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Old 07-01-2014, 05:45 PM   #61
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It would make the wait equal for all. And that would be fair.
Yes, the wait would be equal for everyone, and also longer for everyone.
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Old 07-01-2014, 05:59 PM   #62
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Yes, the wait would be equal for everyone, and also longer for everyone.
No, if there were at least 2 people in a row, and likely even if there was a skip of one or two abled bodied/capable of using a regular stall people, it would be faster for everyone needing the accessible stall.
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Old 07-01-2014, 06:03 PM   #63
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No, if there were at least 2 people in a row, and likely even if there was a skip of one or two abled bodied/capable of using a regular stall people, it would be faster for everyone needing the accessible stall.
More accessible stalls means fewer stalls overall, which means everyone waits longer.

And no one should feel as though they shouldn't use the accessible stalls. They're not reserved for use by the disabled.
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Old 07-01-2014, 06:39 PM   #64
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<---- Sometimes needs an accessible stall as I said before. This is due to the location of the grab bars (which are often different in the accessible stall versus ones in a "normal" stall due to requirements). I don't look like I need an accessible stall and I don't need them all the time.

I wait in line like every other person and I would not be happy if someone else decided they didn't have to. And I shouldn't have to speak up and say something because no one else needs to hear about my medical issues.

But I don't have a wheelchair or a walker so I guess I don't get to skip the line...
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Old 07-01-2014, 06:42 PM   #65
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There is kind of a double standard, though, isn't there? You can't tell who really needs accommodations on attractions and in lines, and you can't tell who really needs accommodations in bathrooms. However, the general public is so OBSESSED with people with disabilities receiving accommodations they don't believe they really need, that our lives are made miserable by constantly having to justify ourselves, having needed accommodations taken away to appease the angry, vocal able-bodied, being publicly shamed and vilified every time we ask for something that makes us able to do what others do and take for granted, and being grilled by employees about whether we really need the accommodation (and often lied to about whether the accommodation is possible). Yet the same general public has absolutely no problem with abuse of handicapped bathroom access by those who don't need it. (NB - notice that I said above that you can't tell by looking who does or doesn't need it, but A. statistically you know that not everybody who takes the stalls needs them, and B. when people discuss using the stalls they don't feel any need to justify themselves and feel that nobody should ask them to, even though PWD have to justify themselves ALL THE TIME for accommodations.) There are constant threads on the DIS and other boards about how people ought to have to show papers or doctors' notes to use a wheelchair or an alternate entrance, yet nobody ever suggests the same thing for bathrooms. The general consensus of the public seems to be that PWD are doing something wrong by making able-bodied people wait even a few seconds to get on a bus or a ride, but that able-bodied people are doing nothing wrong by making PWD wait for much, much longer times to use the only bathroom stall they're able to use. Let me just repeat for the record that if you're using a handicapped stall because you actually have a physical need for it that can't possibly be accommodated iin any other way, I am not talking about you.
Clap. Clap. Clap. Thank you. I am not "disabled" according to too many people and am the recipient of a number of comments, the nicer ones including fat, lazy, and fake. I had left my scooter outside a rest room at disney one time and used my cane in the line when I was accosted by a woman with a double stroller whi was behind me and informed me that I couldn't use the handicapped stall because she needed the space for her kids and I wasn't "crippled" so I could use any stall. She actually shoved me aside so she could get into it ahead of me.
There is an evil part of me that would like to see her try to survive in my body for 24 hours.
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Old 07-01-2014, 07:18 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by LilyWDW View Post
<---- Sometimes needs an accessible stall as I said before. This is due to the location of the grab bars (which are often different in the accessible stall versus ones in a "normal" stall due to requirements). I don't look like I need an accessible stall and I don't need them all the time.

I wait in line like every other person and I would not be happy if someone else decided they didn't have to. And I shouldn't have to speak up and say something because no one else needs to hear about my medical issues.

But I don't have a wheelchair or a walker so I guess I don't get to skip the line...
NOBODY IS GETTING TO SKIP THE FREAKING LINE!! Nobody is changing any rules to allow line skipping! Nobody is getting any medals for degree of disability. Please, people, get a grip.

I leave my ECV outside. I don't usually take my cane with my ECV. It's more hassle than help. I "look normal", your average, somewhat overweight American. There's a lot wrong with me. There might be a lot wrong with a lot of people in line. Not my business or my concern. In the bathroom, my immediate concern? Peeing, usually, as I have problems with urinary urgency. I'm old. It happens to some of us. Thankfully, I can make do with a regular stall, so I don't have to fight that battle. LilyWDW, I wait just like you. SO DOES EVERYONE ELSE!

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Clap. Clap. Clap. Thank you. I am not "disabled" according to too many people and am the recipient of a number of comments, the nicer ones including fat, lazy, and fake. I had left my scooter outside a rest room at disney one time and used my cane in the line when I was accosted by a woman with a double stroller whi was behind me and informed me that I couldn't use the handicapped stall because she needed the space for her kids and I wasn't "crippled" so I could use any stall. She actually shoved me aside so she could get into it ahead of me.
There is an evil part of me that would like to see her try to survive in my body for 24 hours.
I'm so sorry that this happened to you. If I had been there, I'm afraid we might have found out how little strength I have left.

I'm turning into someone I didn't ever think I'd be.. I've always confronted what I perceived to be injustice, and tried to be kind to others, but I've never been so likely to actually fight back as I am now, and so least able to defend myself. It takes every ounce of restraint I have sometimes to keep from getting myself in situations I know I can't get out of. I'm just so tired of this perception that we're getting away with something when the reality for so many of us is so far from the truth.

As I type this, I look at the knuckles at the base of my fingers on my right hand, making my hand look a bit like a half of a baseball has been inserted into my hand where the fingers attach. Yep, that's a privilege, and I still work on a computer doing data analysis in pharmaceutical research. Fun times. I can't go without income for the 2 - 3 years it will take me to qualify for disability, so I keep trying to work till my fingers literally stop working.
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I look perfectly healthy, but I MUST use a scooter/ECV. I won't run into you unless you complain about it.
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Old 07-01-2014, 08:09 PM   #67
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I think what able bodied people don't get is that any of us would LOVE to be in their shoes. I remember hiking part of the application trail. I rock climbed, rappelled, taught archery, canoed, did medieval armored foot combat...., now I am happy if I can get through the grocery store and back to the car without needing to rest. If I could have my pre-fibro, pre arthritis pre LASIK body back I would be happy to cross my legs and wait for the people with kids to go in front of me and wouldn't have to worry about getting off the pot, or falling while trying to sit on it!!
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NOBODY IS GETTING TO SKIP THE FREAKING LINE!! Nobody is changing any rules to allow line skipping! Nobody is getting any medals for degree of disability. Please, people, get a grip. I leave my ECV outside. I don't usually take my cane with my ECV. It's more hassle than help. I "look normal", your average, somewhat overweight American. There's a lot wrong with me. There might be a lot wrong with a lot of people in line. Not my business or my concern. In the bathroom, my immediate concern? Peeing, usually, as I have problems with urinary urgency. I'm old. It happens to some of us. Thankfully, I can make do with a regular stall, so I don't have to fight that battle. LilyWDW, I wait just like you. SO DOES EVERYONE ELSE! I'm so sorry that this happened to you. If I had been there, I'm afraid we might have found out how little strength I have left. I'm turning into someone I didn't ever think I'd be.. I've always confronted what I perceived to be injustice, and tried to be kind to others, but I've never been so likely to actually fight back as I am now, and so least able to defend myself. It takes every ounce of restraint I have sometimes to keep from getting myself in situations I know I can't get out of. I'm just so tired of this perception that we're getting away with something when the reality for so many of us is so far from the truth. As I type this, I look at the knuckles at the base of my fingers on my right hand, making my hand look a bit like a half of a baseball has been inserted into my hand where the fingers attach. Yep, that's a privilege, and I still work on a computer doing data analysis in pharmaceutical research. Fun times. I can't go without income for the 2 - 3 years it will take me to qualify for disability, so I keep trying to work till my fingers literally stop working.
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Old 07-01-2014, 10:32 PM   #68
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I don't even understand how this morphed into a waiting thread.

The more interesting thing I've seen in this thread is the judgement from EVERYONE - disabled, non disabled...

If someone doesn't want to be judged for their scooter, let's not judge someone else coming out of the handicap stall with 2 kids who look perfectly normal. If you don't want to be judged for using the handicap stall when you need the grab bars, let's not judge the person with a can or double stroller doing the same.

Definitely getting the vibe that people who don't want to be judged have no problem passing judgement on others.

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It sure would if there we're say 10 people in line and 3 needed accessible stalls. It would make the wait equal for all. And that would be fair.
We will just have to agree to disagree. I don't think you're fully grasping what I was saying.
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Old 07-01-2014, 11:10 PM   #69
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All I can say is if you are paralyzed and don't have the ability to stand you have no other choice but the wheelchair accessible stall or companion bathroom. My girls have a stoma called a mitrofanoff they stick a catheter in one has hers next to her belly button and the other on her right side if the stall doors were wide enough they could roll in and it wouldn't be a problem if the door could shut since you can't see anything but their chairs won't fit in the door.

If you can stand and walk you can use them all.
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Old 07-02-2014, 01:30 AM   #70
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DW and I went to a restaurant today. The bathroom had two stalls, with the non accessible stall occupied. Should she have waited for it in the event a PWD came in while both stalls were occupied?
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Old 07-02-2014, 06:48 AM   #71
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DW and I went to a restaurant today. The bathroom had two stalls, with the non accessible stall occupied. Should she have waited for it in the event a PWD came in while both stalls were occupied?
No.
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Old 07-02-2014, 06:56 AM   #72
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I firmly believe that if there are 15 or 20 stalls, mostly empty, and only 1 handicap stall, then those who are able to use the regular stalls should do so. There. I've said it. Flame away. It is so frustrating , waiting for the only accessable stall, while all the rest sit empty. And yes, I have had toileting issues (use your imagination) while someone took their jolly sweet time, applying makeup, fixing their hair, and using the stall like their own personal bathroom in their home, while I waited outside with my wheelchair. I knocked, of course, and just as I could see them through the crack in the door, they could see me and realized my needs, but I guess their needs were more important. Some will never understand until they experience that kind of frustration.
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Old 07-02-2014, 07:41 AM   #73
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I firmly believe that if there are 15 or 20 stalls, mostly empty, and only 1 handicap stall, then those who are able to use the regular stalls should do so. There. I've said it. Flame away. It is so frustrating , waiting for the only accessable stall, while all the rest sit empty. And yes, I have had toileting issues (use your imagination) while someone took their jolly sweet time, applying makeup, fixing their hair, and using the stall like their own personal bathroom in their home, while I waited outside with my wheelchair. I knocked, of course, and just as I could see them through the crack in the door, they could see me and realized my needs, but I guess their needs were more important. Some will never understand until they experience that kind of frustration.
I agree with you that if there are a bunch of open stalls then people who don't need the handicapped accessible stall shouldn't use it.

However, most of these posts are discussing what to do if there is a line and ALL stalls are consistently being used. If there is a line of 20 people waiting, why should the handicapped stall be left empty? It's actually going to cause the person needing the handicapped stall to wait longer, as most public restrooms become hard to move through when you have a line and people trying to get to the sinks to wash there hands, therefore not leaving enough room for someone in a wheelchair to maneuver past the crowd to the open handicapped stall. Someone not using a mobility device would have better luck getting to the stall, but how would you know if they needed it or not?
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Old 07-02-2014, 09:28 AM   #74
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I firmly believe that if there are 15 or 20 stalls, mostly empty, and only 1 handicap stall, then those who are able to use the regular stalls should do so. There. I've said it. Flame away. It is so frustrating , waiting for the only accessable stall, while all the rest sit empty. And yes, I have had toileting issues (use your imagination) while someone took their jolly sweet time, applying makeup, fixing their hair, and using the stall like their own personal bathroom in their home, while I waited outside with my wheelchair. I knocked, of course, and just as I could see them through the crack in the door, they could see me and realized my needs, but I guess their needs were more important. Some will never understand until they experience that kind of frustration.
I don't think anyone is disagreeing with that. If you CAN use a normal stall and there are some available, then use it.

But if the only stall available is the handicap stall, it doesn't need to sit empty in case someone with a disability comes along and needs to use it. It's not STRICTLY for handicap people is essentially what this thread is about. But of course, common courtesy goes a long way, and I really don't think anyone in this thread would use a handicap stall with other stalls available just for some extra space and a mirror.
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Old 07-02-2014, 09:42 AM   #75
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I think this thread has run it's course, as this type of thread always does. OP's question has been answered. There is only one line, therefore everyone should wait in the same line regardless of which stall is needed.
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