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Old 12-03-2010, 07:25 AM   #1111
eliza61

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Quote:
Originally Posted by CapnZach View Post
Re-read what I said. My comment was related to the quality of the theme. This theme looks as well-done as I expect from Disney. Whether you like the theme or not, doesn't mean it isn't well done (see: Dino-Rama).

No one has any idea what will fill these spaces, not even Disney it seems. They are building a themed "shell", that is all that has been revealed. It seems like a modest upgrade to the "shell" of PI from the concept art/description. PI was only good because of a few excellent tenants. If Disney can install/attract equally good tenants, it should be good. If they fill them with generic crap, it won't.

I hope they attract/install good tenants. Maybe a revamped AC, maybe something new. If it is 80% crap / 20% gold, it will maintain about the same ratio of Pleasure Island and I won't be disappointed.



Sounds like you just hate the concept of DTD in general. That's fair, but it isn't fair to:
1) Dump on this new plan based on assumptions of what tenants will be (because no one knows);
2) Dump on the plan because you don't like the idea of a shopping district in general. In that case, no plan would satisfy you.
3) Dump on the plan because you don't like merchandising across the resort as a whole. That has nothing to do with this proposal.


It is as simple as this. All we know so far is 1) the area will be re-themed to a dockside area in the dawn of electricity, similar to a waterfront version of the original Main St concept in Paris, 2) they are not entirely leaving contents up to third parties, 3) they are changing the use from exclusively night clubs to a mix of retail/dining with claims to keep entertainment options.

I'm happy with 1 and 2, and while I think the stuff in 3 is already oversaturated, I'm willing to reserve my criticism until I know what the contents will actually be. Then again, this is the internet - what would it be without baseless complaints?
No actually I think DTD is good at what it is designed for. It's a mall.

My assumptions are based on the article I read from a link here.
http://disneyparks.disney.go.com/blo...wntown-disney/

So let's see in this article it says
1) they are expanding Lego land. Ooooh, how original, let's take a store and make it bigger.

2) they are expanding the AMC movie theater. oh it will have a "concession stand of the future" Really dude, a concession stand gets you excited?

Direct quote from the article.
stylish boutiques and innovative restaurants will draw you in and by night, thousands of lights will transform the area into an electric wonderland.

humm lets see "boutiques, boutiques" why yes that means stores. Oh sorry its stores with thousands of lights. I'm simply trying to find the "new, innovative, entertaining" part of this.

I use to love shopping at disney, most stores where different. anyone remember the Villans store in H.S.? You could get some cool "villans" stuff there with like actually disney villians. I was there last August, 99% of the store (or I should say 1/2 of a store because the front part sells candy now) was Hannah montanna stuff and the nightmare before Xmas. Really, when did Hannah montanna become a villian? You own the rights to some great cartoon villians and your imagination can only come up with HM? And I'm unfairly dumping on the mouse. Gimme a break.

Sorry it isn't about dumping on anything. Just Don't pee on my leg and tell me it's rainwater. It's pretty much like screaming "solid gold watch" for $5.00 bucks and ending up with a watch only worth 5 bucks.

Let's look at the last new thing they brought to DTD. Oh that was T-Rex, which is a rainforest cafe but with dinosaurs. literally. The same menu except now it has prehistoric names.

Sorry from the article I linked this is 2nd rate, HGTV reality show quality.

I will totally agree with you that no one knows for sure what will end up there. I'll be praying to the amusement Gods and maybe the Greek god Hyperion himself that it's a lot better than that article makes it.
I know if I was a Greek God I'd be pretty pissed if this was the best the could come up with.

I totally agree that it could be my perception. I like "Different". Even when it's some thing that may not be my personal cup of tea. I'm not a big video game gal but I do think Disneyquest is great. It is exciting and imaginative, the elevator ride with Genie, that's different. Like I said what the heck is so exciting about a movie theater?
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Last edited by eliza61; 12-03-2010 at 08:09 AM.
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Old 12-03-2010, 09:39 AM   #1112
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Sorry to rain on everyone's parade, but word is HW will be 100% third party. Not even keeping the walk-up bars/popcorn stands Disney-operated. So unless Disney has agreed to sell the concepts relating to the AdvClub (which seems out of character for them), no AdvClub in HW.

To say nothing of the fact half the building is contaminated with mold.
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Old 12-03-2010, 10:56 AM   #1113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eliza61 View Post
I use to love shopping at disney, most stores where different. anyone remember the Villans store in H.S.? You could get some cool "villans" stuff there with like actually disney villians. I was there last August, 99% of the store (or I should say 1/2 of a store because the front part sells candy now) was Hannah montanna stuff and the nightmare before Xmas. Really, when did Hannah montanna become a villian?
She may not be a villain, but she may very well be the scariest character in the Disney arsenal.

I am reserving judgment until I see the finished product, but I am not excited.
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Old 12-03-2010, 11:28 AM   #1114
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Originally Posted by DVC_Chris View Post
She may not be a villain, but she may very well be the scariest character in the Disney arsenal.

I am reserving judgment until I see the finished product, but I am not excited.
LOL

You summed it up nicely Chris.
I definitely hope the finish product is great but from the information released I fail to see what is imaginative or exciting about the place.
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Old 12-03-2010, 12:31 PM   #1115
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@Eliza

All of the things you are complaining about seem like existing parts of Downtown Disney that were just included in the press release because HW has NOTHING lined up, so they included other DTD details to add meat. It isn't like they are replacing any of PI with an AMC theater or a Lego store: these are just minor plussings of existing DTD stores, nothing to do with the HW re-do.

As for details, it doesn't sound mind blowing, but it sounds like an upgrade to the existing PI theme. The light thing could be cool - it sounds like they are investing a ton in it and I'm assuming they wouldn't pour millions into lighting effects if those effects really didn't create an interesting show element. Regardless of the theme, it will all come down to what goes in there. Nothing announced so far indicates that.

When it comes down to it, we are replacing a modestly themed night club district with a seemingly better themed retail area. Some people, myself included, would rather have night clubs, but that ship has sailed and it doesn't really have any bearing on the final quality of the replacement other than sour grapes.
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Old 12-03-2010, 12:40 PM   #1116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CapnZach View Post
@Eliza

All of the things you are complaining about seem like existing parts of Downtown Disney that were just included in the press release because HW has NOTHING lined up, so they included other DTD details to add meat. It isn't like they are replacing any of PI with an AMC theater or a Lego store: these are just minor plussings of existing DTD stores, nothing to do with the HW re-do.

As for details, it doesn't sound mind blowing, but it sounds like an upgrade to the existing PI theme. The light thing could be cool - it sounds like they are investing a ton in it and I'm assuming they wouldn't pour millions into lighting effects if those effects really didn't create an interesting show element. Regardless of the theme, it will all come down to what goes in there. Nothing announced so far indicates that.

When it comes down to it, we are replacing a modestly themed night club district with a seemingly better themed retail area. Some people, myself included, would rather have night clubs, but that ship has sailed and it doesn't really have any bearing on the final quality of the replacement other than sour grapes.
Like I said, I'm just commenting on what has been released to the press.

Will it be better than what's there now? 100% most definitely but basically you could put a foot locker there now and it would be an improvement. Is that the standard we now find acceptable? I guess my bar for Disney is a bit higher.
Yep, I totall admit when I think of Disney I would like a little "mind blowing". My bad, I will adjust my expectations accordingly.
I don't necessarily need a night club . I just stating from the information made available so far to the public (and that's all I have to go on).
I linked the entire press release, so I'm not commenting on one aspect. pretty much the press release hyped those items.

So once again I ask, exactly what was there mentioned that was "entertaining or imaginative". Not my words dude, those are Disney's words.

So I'm commenting on the information that DISNEY has released.

So all I'm saying is that, from what they have told the general public, unless you have some insider information that leads you to believe otherwise, I still see the Cherry Hill mall with laser lights. Not saying that is bad for everyone but I will say it's pretty unimaginative, boring and routine IMO.


Did I miss another report, story or link? the only one I read was on the Disney site.

So, all I can do is wait until more information is released and hope for the best.
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Last edited by eliza61; 12-03-2010 at 12:55 PM.
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Old 12-03-2010, 06:44 PM   #1117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CapnZach View Post
As for details, it doesn't sound mind blowing, but it sounds like an upgrade to the existing PI theme. When it comes down to it, we are replacing a modestly themed night club district with a seemingly better themed retail area.
I concede that it's an upgrade to the current Pleasure Island which is a bunch of dead buildings with tumbleweeds blowing across the walkways at times. But to say it's an upgrade to Pleasure Island during its heyday is without basis. PI was heavily themed and highly popular. It's only when one cutback after another caused it to wither away did PI cease to be a magical place.

Do you remember PI during the times they themed and advertised it?
http://savepleasureisland.blogspot.c...mmercials.html

BobK/Orlando
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Old 12-04-2010, 08:07 AM   #1118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KINGBOBOFTHENORTH View Post
I concede that it's an upgrade to the current Pleasure Island which is a bunch of dead buildings with tumbleweeds blowing across the walkways at times. But to say it's an upgrade to Pleasure Island during its heyday is without basis. PI was heavily themed and highly popular. It's only when one cutback after another caused it to wither away did PI cease to be a magical place.

Do you remember PI during the times they themed and advertised it?
http://savepleasureisland.blogspot.c...mmercials.html

BobK/Orlando

I think in that lies one of the big problems. Those of us who have been Visiting WDW regularly for the past 15 years or longer know what it used to be. They marketed to everyone, and tried to show everyone a good time. I remember getting paper surveys from the cast memebers in the parking lot for MK. At the time I was there with my parents for our first trip in about 7 years, the last trip they paid my way on. I remeber my father being very impressed with the fact that they would hand out surveys and give you a pencil to fill it out with as well.

Back on topic. back in the 90s they advertised the heck out of PI it was packed in the street and in the clubs. Then they stopped really advertising the clubs and started concentrating on the shops. People who were not regulars or just started going in the late 90s simply did not understand what was available for entertainment in there. PI like anything else needed investment, updtaes and advertising that it was not getting.

I am now scared this is a foreshadow for the whole WDW property.

I now have my own family, but my parents would have almost always come with us so we could go out at night if there was a reason. I have certainly stopped going as much since the closure of PI.
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Old 12-04-2010, 11:23 AM   #1119
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@King - I'm not commenting on the interior of clubs, merely the exterior which is all that has been announced. Pretty hard to say based strictly on art. No story out, etc. I'm probably being too optimistic, but from what I've seen, they are taking the original warehouse district theme and plussing it w/ light shows/effects. Sounds lame at first, and certainly could be. Word from reliable sources is that the the investment in this will be heavy enough to make something interesting.

This doesn't address the excellent story that the island started with, or the excellent theming in even the weakest clubs. That video focuses mostly on the interior of the clubs, which is a wait and see at this point.

@Olds - surveys are just as prevalent today, though electronic. Agreed that advertising dropped off for PI, but it still got regular rotation on resort tv, just no outside ads that I remember seeing. Apparently that resort tv ad didn't bring many people in.
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Old 12-04-2010, 06:35 PM   #1120
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This doesn't address the excellent story that the island started with
This is possibly the most worrying part about HW...... what is the story behind it? has it even got a story?

my guess is that if its (nearly) all 3rd party, completely unrelated, then its not going to have a theme - and so I dont see how AC can fit into it?
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Old 12-05-2010, 02:03 PM   #1121
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This is possibly the most worrying part about HW...... what is the story behind it? has it even got a story?

my guess is that if its (nearly) all 3rd party, completely unrelated, then its not going to have a theme - and so I dont see how AC can fit into it?
PI was awesome because they had a story for every original building. I think this is more of a "meta" theme. It is a wharf/dock area in the 1920's, the height of the "electric age". It reminds me very much of an updated take on the original plans for DLP's main street. See these articles at Disney and More for more info:

http://disneyandmore.blogspot.com/20...-draft-and.htm (story details)

http://disneyandmore.blogspot.com/20...-was-main.html (artwork)

I am HOPING that things go in this direction. I think an AC could easily fit here, probably better than it did in the modern day setting of PI.
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Old 12-15-2010, 07:43 PM   #1122
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The demolition of Motion and Rock'n'Roll Beach Club has begun!

BobK/Orlando
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Old 12-23-2010, 02:16 PM   #1123
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Sorry if someone mentioned this.. but does anyone suppose that "Hyperion Wharf" could be home to a "Wonderful World of Color" evening show.. as is the case out west at DLR?

?
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Old 12-23-2010, 02:37 PM   #1124
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Most believe it is doubtful they would put a show of that magnitude without requiring admission. In addition, the effect on transportation and the wildlife has to be taken into account.

I'll add that Disney Legend Bob Gurr spent some time walking through DTD. In my time with him, PI was brought up a few times, but he didn't seem overly receptive to the original concept to begin with, so I certainly wouldn't say he is in the "PI court." His words were:
"I started in the marketplace and walked through DTD. The further I went, the worse it got. By the time I got to the West Side, I said to myself, 'THIS is Disney quality? it looks like a rundown shopping mall'"

There you have it folks, a Disney Legend who worked with Walt himself and understands the core of what Disney should be. I just thought I'd share that.
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Old 12-23-2010, 02:37 PM   #1125
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Quote:
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I concede that it's an upgrade to the current Pleasure Island which is a bunch of dead buildings with tumbleweeds blowing across the walkways at times.
Did you have to pay extra to see the tumbleweeds? Is there a schedule they perform by or just random showings?

Seeing that would have been sweet.

I hear if you hit it at just the right time and day you can see slightly used traffic cones and you can take all the flash photos you want.
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