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Old 11-22-2010, 12:29 AM   #1096
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Originally Posted by TisBit View Post
and AC had serious overcrowding issues....with a bigger venue two bars, etc it would have made a killing.
Actually AC had THREE bars. The main bar downstairs, the one in the library, and there was also a bar upstairs. The bar upstairs remained closed in the later years. (If you count the outside bar, they actually had four bars!!)
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Old 11-23-2010, 12:50 AM   #1097
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seems both universal and duffy the bear are finally catching on to how going to Universal is the answer if you fancy a beer and some fun!

http://orlandoparksnews.blogspot.com...to-update.html
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Old 11-30-2010, 09:11 PM   #1098
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The End Is Near

Demolition walls are up surrounding Rock'n'Roll Beach Club and Motion.
Photos at: www.savepleasureisland.blogspot.com

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Old 12-01-2010, 11:15 PM   #1099
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As you can tell from my avatar I'm obviously an AC fan, but ragging on this because it is a shopping center seems foolish. Downtown disney is a retail center. That included the original PI (food service/night clubs are essentially different facets of retail). They wouldn't install attractions at a free center, so what, should it be themed office space?

Since Disney decided they didn't like being in the night club business, that meant by default it would be restaurant/retail space. There is no indication that this project forbids the inclusion of night clubs or entertainment venues, this is just a re-theming of the area. AC is not going to come back, and it will never be an adult's only type venue. They tried that, it mostly failed, they are going in a new direction.

The new theme seems on par with any other quality Disney themed experience from the concept art/description. It just depends on how they fill it. Will it be the Main Street USA of Magic Shops and Penny Arcades or the Main Street USA of a never-ending Emporium? Only time will tell. But regardless, the mega-Emporium may be a negative trend in my book, but it doesn't diminish the quality of the overall land. Let's give Disney a chance to see what they can come up with and what they can attract before we tear it down.
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Old 12-01-2010, 11:26 PM   #1100
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Let's not beat around the bush here....the plans are embarassing


They are resorting the the tricks that they alledgedly "detested" from the day disneyland opened:

cheap knockoff tourist traps that suck people away from their parks.

now they just throw themed, dime-a-dozen, outsourced retail locations up...only now they put them on their land, charge a percentage, and wash their hands of it.

I'm not at all surprised or disappointed...you have to know that this was going to be the case.

seriously...why not just put a chuck e cheese and a panera in and be done with it?
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Old 12-02-2010, 10:54 AM   #1101
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Orlando Attractions Magazine reports this morning in the first episode of their "Orlando Attractions Magazine: The Show" of “a rumor on good authority” (apparently from the director of Disney Cruise Line) that the Adventurer’s Club will be a part of Hyperion Wharf. Take that for what it's worth.
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Old 12-02-2010, 10:57 AM   #1102
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Originally Posted by CapnZach View Post
........Since Disney decided they didn't like being in the night club business, that meant by default it would be restaurant/retail space. There is no indication that this project forbids the inclusion of night clubs or entertainment venues, this is just a re-theming of the area. AC is not going to come back, and it will never be an adult's only type venue. They tried that, it mostly failed, they are going in a new direction. ......
I disagree that we can say PI failed(or am I reading your statement wrong). If it was a failure it never would have lasted 20 years. I belive a more accurate statement is that mis-management and lack of investment caused a steady decline that resulted in failure.

I have accepted the fact that PI is gone forever. However, this new Vision is pyrite compared to the gold that PI was when it had proper attention payed to it.
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Old 12-02-2010, 10:59 AM   #1103
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...(apparently from the director of Disney Cruise Line)...
= boat captain?
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Old 12-02-2010, 11:02 AM   #1104
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= boat captain?
director could be open to interpretation. If by director they mean VP, that's carl holtz, who used to be head of DTD when PI was thriving. He has a good reputation among long time PI CMs
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Old 12-02-2010, 12:40 PM   #1105
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Originally Posted by OldsDr View Post
I disagree that we can say PI failed(or am I reading your statement wrong). If it was a failure it never would have lasted 20 years. I belive a more accurate statement is that mis-management and lack of investment caused a steady decline that resulted in failure.

I have accepted the fact that PI is gone forever. However, this new Vision is pyrite compared to the gold that PI was when it had proper attention payed to it.
I think you're generally right. PI as a concept could have remained as successful as it was originally, but for whatever reason it wasn't. If PI had been packing in crowds, I doubt Disney would have pulled the plug like they did. I know a lot of people claim Disney wanted it to fail and mismanaged it for that reason. I doubt anyone can prove this either way so no point arguing about it. At the end, for several years, PI attendance had been very low. Disney could have either refurbished it or relaunched it. They figured they could make more money on a mix of 1st and 3rd party retail/restaurants than on running night clubs, so they closed it.

Personally I never cared for any club outside of AC. Most were bland. It was a collection of spaces you could see any virtually any city, just as bland as retail in my opinion. My only hopes are that:
1) Hyperion remains focused on being an entertainment district to some degree [it seems like this is the case based on what we've been told]
2) Disney provides enough innovative 1st party offerings to make up for any bland 3rd party stuff, and
3)they truly invest in making this a Disney quality themed space. Regardless of what you think of the design, based on the budgets being quoted, it seems like they are really putting in the effort to make it a neat space.

It will no longer be a paean to entertainment/night life, but as long as they focus on making it an entertaining place to be, not merely a lifeless outdoor mall like much of the rest of DTD, and I'd be fine with it. All I'm saying is, it is too early to prejudge. The plans are like showing a model of Adventureland with no rides. It looks good, but the final quality will be judged by whether you put in more Pirates quality attractions or Tiki Under New Management quality attractions. None of that has been announced yet (probably because it has yet to be decided, other than perhaps the Mahogany Bay concept), so I'll reserve judgment until then.
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Old 12-02-2010, 06:12 PM   #1106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CapnZach View Post
As you can tell from my avatar I'm obviously an AC fan, but ragging on this because it is a shopping center seems foolish. Downtown disney is a retail center. That included the original PI (food service/night clubs are essentially different facets of retail). They wouldn't install attractions at a free center, so what, should it be themed office space?

The new theme seems on par with any other quality Disney themed experience from the concept art/description. It just depends on how they fill it. Will it be the Main Street USA of Magic Shops and Penny Arcades or the Main Street USA of a never-ending Emporium? Only time will tell. But regardless, the mega-Emporium may be a negative trend in my book, but it doesn't diminish the quality of the overall land. Let's give Disney a chance to see what they can come up with and what they can attract before we tear it down.

Sorry captn, I guess we differ on the definition of quality. These shops will probably carry the same generic junk that you can find outside the parks. The problem most people have is we have been seeing what disney has been coming up and its about as imaginative as oatmeal. Look at the merchandise they sell, every store pretty much the same (enough with the Hannah montanna disney, please), tee shirts and sweatshirts all have the same 2009, 2010 20XXX design (note to disney: we know what year it is enough already)



Quote:
Originally Posted by lockedoutlogic View Post
Let's not beat around the bush here....the plans are embarassing


They are resorting the the tricks that they alledgedly "detested" from the day disneyland opened:

cheap knockoff tourist traps that suck people away from their parks.

now they just throw themed, dime-a-dozen, outsourced retail locations up...only now they put them on their land, charge a percentage, and wash their hands of it.

I'm not at all surprised or disappointed...you have to know that this was going to be the case.

seriously...why not just put a chuck e cheese and a panera in and be done with it?

throw in a Walmart and there you go.

I wish they'd stop calling it an "attraction". It's not an attraction, it's a mall. a mall with colored lights at night. I went back and looked at the plans, they have an AMC movie theater. Oh goody, a multiplex. How original, why that's really "disneyish". My older son works part time at AMC, wonder if our free movie pass is good in Orlando
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Last edited by eliza61; 12-02-2010 at 06:20 PM.
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Old 12-02-2010, 06:43 PM   #1107
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Great post eliza!
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Old 12-02-2010, 09:47 PM   #1108
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Sorry captn, I guess we differ on the definition of quality. These shops will probably carry the same generic junk that you can find outside the parks.
Re-read what I said. My comment was related to the quality of the theme. This theme looks as well-done as I expect from Disney. Whether you like the theme or not, doesn't mean it isn't well done (see: Dino-Rama).

No one has any idea what will fill these spaces, not even Disney it seems. They are building a themed "shell", that is all that has been revealed. It seems like a modest upgrade to the "shell" of PI from the concept art/description. PI was only good because of a few excellent tenants. If Disney can install/attract equally good tenants, it should be good. If they fill them with generic crap, it won't.

I hope they attract/install good tenants. Maybe a revamped AC, maybe something new. If it is 80% crap / 20% gold, it will maintain about the same ratio of Pleasure Island and I won't be disappointed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eliza61 View Post
The problem most people have is we have been seeing what disney has been coming up and its about as imaginative as oatmeal. Look at the merchandise they sell, every store pretty much the same (enough with the Hannah montanna disney, please), tee shirts and sweatshirts all have the same 2009, 2010 20XXX design (note to disney: we know what year it is enough already)
Except for more gift shops at the end of new attractions, I personally don't think Disney merchandising has really changed much. The year designs have been at the resort for at least 20 years by my memory. Merchandise on whatever the popular property is at the time has always been there.

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Originally Posted by eliza61 View Post
I wish they'd stop calling it an "attraction". It's not an attraction, it's a mall. a mall with colored lights at night. I went back and looked at the plans, they have an AMC movie theater. Oh goody, a multiplex. How original, why that's really "disneyish". My older son works part time at AMC, wonder if our free movie pass is good in Orlando
Sounds like you just hate the concept of DTD in general. That's fair, but it isn't fair to:
1) Dump on this new plan based on assumptions of what tenants will be (because no one knows);
2) Dump on the plan because you don't like the idea of a shopping district in general. In that case, no plan would satisfy you.
3) Dump on the plan because you don't like merchandising across the resort as a whole. That has nothing to do with this proposal.

Right now everyone I see complaining about the proposal is just projecting problems with it that could not possibly be addressed in a simple concept to re-theme the area.

It is as simple as this. All we know so far is 1) the area will be re-themed to a dockside area in the dawn of electricity, similar to a waterfront version of the original Main St concept in Paris, 2) they are not entirely leaving contents up to third parties, 3) they are changing the use from exclusively night clubs to a mix of retail/dining with claims to keep entertainment options.

I'm happy with 1 and 2, and while I think the stuff in 3 is already oversaturated, I'm willing to reserve my criticism until I know what the contents will actually be. Then again, this is the internet - what would it be without baseless complaints?
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Old 12-02-2010, 10:50 PM   #1109
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I agree with you that its a little early to judge the concept given the tiny amount of information we have gotten. I would point out that most of Citywalk is 3rd party spots and not original concepts. So potential is there to be good, bad or mediocre. Of course, people on Disney forums never seem to be happy without SOMETHING to complain about, so the judgements will occur.

Now, I will disagree with you on Merchandising. I think most people's issues is that there has been a lot of homogenization in the merchandising department. Many of the unique items only found at one or two locations are gone.... For the most part, you can buy the same thing anywhere on property.... I could live with that IF the unique merchandise was still a part of it, but its just really not anymore. The same thing has happened at most of the Disney owned restaurants as well.... Menus have shrunk and the unique meals are all but gone with the exception of a few places (mostly signature restaurants although the homogenization exists there too).

It's designed to save money, pure and simple vs raising ticket prices or lowering net profit expectations but it takes away from some of the magic... in a different way than the branding that Iger is obsessed with (hence the lack of original attractions such as PoTC, Haunted Mansion, etc that aren't based on franchises). It is what it is... I guess the survey question becomes, would you rather have the magic and pay more, or take a hit in the magic department and pay less... since Disney won't change the profit expectations if they can help it. Personally, I'd rather pay a little more, but obviously Disney doesn't think that's the way to go... or they are too lazy to do the hard work to do it.

Just my humble opinion.


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Originally Posted by CapnZach View Post
Re-read what I said. My comment was related to the quality of the theme. This theme looks as well-done as I expect from Disney. Whether you like the theme or not, doesn't mean it isn't well done (see: Dino-Rama).

No one has any idea what will fill these spaces, not even Disney it seems. They are building a themed "shell", that is all that has been revealed. It seems like a modest upgrade to the "shell" of PI from the concept art/description. PI was only good because of a few excellent tenants. If Disney can install/attract equally good tenants, it should be good. If they fill them with generic crap, it won't.

I hope they attract/install good tenants. Maybe a revamped AC, maybe something new. If it is 80% crap / 20% gold, it will maintain about the same ratio of Pleasure Island and I won't be disappointed.



Except for more gift shops at the end of new attractions, I personally don't think Disney merchandising has really changed much. The year designs have been at the resort for at least 20 years by my memory. Merchandise on whatever the popular property is at the time has always been there.



Sounds like you just hate the concept of DTD in general. That's fair, but it isn't fair to:
1) Dump on this new plan based on assumptions of what tenants will be (because no one knows);
2) Dump on the plan because you don't like the idea of a shopping district in general. In that case, no plan would satisfy you.
3) Dump on the plan because you don't like merchandising across the resort as a whole. That has nothing to do with this proposal.

Right now everyone I see complaining about the proposal is just projecting problems with it that could not possibly be addressed in a simple concept to re-theme the area.

It is as simple as this. All we know so far is 1) the area will be re-themed to a dockside area in the dawn of electricity, similar to a waterfront version of the original Main St concept in Paris, 2) they are not entirely leaving contents up to third parties, 3) they are changing the use from exclusively night clubs to a mix of retail/dining with claims to keep entertainment options.

I'm happy with 1 and 2, and while I think the stuff in 3 is already oversaturated, I'm willing to reserve my criticism until I know what the contents will actually be. Then again, this is the internet - what would it be without baseless complaints?
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Old 12-02-2010, 11:39 PM   #1110
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No disagreement from me on food - it has gone severely downhill since DDP. Dining used to be one of the things I looked most forward to, but with some exceptions, many of my old favorites have declined.

As for merchandising, just seems like a matter of perspective. I still see theme park and attraction specific stuff mixed in with generic stuff. Unique designs for popular attractions, etc. At least, I did last time I went which is going on a year now, so maybe things have changed.

I do think that the retail mix has gone down drastically. Main Street being the prime example. I miss the magic shop, the penny arcade, the tobacconist, just about every fun place there. I miss the unique stores in Liberty Square, and elsewhere. World Showcase still succeeds at this, but that is because shopping is one of the only things they offer. Downtown Disney had better variety when it was the Village. I think there are too many 1st party vendors, ironically enough.

That said, most of those things have been gone almost 20 years now. If you don't think there is unique stuff made, look at attraction gift shops. They are all geared toward that attraction. There are the ubiquitous mega Emporium style shops at each park, but there remains unique things available to a degree. I'd be interested to get some real data on this, right now it is just opinions.
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