bay Lake Tower, on 1/6 (mid-week, low season), a standard view studio cash price is $369 plus tax. If you were to rent points from a dvc member, it would only be $168 (at $12/point). But, based in my research, each point cost me an amortized $7 in today's dollars. So that room would cost me $98, and no tax. That's an amazing discount from the cash price, but it does require an up-front investment.

If all you did was purchase a dvc contract and rent out the points, your ROI would be in the 7-11 year range depending on resort and purchase price. If you compare against paying cash rates for your accommodations, your ROI is probably closer to 4 years.
Good info but not everyone will be able to book a standard view. How do the numbers look with a lake view?

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Old 07-30-2014, 06:06 PM   #5
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DVC makes getting larger accommodations like 1 and 2 bedroom villas with full kitchens, laundry rooms and multiple baths more affordable for families.

September is a low point season for DVC. 1 week (7 nights) at BLT in mid Sept a 2 bedroom lake view villa costs 296 points. To rent from David's ($15pp) runs $4144 but you could find a member to rent from and pay in the $12/$13pp range. To rent directly from Disney is $6181 rack rate. Not sure if that includes tax. Of course you could get some kind of a pin code or a seasonal discount but they aren't always guaranteed.

Initial outlay will vary with if you buy direct from Disney or resale, how many points you buy and what resort you buy at.

I can't do all the fancy math to figure out the cost of the initial outlay over the years but I know that to stay at that time for that many points cost $1420 in dues this year. Keep in mind that you will have many, many years to take these vacations, until 2057 at BLT. Dues go up slightly each year but then Disney's rates go up higher each year.

Only you can decide if buying DVC or renting points would be cheaper for your family. It looks a lot cheaper to me.

Last edited by DizBub; 07-30-2014 at 09:27 PM.
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Old 07-30-2014, 06:14 PM   #6
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I think it removes flexibility - but it provides for some other things.

If you currently stay in Deluxe hotels and stay in DVC studios (and don't mind the queen bed and pullout), you'll save some money - especially if you buy resale - on accomodations - now whether you hang onto that savings or use it to go to Disney more often or take a fireworks cruise is up to you.

If you have kids and the room is starting to feel crowded, DVC is one of the few ways to get your kids in a different room affordably.

If you are looking for a different sort of experience - say longer stays at Disney were you are doing a little wash, eating some meals in your condo - then DVC is pretty much the only way to do that on site - either owning, renting or booking through CRO. If you want to share - DVC is one way to make taking your parents or your kids and grandkids affordable.

Removing flexibility - cash availability is seldom sold out as early as it can be with DVC units. It can be difficult to get what you want when you want it with DVC - especially if you want certain resorts at certain times of year. And what you have is DVC points - while you CAN use them to book cruises or trade via RCI, their most cost effective use is at DVC resorts - paying cash for your Disney cruise is often a better deal (and cruising a different line is often an even better deal). Rooms are configured the way they are configured - there aren't studios with bunk beds. Or one bedrooms with two queens in the master instead of a king. Views are often kind of crappy and often not bookable (with some fairly significant exceptions).
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Old 07-30-2014, 06:23 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by JennaDeeDooDah View Post
We also are able to decide to stay at Contemporary, Boardwalk, or Port Orleans by paying out of pocket. DVC members can't use points for those hotels, right?
If you buy direct from disney you can stay at any disney hotel on points through the Disney Collection. It isn't as affordable, or make much sense to do that unless there aren't any other DVC rooms available at the time you want to travel. And even if you really want to stay at a non-DVC the best way to use your DVC is to rent out your points to someone else and use the proceeds to rent the cash room you want.

This point is important, even though you can do RCI exchanges or Disney Adventure etc. etc. the most cost effective way of using your DVC ownership and vacationing out side the club is to rent out your points, and then book wherever you want.
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Old 07-30-2014, 06:34 PM   #8
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We bought, in 2006, after staying offsite once and then at POR once. We are a family of 5 and could only do certain resorts (that slept 5 in a room) back when we began going to WDW (2003). And our kids were little then, but we knew once they were older that we could not all cram into 1 regular hotel room and NO WAY could we afford to get 2 regular rooms at WDW. A plus about buying DVC was that we could get a 1BR villa with a washer and dryer and we LOVE(D) having a door to the master to separate us form the kiddos. Now that the kiddos are all teens, we need to get a 2BR but we have been adding on points since we first bought in.

So, I do think it saves a lot on regular room rates but we don't get free dining. We do get to buy the TIW card and we also get discounts on regular rooms and annual passes (currently, but they can change that any time). If you buy directly from Disney you can use your points at the regular WDW hotels but it takes way more points than just staying DVC. If you buy a resale (since 2011) you cannot use your points for Disney resorts or cruises (just DVC or trade into RCI). But buying resale can be half the price...I bought AKV for just $66pp in 2013.

We, DVC, don't get daily housekeeping (which I prefer that we don't anyway).

You can rent points for about $12-14pp...I think it is now. I think I figured out that I add about $3 to annual dues for my points when determining what my cost is for the room we booked (ie: booked 5 weeknights in 2BR at HHI for Aug at 205 points...annual dues for those were $1287.40 plus $3pp at $615 for $19002.40 cost for me while CRO 5 weeknights in 2BR for summer is $2893 for a savings of almost $1000). Don't remember how I got that $3 figure though. So, look up the dates you are thinking and the room type and see what it is CRO VS renting DVC VS owning DVC.

Good luck in your decision!!
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Old 08-01-2014, 02:38 PM   #9
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Every time you go to Disney you have to pay to stay at a hotel. . If you stay at a Deluxe hotel, you may pay $300-$500 a night for a standard hotel room. So if you stay for 10 days, you are paying $3,000 to $5,000 for 10 nights stay. Even a moderate room for 10 nights will run you $1,800-$2,500 for 10 nights.

When you purchase DVC, you have to pay Disney (or in resale the original owner) a sum of money upfront to buy into the property. This is large chunk of money upfront. I'll use the example of my resale contract, because it's more reasonable than direct from Disney:

I am paying $12,000 for the right to a room for the next 42 years. Spread across 42 years, that's about $300 a year that it will cost me. I also have to pay Disney a maintenance fee for the property, which right now is about $900 a year. That means I am paying about $1,200 for 10 nights stay. (You can think of it other ways with the $12000 up front cost. You could say it will cost you $1,200 for the next 10 years, and 0 or the 32 years after that. Whatever, the point is there is a large up front cost.)

However, when you take into account inflation, by paying that $12,000 now for the lower "room rates" (i.e.my annual maintenance fees) I should be paying MUCH, MUCH less 10 years or more from now. If you figure the room rates go up by 4 %, as do my maintenance fees, 10 years from now the room rates will be in the $5000-$8000 range, and my maintenance fees will be $1600.

If you buy direct from Disney, the upfront cost is much higher (double or more) but the argument is the same.

You also have the option of spending MORE and getting 1 or 2 or 3 bedroom villas. While you can also do this direct with points.

Renting Points is still much cheaper than paying cash to Disney. However, it is also more expensive in the long run than owning DVC. (I won't run the numbers here, but again my points cost me about $8/ point whereas renting points go for $12-$15 a point.

Now, to answer the question of flexibility, does DVC give you more flexibility?
That answer in my view is clearly NO!
-It makes little sense (financially) to trade your DVC points for other forms of vacation, even internal to Disney. This limits you to the dozen or so resorts at WDW, Vero Beach, Hilton Head, Aulani, and the Grand Californian.
-In addition, to get into many of the resorts, you have to book right at the 7 month mark before your trip, and sometimes even then it is hard to get in if you want to travel at the most popular times for DVC - this is typically October - December, and any marathon weekend.
- With planning, you should be able to get into a variety of resorts. However, your own resort is the only one you can book at 11 months out, and generally should be able to get into when booking that far in advance.
- Another thing to note is that while DVC rooms are at Deluxe resorts, they aren't quite deluxe. You don't get daily housekeeping, and they aren't refurbed as often.

So, you see, the level of flexibility is not there. However, the cost savings can be huge. My calculations show that the cost to me of DVC including dues increasing 5 % a year will be $155,000 over the next 43 years. Staying in a Moderate hotel every year for the next 43 years would cost me $306,000, again assuming 5% rate increase every year. That's a $151,000. In addition, I would never be afford to stay deluxe. That would cost me $535,000 if I could afford it. Instead I pay $400,000 less.

Another way to think about it is like compound interest. The longer you "invest" in DVC, the more your savings compounds. BUT, you do have to be sure that this is how you are going to want to vacation a long time. (Else you can resell your DVC property some day, but I hesitate to tell people they should be relying on that.)

Hope that helps a little.
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Old 08-01-2014, 08:10 PM   #10
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Our take.

If you are highly accurate with your decision making while buying DVC you can save a little money. It takes roughly 8-10 years to break even - that is if you accurately purchased.

It works best for routine goers. Flexibility is NOT a strong point for DVC.

For example, we know that we will be going the same week in Jan each year. So we could buy the exact number of points we need for the resort we want and under those conditions we definitely save (especially if you leverage the DVC discounts ... for season passes for example). We can book 11 months out so it works.
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Old 08-01-2014, 09:26 PM   #11
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I've spent a lot of time researching DVC (I am DVC curious, after all) and to me it doesn't make a lot of financial sense at current resale prices.

You can rent points for $15 with no more commitment. Annual Dues are like $6. So on an annual basis it costs you $9 more to rent than to own.

Resale is like $80 for AKL, BWV, WL, SSR. You could get OKW for $70 or pay $100 for BLT and BCV. So let's go with the middle ground and say $81 per point to buy.

If you spend $9 more to rent points than to own and pay dues but it costs you $81 up front, you can see that your break even is 9 years ($81 + $6*9 years = $15 * 9 years).

To me that's a pretty long break even. Considering DVC has some downsides (decreased flexibility of where you want to stay, no free dining, can only use the DVC quiet pools) and some upsides (cheap annual passes, additional FP+s, free DVD rentals) you can call those a wash.


So to me you're looking at a 9 year break even and that's just too long.

That's why I'm DVCcurious and not DVCcommitted. When resale prices drop to $54 and the break even is 6 years it will be something for me to consider. Yes I realize that may never happen, and I'm OK with that. Because now I have the ability to stay at a moderate or value to save money or I can splurge on a deluxe. I have options and that is important to me.
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Old 08-01-2014, 10:08 PM   #12
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Considering DVC has some downsides (. . . can only use the DVC quiet pools . . .)
This statement is not correct. DVC members can use any of the pools at the resort they are staying. For example, guests staying at Beach Club Villas can use Stormalong Bay in addition to the leisure pool at BCV.
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Old 08-01-2014, 10:42 PM   #13
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DVC is also allowed to pool hop to most resort pools subject to minor restrictions. This might be a nice perk if you love to hang out around the pools.

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Old 08-01-2014, 10:44 PM   #14
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This statement is not correct. DVC members can use any of the pools at the resort they are staying. For example, guests staying at Beach Club Villas can use Stormalong Bay in addition to the leisure pool at BCV.
If staying at GCV you can not pool hop to the other two hotels
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Old 08-02-2014, 01:36 AM   #15
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DVC is not for everyone and not everyone save money with it.
For example, I bought it to upgrade my accommodations, rather than to save money. Before DVC I Always stayed at Value or offsite, now I can stay in much better hotels in much better locations for around the same money or slightly more. Having to book far in advance is not a problem, I already did it to get the best rates on intercontinental flights, and I am very flexible with travel dates, so I can take advantage of lower point seasons.
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